Player Discussion Quinn Hughes, Pt. VI

[NuxFan09]

I remember in the main board prospects thread last year, someone - I don't even think it was one of our posters - claimed Hughes would probably go on to become a more important player for this team than Pettersson. I thought it was preposterous at the time but you know what? I kinda get it now, even if I'm not yet in agreement.

 

[Hoghandler]

Not bad. Decent company.

 

[Canucks1096]

Not bad. Decent company.

The other 3 were draft+3 when they made it to the nhl. Leetch and Lidstrom were in a higher scoring era as well. Hughes 40 P is a lot impressive.

 

[canuckking1]

Honestly believe in his prime he could reach 2017 Erik Karlsson Level

 

[Hansen]

Not bad. Decent company.

I dont think many people around the league understand how historic this season is for Makar and Hughes, this is totally insane

 

[Melvin]

I dont think many people around the league understand how historic this season is for Makar and Hughes, this is totally insane

It's bananas.

Hughes is so far and away better than I was willing to anticipate... And he's still probably #2

 

[Britton]

He’s awesome for sure. Something we have not had .... maybe ever. That said, Makar is pretty much head and shoulders better. These people thinking there’s a race for Calder are homers. Makar has same amount of points , with playing TEN less games, is a +12 MORE than QH , has more goals and is a better pure defender. QH can keep pucks in at the line but he puts himself in bad situations sometimes, he gets walked sometimes (see Svechnikov recently). He’s great, but Makar is next level.

Makar does have slightly better offensive numbers it's true, but it's mostly driven by his early luck in the goal scoring department. Hughes overall possession numbers are much better than Makar's both overall and in comparison to his teammates, and they have very similar usage, with Makar actually getting the more favorable usage. To give you an idea of how lucky Makar was getting, at one point he had 8 goals while Hughes had 2 despite taking the same amount of shots, because Makar was shooting an absolutely insane 20%. So no there is not some big gap between them, if anything once Makar's number normalize, which they are already starting to do you will see the gap in ppg close more and more.

 

[Hodgy]

Context is important. Makar and Hughes are having incredible seasons, but both were lucky in that they were high draft picks drafted at the end of their teams “rebuilds”. So they are stepping into lineups with young elite offensive players, and each case, were able to get first power play time quite quickly. As an alternative, imagine if Hughes and EP were switched in terms of time line.

 

[NuxFan09]

Context is important. Makar and Hughes are having incredible seasons, but both were lucky in that they were high draft picks drafted at the end of their teams “rebuilds”. So they are stepping into lineups with young elite offensive players, and each case, were able to get first power play time quite quickly. As an alternative, imagine if Hughes and EP were switched in terms of time line.

I know, we all gotta slow our roll with the positivity huh.

Why? Why do we need to do this? It's a historic season for Hughes with no context necessary. Just leave it at that.

 

[iceburg]

Context is important. Makar and Hughes are having incredible seasons, but both were lucky in that they were high draft picks drafted at the end of their teams “rebuilds”. So they are stepping into lineups with young elite offensive players, and each case, were able to get first power play time quite quickly. As an alternative, imagine if Hughes and EP were switched in terms of time line.

Hughes IS the rebuild (along with Petterson). Without Hughes and Pettersson this team is a middling to bottom end team.

 

[604]

Hughes IS the rebuild (along with Petterson). Without Hughes and Pettersson this team is a middling to bottom end team.

Now they need to add.

A 2b centre and a #2 dman would leave us looking really good.

Would trade futures for those pieces.

 

[Hodgy]

I know, we all gotta slow our roll with the positivity huh.

Why? Why do we need to do this? It's a historic season for Hughes with no context necessary. Just leave it at that.

I said he was having an incredible season and you post this. Unreal.

 

[CherryToke]

Now they need to add.

A 2b centre and a #2 dman would leave us looking really good.

Would trade futures for those pieces.

And an NHL coach.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Makar does have slightly better offensive numbers it's true, but it's mostly driven by his early luck in the goal scoring department. Hughes overall possession numbers are much better than Makar's both overall and in comparison to his teammates, and they have very similar usage, with Makar actually getting the more favorable usage. To give you an idea of how lucky Makar was getting, at one point he had 8 goals while Hughes had 2 despite taking the same amount of shots, because Makar was shooting an absolutely insane 20%. So no there is not some big gap between them, if anything once Makar's number normalize, which they are already starting to do you will see the gap in ppg close more and more.

Nope. Makar has more goals, more points, and plus 12 more in TEN LESS GAMES. He also makes less mistakes than QH. QH is awesome but Makar is better.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it’s really a shame that makar is overshadowing just how historic hughes’ season is.

assuming he doesn’t get any more pts today, hughes is on pace for exactly the same stat line as lidstrom’s rookie year.

for context that’s the eighth highest rookie defenceman season ever, fifth in assists.

but even more crazy to think is hughes is on pace to tie kearns for the second highest scoring season by any canuck dman ever.

the first two canucks first round picks, dale tallon and jocelyn guevrement, second and third overall respectively, had rookie seasons that are still among the highest scoring dman seasons in canucks history. jovo and ehrhoff never scored as much as those two as rookies in the 70s. hughes is on pace to easily beat them.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Makar does have slightly better offensive numbers it's true, but it's mostly driven by his early luck in the goal scoring department. Hughes overall possession numbers are much better than Makar's both overall and in comparison to his teammates, and they have very similar usage, with Makar actually getting the more favorable usage. To give you an idea of how lucky Makar was getting, at one point he had 8 goals while Hughes had 2 despite taking the same amount of shots, because Makar was shooting an absolutely insane 20%. So no there is not some big gap between them, if anything once Makar's number normalize, which they are already starting to do you will see the gap in ppg close more and more.

I agree with this, but I would also say that a large percentage of the NHL award voters are lot more casual than you think mostly looking at the major stat lines.

It should be considered a close race in principal, but based on how the voters historically vote (not just the Calder either) it would be fair to say it’s Makars to lose.

 

[Britton]

Nope. Makar has more goals, more points, and plus 12 more in TEN LESS GAMES. He also makes less mistakes than QH. QH is awesome but Makar is better.

Did you even read what I wrote? First off Makar and Hughes have the same amount of points, +/- is a terrible stat that's driven by luck, and I straight up explained why Makar has more goals. There is no evidence to back up your claim that Makar makes less mistakes than Hughes, the only reason he is +12 more as you say is because his SPSV% is 102.7 i.e massively inflated. Again I will repeat, Hughes has better possession numbers overall and much better possession numbers relative to his teammates. So yes Makar has slightly better production to this point (about 10 points worth over a full 82 games) but it is mostly driven by luck, and given that Hughes is a full year younger than Makar there is no reason to believe Makar is a tier above Hughes at this point. Could that change in the future? Sure, progression isn't necessarily linear so who knows where they will go from here, but right now they are pretty equal, Makar is a better goal scorer, and Hughes is a better passer and better defensive player.

 

[mriswith]

Nope. Makar has more goals, more points, and plus 12 more in TEN LESS GAMES. He also makes less mistakes than QH. QH is awesome but Makar is better.

I haven't been watching Colorado's actual games recently, but every highlight I see with a Makar assist looks something like this:

 

[Balthazar]

I haven't been watching Colorado's actual games recently, but every highlight I see with a Makar assist looks something like this:

Then watch more videos.

 

[Raistlin]

Makar is not a possession focused defensemen. Using possession metrics to define his game is unfair. He is ahead of Hughes right now and there is no arguing that, he has a full year of development over Hughes. Saying one is a "tier" above the other is ridiculous, since they are both on the slight side in stature, both drafted high from NCAA, both the go to guy on D. I would expect Hughes to perform similar to Makar this year in 2021 and so on each year until Makar plateaus. Makar is special, to be on similar footing is immense for any franchise. But you got to give credit to him because he is doing it right now.

 

[VanJack]

What's incredible to me is how many minutes this kid plays for the Canucks.....Up over 20 minutes almost every night now, and even more if there's three or more power-plays. I think he may be trying to do too much right now, but I can live with that in a player who's so driven and hyper-competitive.

The reality is that based on his minutes and usage by Green, he's the best d-man the Canucks have right now at only 20 years old.

 

[member 290103]

Nope. Makar has more goals, more points, and plus 12 more in TEN LESS GAMES. He also makes less mistakes than QH. QH is awesome but Makar is better.

While Johnny is not wrong here, it's not as clear cut as he outlines as to which player is better. Keep in mind that it probably is very painful for Johnny to see how well Quinn is playing.

 

[CherryToke]

Then watch more videos.

Another no effort assist today. I think he makes a good point. Makar has it pretty easy.

 

[Balthazar]

Another no effort assist today. I think he makes a good point. Makar has it pretty easy.

Pierre: "That goal is all on Makar"
You: "No effort assist"

 

[CherryToke]

Pierre: "That goal is all on Makar"
You: "No effort assist"

Well that changes everything. If Pierre said it was all Makar, it must be true.