Quebec City getting a franchise ?

[Ismellofhockey]

The last time he was there was in 1607...

IB I don't think anyone said Québec was a sure bet now that they've spoken to Betteman, however it does mean they're in the loop, which is a good thing considering that the potential ownership groups are making noise right now. If Betteman had shot everything down, then they couldn't have taken the next step whatever it is.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

Gord Miller interviewed PM Steven Harper during the first intermission of the gold medal game in Quebec asking for his thoughts on a possible return of the Nordiques:

- Harper thinks the fanbase is there

- Harper thinks the hurdles are a small TV market and lack of corporate support

- Harper's government would not help out financially

I disagree with the TV market, I think RDS/RIS would make good money off the Nords but these are the issues that been brought up over and over with regards to Winnipeg an Quebec.

 

[NewBlood]

Quebec isn't selling out the WC's, they didn't sell out the Memorial Cup and they barely ever sold out for the Nords, some people need to wake up and smell the coffee, Quebec with their market is not attractive to any professional sports league

Barely sold out the Nords? The Colisee was always full even in the thoughest years (early 90s).

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Barely sold out the Nords? The Colisee was always full even in the thoughest years (early 90s).

This has been covered many times, so I'm not going to dwell on it. However:

Average attendance, Quebec home games, 1989-1995:
1989-90 15,080
1990-91 14,188
1991-92 13,666
1992-93 14,981
1993-94 14,614
1994-95 14,395
(http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm)

NHL capacity was 15,750 according to Wikipedia (I'd check a media guide directly but they're at my apartment and I'm not).

That's not really "always full".

 

[JeromeHP]

Well yeaa the colisee was not always full but the montreal forum was not full either (if you can look at the number) even when the habs moved to the bell/molson center they didnt sell out like they do now! Different marketing strategy/different crowd/better team

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Montreal isn't trying to get a team back right now.

 

[JeromeHP]

I know lol but i just want to compared the attendance between quebec and montreal to proved that even if quebec didnt always sell out, montreal didnt either! So the previous attendance of the nordiques shouldnt matter if they get a franchise back?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

So the previous attendance of the nordiques shouldnt matter if they get a franchise back?

It's not like I just randomly decided to post the Nordiques' attendance figures. Someone claimed that they consistently sold out even in their worst seasons - so apparently it was important to that poster.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

This has been covered many times, so I'm not going to dwell on it. However:

Average attendance, Quebec home games, 1989-1995:
1989-90 15,080
1990-91 14,188
1991-92 13,666
1992-93 14,981
1993-94 14,614
1994-95 14,395
(http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm)

NHL capacity was 15,750 according to Wikipedia (I'd check a media guide directly but they're at my apartment and I'm not).

That's not really "always full".

Attendance dropped below 90 percent for a single year while the average comes to 92% capacity. Considering these were the dark years in Quebec and also during a recession, I'd say those were great numbers.

11 teams had less than 92% attendance this year, the Islanders averaged 13 640 .
In 2006-07 11 teams were also under the 92% mark, with 5 teams averaging fewer than Quebec's 14 487 over the last 6 years of their existance.
In 2005-06 6 teams had a worse than 14 487 average and 12 teams were below 92%.

In the year before the lockout, 5 teams averaged fewer than 14 487 fans and fully half the league was below 92%.

Fans aren't a problem in Quebec. Just playing 4 home games against Montreal would guarantee 4 sellouts, probably another 4 against Toronto and 20% of your games are soldout.

 

[Macke*]

Gord Miller interviewed PM Steven Harper during the first intermission of the gold medal game in Quebec asking for his thoughts on a possible return of the Nordiques:

- Harper thinks the fanbase is there

- Harper thinks the hurdles are a small TV market and lack of corporate support

- Harper's government would not help out financially

I disagree with the TV market, I think RDS/RIS would make good money off the Nords but these are the issues that been brought up over and over with regards to Winnipeg an Quebec.

I'm sick of Harper trying to act elitest about hockey and always bandwagoning different teams.

 

[SOLR]

This has been covered many times, so I'm not going to dwell on it. However:

Average attendance, Quebec home games, 1989-1995:
1989-90 15,080
1990-91 14,188
1991-92 13,666
1992-93 14,981
1993-94 14,614
1994-95 14,395
(http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm)

NHL capacity was 15,750 according to Wikipedia (I'd check a media guide directly but they're at my apartment and I'm not).

That's not really "always full".

1)Did you checked the standings as well?(92-93 was a good season, 94-95 as well) But how about 15k+ in 89-90? When was the last time any team got over 97% attendance in a last place finish.(One of the worst in the history of the NHL)

2) 1990-1995 was a recession over here with over 18% unemployed. If Detroit is currently "excused" for it atm, I don't see how the standards should be any different for Quebec City.

And the NHL capacity is 15 400 if I remember correctly. (the plan was for 15 750 but they never reached that capacity)
*confirmed by Wikipedia in the right column.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colisée_Pepsi
http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/National_Hockey_League_arenas

 

[SOLR]

Montreal isn't trying to get a team back right now.

Don't you think relevant market information should be posted here? I mean, you know the Province of Quebec market doesn't act like any other in North America?

The forum was 17 995 capacity and maintained more than 95% attendance in overall better economic conditions.(While far from perfect Montreal didnt feel the recession as much as Quebec city did.)

 

[SOLR]

Gord Miller interviewed PM Steven Harper during the first intermission of the gold medal game in Quebec asking for his thoughts on a possible return of the Nordiques:

- Harper thinks the fanbase is there

- Harper thinks the hurdles are a small TV market and lack of corporate support

- Harper's government would not help out financially

I disagree with the TV market, I think RDS/RIS would make good money off the Nords but these are the issues that been brought up over and over with regards to Winnipeg an Quebec.

Harper's government won't help until the liberals gain some momentum in the polls in Quebec City.

And the TV market is the oldest and biggest myth there is. In fact this is where the Nords would hurt the habs, because the market in question is not local, it's provincial.(Apple cut in 2 for the habs.) So it's a 7-8m market for the habs and about 5-6m for the Nords.(Subtracting the Quebec anglophone population, who are generally habs fan and with a lot of superposition)
Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver are all smaller TV markets, de-facto. The same thing would happen with Hamilton basically, relatively small city, but big TV market because of the regional realities.(The team could appeal to a lot of people in Toronto)

 

[Bear of Bad News]

1)Did you checked the standings as well?(92-93 was a good season, 94-95 as well) But how about 15k+ in 89-90? When was the last time any team got over 97% attendance in a last place finish.(One of the worst in the history of the NHL)

Let me clear this up one more time, since you aren't seeing it for some reason.

The poster I was responding to said - exactly - "The Colisee was always full even in the thoughest years (early 90s).".

Giving that person the benefit of the doubt for a typo, they were claiming that NO MATTER WHAT THE STANDINGS WERE, the Nordiques' arena was always full.

Is this clear now?

 

[SOLR]

Let me clear this up one more time, since you aren't seeing it for some reason.

The poster I was responding to said - exactly - "The Colisee was always full even in the thoughest years (early 90s).".

Giving that person the benefit of the doubt for a typo, they were claiming that NO MATTER WHAT THE STANDINGS WERE, the Nordiques' arena was always full.

Is this clear now?

Nearly always full and always full, I just think your trying to much to make a point. 95% attendance is acceptable for any NHL franchises. Now if you consider the economic conditions at the time, it would seem normal that the gap between 95% and 100% was not filled strictly because of economic realities.

I think there's also more to it imo. You can see very little effect in attendance based on standings, I think thats what the affirmation was about, proving the value of the market as a strong hockey market. Usually a loosing team will loose 10-15-20% attendance as loosing seasons adds up, the Nords, did not.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Nearly always full and always full, I just think your trying to much to make a point. 95% attendance is acceptable for any NHL franchises.

Whether or not 95% is acceptable or not, that's none of my business. In fact, I've never said 95% in this thread. But since you brought it up...

In 1991-92, the Colisee was filled to 87% capacity. That's really nowhere near 95%, is it?

 

[SOLR]

Whether or not 95% is acceptable or not, that's none of my business. In fact, I've never said 95% in this thread. But since you brought it up...

In 1991-92, the Colisee was filled to 87% capacity. That's really nowhere near 95%, is it?

That was a low point for sure, albeit a very explainable one. Still, s lot of teams would wish to have such strong low points.

Just look at the pens in 2003-2004, without a major economic crisis on their hand.

http://www.finances.gouv.qc.ca/documents/Autres/en/docfin-finalang.pdf (page 8) Where 1991-1992 was the crisis years.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

That was a low point for sure, albeit a very explainable one. Still, s lot of teams would wish to have such strong low points.

Just look at the pens in 2003-2004, without a major economic crisis on their hand.

http://www.finances.gouv.qc.ca/documents/Autres/en/docfin-finalang.pdf (page 8) Where 1991-1992 was the crisis years.

It's not in question whether or not other teams have had difficulty selling out their arena in the past.

My point was that the poster in post #353 was nowhere close to being true under any reasonable definition. That poster considered it a salient part of the argument that Quebec City could support a team today - whether it is or not isn't important to me.

If your plan is to argue against things I've never said, then you can safely do it without me. Have fun!

 

[SOLR]

It's not in question whether or not other teams have had difficulty selling out their arena in the past.

My point was that the poster in post #353 was nowhere close to being true under any reasonable definition. That poster considered it a salient part of the argument that Quebec City could support a team today - whether it is or not isn't important to me.

If your plan is to argue against things I've never said, then you can safely do it without me. Have fun!

It must be fun arguing about a figure of speech, anyway.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

It must be fun arguing about a figure of speech, anyway.

If "always full" is a figure of speech, then yes, it's mildly amusing.

On the other hand, if you've carved out the figure of speech territory so broadly that it includes the phrase "always full", then it must take you forever to get through a normal conversation. Always having to explain which of your statements are figures of speech and whatnot.

 

[MoreOrr]

It must be fun arguing about a figure of speech, anyway.

What's more ridiculous, Doctor No being precise in his description of the actually attendance figures, or you taking exception to it? It's ridiculous to criticize him for posting the actual figures. Since the numbers were very good, regardless of whether The Colisee was in fact not actually full, you should just take those numbers as proof to back up your argument that the Nordiques had excellent attendance.

 

[SOLR]

If "always full" is a figure of speech, then yes, it's mildly amusing.

On the other hand, if you've carved out the figure of speech territory so broadly that it includes the phrase "always full", then it must take you forever to get through a normal conversation. Always having to explain which of your statements are figures of speech and whatnot.

I'm just saying it came across to me, a french Canadian, with a correct understanding of english(not amazing or native quality) as a figure of speech, I obviously didnt write this post and I could be wrong about what the author meant.

 

[SOLR]

What's more ridiculous, Doctor No being precise in his description of the actually attendance figures, or you taking exception to it? It's ridiculous to criticize him for posting the actual figures. Since the numbers were very good, regardless of whether The Colisee was in fact not actually full, you should just take those numbers as proof to back up your argument that the Nordiques had excellent attendance.

1) I didnt took exception to it, I took exception of arguing for the sake of arguing about a 3-4% difference. Where did I criticize him exactly, I just don't see it?

2) Those figures have been long known here and have been used many times to back up that fact.

 

[YellHockey*]

And the TV market is the oldest and biggest myth there is. In fact this is where the Nords would hurt the habs, because the market in question is not local, it's provincial.(Apple cut in 2 for the habs.) So it's a 7-8m market for the habs and about 5-6m for the Nords.(Subtracting the Quebec anglophone population, who are generally habs fan and with a lot of superposition)
Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver are all smaller TV markets, de-facto. The same thing would happen with Hamilton basically, relatively small city, but big TV market because of the regional realities.(The team could appeal to a lot of people in Toronto)

These comments are completely illogical.

So QC can count all of Quebec's francophone population in its tv market but Ottawa, playing in a province with 5 million more residents, is a smaller tv market?

Also, would the Habs even let a QC team broadcast in it's regional area? If not, take away over 4 million people from QC's tv market. That makes it much smaller then any of the other Canadian teams' tv markets.

 

[SOLR]

These comments are completely illogical.

So QC can count all of Quebec's francophone population in its tv market but Ottawa, playing in a province with 5 million more residents, is a smaller tv market?

Also, would the Habs even let a QC team broadcast in it's regional area? If not, take away over 4 million people from QC's tv market. That makes it much smaller then any of the other Canadian teams' tv markets.

1) Toronto and Ottawa are pretty polarized locations on a marketing level.

2) It was done for 20 years.