Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VII

[Sinistril]

Context matters.

We have countless examples of underperforming players in Buffalo.

But you don't pay underperforming players based on hypotheticals. You pay them based on performance. Example, Reinhart's new contract.

 

[mathonwy]

But you don't pay underperforming players based on hypotheticals. You pay them based on performance. Example, Reinhart's new contract.

FO either takes accountability for last seasons completely written off season or we’re all ducked when EP and QH eventually bail.

 

[Sinistril]

FO either takes accountability for last seasons completely written off season or we’re all ducked when EP and QH eventually bail.

We're also f***ed if we sign them to overpriced contracts based on hypothetical scenarios that never happened.

 

[mathonwy]

We're also f***ed if we sign them to overpriced contracts based on hypothetical scenarios that never happened.

Are you talking about Tyler Myers and Loui Eriksson?

 

[4Twenty]

So... Players that perform poorly should get contracts based on how they would hypothetically perform in a better scenario? It could be that players like Makar push their teams into being in a better scenario....

Huh? Not sure where you get that. Quinn Hughes put up top 10 dman production on a shitty team. It seems folks like yourself blame him solely for the teams defensive struggles, when really the teams non existent defensive structure makes players look worse.

I think if you flipped Makar and Hughes teams last season their numbers would basically follow, Makar would look incredibly bad defensively and Hughes would have sterling numbers and better insulation in Colorado. I can't believe I have to even explain that.

 

[Breakers]

hearing on the radio, Hughes and co should come before Dahlin

Newport is Dahlin and newport drags out contract negotiations with RFA coming of entry level right up to and even past training camp

 

[F A N]

Hughes is going to get paid for his point production. The team will be paying him for his point production. Canucks fans want him to be on the team because of his ability to generate offense from the back end. Unless there is a similarly aged Dman who can produce offensively like Hughes and defend much better available through trade 1 for 1 Hughes is who we have and we should be happy that we have him.

I don't think some posters realize just how valuable a 60+ point Dman like Hughes and how rare it is for the Canucks to have a Dman like that and for more than 2 seasons.

 

[Sinistril]

Are you talking about Tyler Myers and Loui Eriksson?

I'm confused. You are arguing that giving Hughes a terrible contract like those two is a good idea, yet you cite them as a criticism of my argument?

Huh? Not sure where you get that. Quinn Hughes put up top 10 dman production on a shitty team. It seems folks like yourself blame him solely for the teams defensive struggles, when really the teams non existent defensive structure makes players look worse.

I think if you flipped Makar and Hughes teams last season their numbers would basically follow, Makar would look incredibly bad defensively and Hughes would have sterling numbers and better insulation in Colorado. I can't believe I have to even explain that.

Top 10 in points. Ok. With 2/3 of his starts in the o-zone. Top 3 lowest +/- (by far the lowest on Van), top 10 giveaways, etc. It's not because he's on Vancouver that he looks terrible defensively. It's because he is. That is the problem. Maybe he'll improve but any contract he gets must consider that. Otherwise why didn't we just sign Yandle?

 

[theguardianII]

Huh? Not sure where you get that. Quinn Hughes put up top 10 dman production on a shitty team. It seems folks like yourself blame him solely for the teams defensive struggles, when really the teams non existent defensive structure makes players look worse.

I think if you flipped Makar and Hughes teams last season their numbers would basically follow, Makar would look incredibly bad defensively and Hughes would have sterling numbers and better insulation in Colorado. I can't believe I have to even explain that.

What was Hughes PK minutes? If his team was so bad and he is so good why isn't he killing penalties?
If he is so good why isn't he starting more in the defensive zone?
If he is so good why isn't he matched against the other team's top lines when the team has last change? Why do all the other team put their best on the ice when he is out there?
Is it Demko's fault that Hughes was on the ice for 65 of the goals against? Did Demko suddenly get bad only when Quinn was on the ice?

Don't be fooled by a small forward playing from the defensive position.

60 giveaways, 43 takeaways -17, 17th in hits, even below OJ, #6 in dmen for blocked shots and that includes Benn who played 20 less games, 23rd in shooting percentage which shows the amount of wasted time, only Benn and Edler had worse shooting percentages on the team, 3rd worst in the entire league for plus/minus, a total of 3:08 PK minutes the entire season.

Now do you really think that is a comparable to Makar? Makar had to play with up to 14 different partners.

They are still looking for partner for Hughes instead of just looking for a good defenseman that is overall good for the team instead of one individual player.

IMO package Hughes up and trade. If to NJD they would have the "Triplets", a marketing selling point. Trade him to them for Sharangovich, a Russian speaking forward capable of playing all forward positions and a comrade for Podkolzin and defensive prospect Vukojevic and a 2nd. Improves the top 6, costs less and adds another large dman. Graves would be a steal but with Sharangovich the Canucks might have to add a late pick.

 

[F A N]

What was Hughes PK minutes? If his team was so bad and he is so good why isn't he killing penalties?
If he is so good why isn't he starting more in the defensive zone?
If he is so good why isn't he matched against the other team's top lines when the team has last change? Why do all the other team put their best on the ice when he is out there?
Is it Demko's fault that Hughes was on the ice for 65 of the goals against? Did Demko suddenly get bad only when Quinn was on the ice?

Don't be fooled by a small forward playing from the defensive position.

60 giveaways, 43 takeaways -17, 17th in hits, even below OJ, #6 in dmen for blocked shots and that includes Benn who played 20 less games, 23rd in shooting percentage which shows the amount of wasted time, only Benn and Edler had worse shooting percentages on the team, 3rd worst in the entire league for plus/minus, a total of 3:08 PK minutes the entire season.

Now do you really think that is a comparable to Makar? Makar had to play with up to 14 different partners.

They are still looking for partner for Hughes instead of just looking for a good defenseman that is overall good for the team instead of one individual player.

IMO package Hughes up and trade. If to NJD they would have the "Triplets", a marketing selling point. Trade him to them for Sharangovich, a Russian speaking forward capable of playing all forward positions and a comrade for Podkolzin and defensive prospect Vukojevic and a 2nd. Improves the top 6, costs less and adds another large dman. Graves would be a steal but with Sharangovich the Canucks might have to add a late pick.

Makar's zone starts isn't vastly different from Hughes. The way Green wanted to deploy Hughes was to use him as some sort of weapon. He's actually played with different partners last season because of that.

I think your trade proposals are a bit ridiculous. At least try an extract a king's ransom if we're going to help NJ.

 

[alternate]

If you give Hughes a bunch of defensive starts and PK time, are you just adding that to the minutes he already plays, or are you giving someone else his offensive minutes to put QH in a more defensive role? I don't really like either option.

Hughes is always going to be a guy with a lot of turnovers and a low shooting percentage. I'm fine with that, and want him looking to push the play towards the opponents net, not looking for the safe play back to his partner so he avoids a turnover.

Every one knows Hughes needs to be a better all around player than he was this year. He's going into his third year. Expectations should be that he will improve, same as expectations for most 3rd year players.

 

[elitepete]

Hughes is going to get paid for his point production. The team will be paying him for his point production. Canucks fans want him to be on the team because of his ability to generate offense from the back end. Unless there is a similarly aged Dman who can produce offensively like Hughes and defend much better available through trade 1 for 1 Hughes is who we have and we should be happy that we have him.

I don't think some posters realize just how valuable a 60+ point Dman like Hughes and how rare it is for the Canucks to have a Dman like that and for more than 2 seasons.

If he gets 9m like some people are saying, I’m not sure if he will live up to that unless the cap goes up by a lot in the next year or two.

I hope we do a 1 year bridge or get him for something like 7m x 7

 

[Zippgunn]

IMO package Hughes up and trade. If to NJD they would have the "Triplets", a marketing selling point. Trade him to them for Sharangovich, a Russian speaking forward capable of playing all forward positions and a comrade for Podkolzin and defensive prospect Vukojevic and a 2nd. Improves the top 6, costs less and adds another large dman. Graves would be a steal but with Sharangovich the Canucks might have to add a late pick.

I can't believe that Hughes wouldn't jump at the chance to play with the Devils nor that the Devils wouldn't overpay to acquire him so I think I agree with you on this. I doubt he will improve much defensively, at least not under Green so I think it's time to make a decision on him...

 

[sting101]

What was Hughes PK minutes? If his team was so bad and he is so good why isn't he killing penalties?
If he is so good why isn't he starting more in the defensive zone?
If he is so good why isn't he matched against the other team's top lines when the team has last change? Why do all the other team put their best on the ice when he is out there?
Is it Demko's fault that Hughes was on the ice for 65 of the goals against? Did Demko suddenly get bad only when Quinn was on the ice?

Don't be fooled by a small forward playing from the defensive position.

60 giveaways, 43 takeaways -17, 17th in hits, even below OJ, #6 in dmen for blocked shots and that includes Benn who played 20 less games, 23rd in shooting percentage which shows the amount of wasted time, only Benn and Edler had worse shooting percentages on the team, 3rd worst in the entire league for plus/minus, a total of 3:08 PK minutes the entire season.

Now do you really think that is a comparable to Makar? Makar had to play with up to 14 different partners.

They are still looking for partner for Hughes instead of just looking for a good defenseman that is overall good for the team instead of one individual player.

IMO package Hughes up and trade. If to NJD they would have the "Triplets", a marketing selling point. Trade him to them for Sharangovich, a Russian speaking forward capable of playing all forward positions and a comrade for Podkolzin and defensive prospect Vukojevic and a 2nd. Improves the top 6, costs less and adds another large dman. Graves would be a steal but with Sharangovich the Canucks might have to add a late pick.

wait whaaat so were trading a franchise player now and not getting one back? Can we give the guy a competitive team and another year first?? Jesus this proposal is bad,

Hughes was trash this last year but clearly he's gonna be a star scorer and transition wizard for a long time. I still would take him on a bridge to get as long as possible to evaluate his overall impact and whether he needs some sheltering. If thats the case and given he may want to force a move to play with his bros it gives us peak potential value in a trade scenario. Ty Smith would be a no brainer return and whatever to even it out.

 

[nowhereman]

What was Hughes PK minutes? If his team was so bad and he is so good why isn't he killing penalties?
If he is so good why isn't he starting more in the defensive zone?
If he is so good why isn't he matched against the other team's top lines when the team has last change? Why do all the other team put their best on the ice when he is out there?
Is it Demko's fault that Hughes was on the ice for 65 of the goals against? Did Demko suddenly get bad only when Quinn was on the ice?

Don't be fooled by a small forward playing from the defensive position.

60 giveaways, 43 takeaways -17, 17th in hits, even below OJ, #6 in dmen for blocked shots and that includes Benn who played 20 less games, 23rd in shooting percentage which shows the amount of wasted time, only Benn and Edler had worse shooting percentages on the team, 3rd worst in the entire league for plus/minus, a total of 3:08 PK minutes the entire season.

Now do you really think that is a comparable to Makar? Makar had to play with up to 14 different partners.

They are still looking for partner for Hughes instead of just looking for a good defenseman that is overall good for the team instead of one individual player.

IMO package Hughes up and trade. If to NJD they would have the "Triplets", a marketing selling point. Trade him to them for Sharangovich, a Russian speaking forward capable of playing all forward positions and a comrade for Podkolzin and defensive prospect Vukojevic and a 2nd. Improves the top 6, costs less and adds another large dman. Graves would be a steal but with Sharangovich the Canucks might have to add a late pick.

The ol' HFBoards special. Criticize management endlessly and then propose trades so ridiculous that, if they actually happened, management would be fired into the sun immediately.

Oh, wait... I see how it works.

 

[logan5]

Wonder what Rasmus Dahlin's contract is going to look like? Dahlin and Hughes were drafted the same year.

Hughes was a -24 but Dahlin was a horrible -36. I presume Dahlin's advance stats are worse than Hughes as well. Interesting to see Hughes not only being a much better point producer, but better defensively. I thought defense was a strong suit of Dahlin's, but he is the worst defenseman in the league.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Wonder what Rasmus Dahlin's contract is going to look like? Dahlin and Hughes were drafted the same year.

Hughes was a -24 but Dahlin was a horrible -36. I presume Dahlin's advance stats are worse than Hughes as well. Interesting to see Hughes not only being a much better point producer, but better defensively. I thought defense was a strong suit of Dahlin's.

But isn’t Buffalo a bad franchise, and Vancouver just a misunderstood and overlooked Cup contender? Hughes should have a much higher plus minus lead on Dahlin just by association with greatness via this Jim Benning built powerhouse.

 

[F A N]

If he gets 9m like some people are saying, I’m not sure if he will live up to that unless the cap goes up by a lot in the next year or two.

I hope we do a 1 year bridge or get him for something like 7m x 7

It's hard to say. I think you need a Dman to produce offensively in the playoffs (whether on the PP or ES) in order to have a chance at winning the Cup. Go look at the Cup winners in the past 10 years. I can't think of a team that didn't have one Dman who produced good offensive numbers in the playoffs.

The Canucks have spent many years in their history looking for a top offensive Dman. Without Hughes we'll be looking for a Dman like him. Hughes gives the Canucks an edge. There aren't that many Dman that can match his offensive capabilities. If we play the Avs in the playoffs the question will be who can match Makar and with Hughes we can say Hughes. Without him the answer is nobody.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I don't think any other player in the league had as much responsibility as Hughes did this past season. Talk about minutes and zone starts all you want, but especially with Petey down, Hughes would be deferred to for pretty much every play beginning and end when on the ice. He had the puck a ridiculous amount of the time, every PP, every OT, every zone exit or point control. Would love to see stats on that if such a thing exists.

Watching guys like Petro and Hedman, hell even Makar, some may play a bit more, and in more roles, but they have other teammates making plays. Other weapons being used to put some guesswork into the opposing team. Hughes basically plays with 4 guys looking for him to make every decision. That's a lot for young player on a piss poor coached team who's rookie and sophomore seasons add up to little more than 1 full season.

Watching the Avs/Knights/Lighting this run was a real eye opener. They have superstar talents, but they don't lean on any of them too much. Nucks tried to play as the Hughes show all season, and yea that didn't go so well, not much fault of his own.

 

[theguardianII]

Hughes is always going to be a guy with a lot of turnovers and a low shooting percentage. I'm fine with that, and want him looking to push the play towards the opponents net, not looking for the safe play back to his partner so he avoids a turnover.

That might be fine for the regular season but look carefully how many times a forward is playing defence when he is n the ice getting caught rushing. In the playoffs that is like taking candy from a baby.

Hughes was trash this last year but clearly he's gonna be a star scorer and transition wizard for a long time.

Sure, maybe but he has to be able to play against the top players of other teams and not just be an entertainer for the fans in the regular season.

I don't think any other player in the league had as much responsibility as Hughes did this past season. Talk about minutes and zone starts all you want, but especially with Petey down, Hughes would be deferred to for pretty much every play beginning and end when on the ice. He had the puck a ridiculous amount of the time, every PP, every OT, every zone exit or point control. Would love to see stats on that if such a thing exists.

Too much responsibility? Something like what Edmonton was accused of? Rushing the kids and putting too much pressure on them?
So all the team's success now is placed on two players with less than 5 years NHL experience combined?

Other true franchise players have left their draft teams after years of not making the playoffs.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

The QH contract is gonna to be UGLY. Kids gonna make 10M and literally can’t defend against AHL players. That’s wild.
The league pays for secondary assists

 

[clay]

Hughes is going to get paid for his point production. The team will be paying him for his point production. Canucks fans want him to be on the team because of his ability to generate offense from the back end. Unless there is a similarly aged Dman who can produce offensively like Hughes and defend much better available through trade 1 for 1 Hughes is who we have and we should be happy that we have him.

I don't think some posters realize just how valuable a 60+ point Dman like Hughes and how rare it is for the Canucks to have a Dman like that and for more than 2 seasons.

We happen to have that player right under our noses in Jack Rathbone. And yes, I believe he is very capable of 60+ point seasons running our powerplay, while being much better defensively. Unfortunately for him, with Hughes here, he will never get that opportunity.

 

[supercanuck]

If developed properly (I acknowledge a big if under Green) I still feel that QH can become that Letang like #1 defender who is smart and adequate defensively (i.e. stickwork and speed to defend), but provides elite transition and offense skills. Maybe he won't win Norris' but is invaluable to a cup contender.

 

[theguardianII]

Quinn buys apartment in Jersey!!!!!!

If developed properly (I acknowledge a big if under Green) I still feel that QH can become that Letang like #1 defender who is smart and adequate defensively (i.e. stickwork and speed to defend), but provides elite transition and offense skills. Maybe he won't win Norris' but is invaluable to a cup contender.

Quinn is smaller than Letang. 3" shorter and 35 lbs lighter
If Quinn is in need of learning why is he in the NHL why not in Abby?

 

[RobertKron]

If Quinn is in need of learning why is he in the NHL why not in Abby?

GEE I DUNNO