Euro: QF: Germany vs. Italy, 7/2/2016

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Live in the Now, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    Nowhere in the rule does it says there should be an "intention". It's the complete opposite. According to the rule this is 100% penalty.
     
  2. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Laws of the Game, FIFA:

    "Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm"

    Further: The referee must take the following into
    consideration:
    •
    the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
    •
    the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
    •
    the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
    infringement
     
  3. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    And how on earth would a referee know if it's intentional or not????? The rule is clear well actually it's not that clear but one thing is clear in the rule is that the "intentional" aspect doesn't matter. If you put your arms out or over your head it's handball every time.

    It was an interesting match to watch but the level of quality football was poor and I must admit Müller is really a pain with his whining and diving. Tough one for Italy for sure.

    I give big chance to France or even Iceland in the Semis.
     
  4. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Boateng did not deliberately contact the ball, nor did his hand move toward the ball and the ball arrived from extremely short distance (the Italian's head right in front of him).
     
  5. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    According to your view then on a free kick all 10 guys could join the goalie on the goal line with their hands up in their air and wait for the ball to hit their hands...
     
  6. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    Every referee from debutants to retired ones will tell you that's a penalty 100% regardless of how they stupidly write it to confuse people...And it should be if you want to play volleyball in your box.
     
  7. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Change of tactics was good for playing to a stalemate. Germany controlled the match, but they didn't move the ball forward or diagonally fast enough to break through the Italian defense. They were the better team overall (mostly the second half), but they also didn't thoroughly dismantle the Italians.

    Anyway, I still think this is a better tournament run than they had in 2014 up to the semis. We'll see how it continues.
     
  8. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    Deliberate is a synonym of 'intended'. They mean the same thing. So the rule is very clear that the intention is in fact the decisive element and accidental handling of the ball is not a foul.
     
  9. Pouchkine

    Pouchkine Registered User

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    He intentionally put his arms over his head so there you have it.
     
  10. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    That's a completely different situation and usually the word 'deliberate' means there has to be a judgment call. Referees have made it 'easier' for themselves by coming up with certain conventions of interpretation which aren't really based on the rule itself and more on them trying to find a shared list of factors that narrow it down to get *near* the actual rule. It's essentially a lack of confidence in their own judgment and a way of covering their a**es.

    The problem is that 'stretched out arms' in themselves are no sign of a deliberate act, especially if the ball is deflected as in this case. The rule specifically makes this clear yet referees would all rather follow their little cheatsheet that has little to do with the rule itself.
     
  11. dookie88

    dookie88 Registered User

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    Putting his arms over his head intentionally does not equal playing the ball with his hands / arms intentionally, so there you have it.

    This is actually were the active movement towards the ball comes into play, which Boateng hasn't done.

    The problem here is that when using common sense, it is obviously a penalty. Because if it isn't every defender would expand their arms to make themselve bigger and to try to get hit with the ball instead of actually defending.

    The way the handball rule is written has been a problem for a number of years now and it's time for FIFA to do something about it to help the refs and the players to understand what is allowed and what isn't.
    Because if you look at the rule, you could very well make the argument that this wasn't a handball.
     
  12. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    If you do that every player will jump with his arms in the air and plead non guilty because it's not "delibarate".
    The fact that Boateng's arm (which wasn't in a natural position) prevented a big chance is enough to know it's an obvious penalty.
     
  13. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    Outplayed by France? Dominated by Ukraine for 20 minutes? That's some serious hyperbole
     
  14. serp

    serp Registered User

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    With Khedira looking like he's out for the rest of the tournament we'll see Schweinsteiger in a much bigger role now . Hopefully is body can hold up .

    Gomez is guaranteed out too. Thats gonna hurt as well.
     
  15. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    Schwein is also being treated.
     
  16. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    I was too drunk during this game to have coherent thoughts about it.

    I think Schweini is just a really overrated player and nowhere near of deserving this absurd "legend" status he carries. He's always been overrated or injured or crocked. Doesn't impress me as a leader either, has played like garbage in too many important games to be a legend - and has missed at least two massive penalties so far. In my opinion, he simply doesn't have the mentality that many claim he does. He's the opposite of Ballack whose sheer strength of will could win games all by itself, and was discarded and underrated by many Germany supporters.

    I think Gomez is really underrated and has been a revelation of sorts. Maybe it was more to do with the great delivery he was getting from Ozil, Kroos and company though.

    Muller has been simply not good but his positioning and instincts are great as always - that attempt he had that Florenzi deflected was really good. He's mentally exhausted I think from the long season, and Pep's tactics are very demanding.

    Neuer - best goalie in the world. De Gea is good but doesn't have that presence that Neuer brings.

    Kimmich and Hector have impressed me going forward, Boateng and Hummels have been fantastic in nearly every way. It was a stupid penalty from Boateng but Chiellini is both hard to mark and a notorious gamesman and I'm sure Boateng was over-thinking that jump, anticipating Chiellini to flop.

    Toni Kroos however - specifically marked and targeted all game yet still managed over a hundred passes - he does the little things so right. His vision and delivery is just so so good. He took the first penalty with poise too. He just has ice water flowing through him, never gets rattled, never overthinks things. He's calm and smart and aloof. It isn't ideal, in my opinion, but it serves him very well. One of the biggest knocks against him is that he only shines when things are going well - but in fairness, things usually go well because of him, not in spite of him. And when games go poorly, it often isn't his fault, but it does expose his weaknesses - especially defensively.

    Basically what I'm trying to say here is that I have a massive football-crush on Kroos and Gomez.

    Regarding Italy, I love their team and their tactics, their gamesmanship and their guile, almost all their players and especially Conte. Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini - just beautiful. Buffon - legend. Love them.
     
  17. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    Hopefully that means he can't play and Jogi is forced to do something smart n play Weigl.
     
  18. WhiskeySeven*

    WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    Gomez is out? Oh god. :(

    I think they have to get creative here - who are the alternatives at CM left now? Weigl and who else?
     
  19. Just Win

    Just Win Registered User

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    Emre Can. And Kimmich if Jogi wants to play someone else as RB. But we really should just start Weigl.

    Gomez being out for the rest of the tourney really hurts. Our offense looked so much better with him on the field. Let's hope Jogi comes up with something other than playing Götze as striker again.
     
  20. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Still possible for Löw to field a very good lineup, but it seems he often makes dumb choices. Will he prioritize shutting down the center by adding an extra midfielder (Weigl-Kroos-Kimmich) while putting Mustafi or Can as RB? A lot of possibilities in attack too.
     
  21. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Are we seriously arguing whether or not that was a penalty? That's a penalty clear as day. You can't put your arms up over your head to block the path of the ball.
     
  22. Bon Esprit

    Bon Esprit Registered User

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    Löw won't play Weigl and Kimmich. No way. Kimmich was our weak spot defensively.
     
  23. Deficient Mode

    Deficient Mode Registered User

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    No he wasn't. He had two bad touches, that was it. Höwedes made bigger but less noticeable mistakes: his man-marking of the Italian attacker on Kimmich's blunder was horrendous for instance. Kimmich has had some slight hiccups in big matches at club and international level, but he adds far too much to consider taking him off. One of Weigl or Can will have to play if Schweinsteiger is out too. It ought to be Weigl.
     
  24. serp

    serp Registered User

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    Löw won't make the team too green that'd be a stupid risk. Weigl has 30 games of Bundesliga and 1 Cap for the German team . He's not gonna play unless there's no other choice.
     
  25. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    Emre Can is ready and is pretty much a direct replacement for Khedira.
     

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