OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Mid-Summer Break Edition

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ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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I'll say it again. We're gonna breeze into a top 5 pick.

And the Archer trade will go down as an all time bad one.

Love being a fan of a team that keeps a world class manager around.

Can't wait until we sell nothing at the deadline.
 

Empoleon8771

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Love being a fan of a team that keeps a world class manager around.

NH deserves criticism for the trade for sure, but I feel like it's unfair to also knock him for how Archer has performed since the trade. I don't think it's fair to criticize NH for Archer going from a 4.12 ERA and 3.64 FIP player to a 5.40 ERA and 5.66 FIP player. NH deserves criticism for paying the price of a fringe #1/2 pitcher for a fringe #3/4, but I think it's unfair to also knock him for Archer regressing even further.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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I had no interest in even seeing anything more than a half-decent game today with a prayer that we'd luck out and win to end the streak. Last night, the screen on my iPhone stopped working, so I am about to voluntarily spend my Sunday afternoon in the Verizon store.

I hope everybody else has something better to do.

#LuxorBust
 
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Empoleon8771

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I honestly don't get why they're playing Kang to showcase him, dude looks totally spent at this point. Maybe they we're praying that he went back to late June/early July form to get some organization's 17th ranked prospect for him, but it looks pointless by now.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Well for some good news....Hayes with a 2 run HR(7th now) to go with his 24 doubles....developing more power. Cant wait til September to see alll these guys called up and let them get their experience.

Mason Martin continues to stay hot...another 2 RBI game(99 on the year)...another walk. Up tp .262 avg. Now with his 5 HRs 6 doubles 16 RBIs 14 walks in 18 games since being called up. In a tough hitting league. His numbers are already close to matching Swaggerty...who played 80 more games
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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Oneil Cruz promoted to AA. Let the fun begin.

Didnt take long after missing most of year. 20 years old at AA. Thats what you want to see.

Now Dodgers need to help us again this deadline
 

cookthebooks

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they were never going to make the playoffs with that pitching staff and with any kind of josh bell regression to the mean so the worse the better but boy does this stink
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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they were never going to make the playoffs with that pitching staff and with any kind of josh bell regression to the mean so the worse the better but boy does this stink

Does show how important Bell was to this team. With him struggling it killed our offense. And no Polanco either to add power.. Hes more important than given credit for.

Like I said tho...this will be a blessing and 2020 will be much better because of it
 

ImporterExporter

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The problem with Bell, as I've been saying all year, is that the first couple of months was a massive outlier. His entire career up until this spring was that of an average (at best) and generally below average 1B offensively speaking.

Since the AS break he's 9-49 with an .555 OPS

The last 30 days he's 17-85 with an .738 OPS

He's obviously not a sub 600 OPS player but at the same time he's nowhere close to a 1000+ guy either.

People get so caught up in what players do in the present in a vacuum and ignore career averages, splits, etc.

Coming into this year he was a sub .800 OPS guy. Expecting him to maintain a far superior pace to that at age 26, out of the blue, is and was absurd.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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I dont like that we havent moved anyone yet since there are about 6 i want gone...along with the Vazquez/Marte possible trades.

I doubt all are moved in one day. We need to get this started now.
 

ImporterExporter

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I dont like that we havent moved anyone yet since there are about 6 i want gone...along with the Vazquez/Marte possible trades.

I doubt all are moved in one day. We need to get this started now.

Prepare for us to do nothing.

I've heard absolutely nothing on the Bucs. It's alarming but not surprising. Nutting does not want this team to be anything other than mediocre.
 
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JimmyTwoTimes

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Wow, Stroman to the Mets is weird but it probably means Thor is on the move.

They are trying to compete in 2020. Have some good young players and 6 prospects in top 100 who are close to coming up. Tho I'm sure at least a few of those guys will be going to Toronto.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Prepare for us to do nothing.

I've heard absolutely nothing on the Bucs. It's alarming but not surprising. Nutting does not want this team to be anything other than mediocre.

With this losing streak I cant see us not unloading players. Its just gonna take NH to come down on asking price. We want him to get the best returns possible...Im sure thats why he hasnt accepted any offers yet. Because we have received them.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Cody Bolton 6IP 3 H 1ER 3BB 8Ks

On 77 pitches. Could have kept going but PHed for him with 2 men on. 3-1 Altoona in bottom 6.

Theres hope with pitching between Bolton, Marvel, Keller, Priester and plenty of others who have a chance to make an impact if they keep pitching well moving forward. Priester further away of course but Keller, Marvel , and even Bolton should all help in 2020. Need to get Keller/Marvel up now so they can get expediene.

I see Padres calling guys up from AA to get that experience. Still waiting for us to do something like that. During a season thats lost anyway.
 

DJ Spinoza

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We're not even close to the worst team in baseball – we're just on an out of control losing streak.

The season is lost. My attitude is now that the more losses, the better pick we end up with, as well as the better chance Hurdle is dumped, and the better chance we really clean some house and get AAA players some looks. I think Hayes is still going to need to push for an earlier callup than September. He doesn't have a ton of AAA at-bats just yet.

Just have to sit back and see what happens. The worst thing would be flipping Vazquez for a mediocre return. Ruiz + May + Gray or something like that should be the least he does it for. Getting both of May and Gray in the deal would be an old school move, gathering as much pitching as possible, and line things up pretty well with Cruz, Bolton, Swaggerty, but there might be just a bit too much of a gap between some of the guys who have emerged recently. Still not a huge one, but it would make sense to use 2020 to continue rebuilding and gathering some pieces, albeit in a complicated way, because it wouldn't make much sense to gather a couple vet FAs to flip at the deadline, due to the need to play some young guys.

We'll see. I increasingly have the worry that we will simply blame injuries and do nothing. Huntington's other comments today do suggest that he has finally turned a bit of a corner with the approach, but I am worried about 2020 hanging out there, and then we'll always have another 2020 the next year, as a mediocre team (to put it dramatically). As risky as it is, I almost prefer the fuller-blown rebuild of moving Marte as well, because at least that's a clear direction. We don't have one yet and nibbling around the edges won't get us there.

There is a path back to a much better situation in 2020, but it begins with Taillon and Polanco being healthy, and requires us to spend the money on Grandal this winter, and probably a bullpen piece as well. In theory the Vazquez trade stands outside of this orbit, since at least some of the pieces would help out by next year at the latest.

As far as Vazquez goes, I think the Mets getting wild and grabbing Stroman is both a big help and potentially a hurt. Toronto is doing the smart thing and splitting him from Giles, which means Giles may very well be a viable target for Friedman, although apparently Giles now has some injury questions. The Mets are a surprise suitor, so the big help is that this potentially sends the other buyers into a frenzy, especially with the Giants winning again. The Giants could very well just hold tight on everyone and try to win in Bochy's last year. Even if they take a run to the playoffs and lose, they will probably have the good will from the fanbase to endure a longer rebuild, and trading guys now would only initiate what will still be a long rebuild.
 
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