Q. Hughes vs. Seider

[MarkusNaslund19]

Did Detroit fans finally recognize that Hughes is WAY better than Sieder?

Stop. It's literally a civil conversation and you're screaming like a toddler.

On topic, I take Hughes but it's close and that's no shot at Seider, I like him a lot and if the Canucks could have anyone in the league for free (excluding McDavid or a couple other mega star forwards) I might take him to pair with Hughes.

I think both are probably top 5 or 6 D in the league if we consider the futures that I expect for the two of them.

Seider is an RD which makes him incredibly valuable, but Hughes is basically a hockey super computer with a Ferrari engine.

I throw no shade at anyone who leans one way or the other, any AINEC takes are by people who are here to argue instead of discuss.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

It's weird to me how we're supposed to consider Hughes as a defensive D-Man because of a 6 game sample size where Boudreau has used him as such.

Compared to a robust 30 game sample size? A lot of it is based on projection, no?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Seider starts 54.7% of his ES shifts in the defensive zone (the highest rate of any D on Detroit with at least 10 games played), while Hughes only starts 36.7% of his shifts in the defensive zone (the lowest rate of any Vancouver defenseman). Based on this, it seems like Seider is playing more difficult defensive minutes compared to his teammates, which I would expect to have an negative impact on his relative numbers, while Hughes is getting the prime offensive chances, which makes his relative defensive numbers look a lot better by comparison since it's less likely that he'll give up a goal after an offensive zone start.

The fact that Seider is getting used like that shows that the Wings coaching staff thinks he's their best defensive option, which is more telling than the relative defensive numbers.

But in the Canucks case using Hughes primarily for DZ starts would be like using a lamborghini to pull a plow.

For much of the year we have had like 7 of our top 9 forwards slumping and Hughes has been generating like 40% of our offence. This isn't a mark against him.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

But in the Canucks case using Hughes primarily for DZ starts would be like using a lamborghini to pull a plow.

For much of the year we have had like 7 of our top 9 forwards slumping and Hughes has been generating like 40% of our offence. This isn't a mark against him.

I fully agree that Hughes is being used properly based on his skills. He's an offensive weapon and deploying him in that manner is absolutely the correct choice, and I'm not knocking him for it.

I'm just saying that usage impacts relative defensive numbers, and guys with more offensive zone starts are fully expected to have better relative defensive numbers than the guys who start more of their shifts in the defensive zone, so trying to use relative defensive numbers as evidence of a players defensive skill level isn't a great way to do it.


Also, out of curiosity, what's wrong with using the Lamborghini on the right to pull a plow? Because it seems to be more like Seider to me, while the Lamborghini on the left is more like Hughes.

 

[Canucks LB]

Lmao these results

 

[OKR]

Lmao these results

Yeah, i see no reason why anybody would choose the younger, bigger, RD who has been excellent in every level he has played at and made a huge difference on the team he plays for.

Lmao these replies

 

[AD1066]

I was upset when the Wings didn't draft Hughes. Dynamic player, local family ties, playing college down the road, and they blew it.

That said, the emergence of Seider has eased the feeling of missed opportunity there. He has the makings of a Hedman-lite and can be a more impactful all-around player due to his size. If given the choice today to forfeit Seider and gain Hughes, I'd probably hold on to Seider.

 

[AvroArrow]

Put away the bias and this is Hughes AINEC

What bias ? Hughes is a beast offensively but an absolute liability defensively. That's just a fact. But it's honestly an exciting thing for nucks fans, cause he only has room to improve. Defence/positioning can be taught, he can get bigger/stronger while still playing at an elite level offensively. I like Seider here but would not shock me if Hughes is the better D-man in 3-4 years time. Lots of potential there.

 

[Regal]

What bias ? Hughes is a beast offensively but an absolute liability defensively. That's just a fact. But it's honestly an exciting thing for nucks fans, cause he only has room to improve. Defence/positioning can be taught, he can get bigger/stronger while still playing at an elite level offensively. I like Seider here but would not shock me if Hughes is the better D-man in 3-4 years time. Lots of potential there.

M2B always makes those types of joke homer posts. They’re not serious.

But Hughes being a liability is not even close to a fact.

 

[M2Beezy]

What bias ? Hughes is a beast offensively but an absolute liability defensively. That's just a fact. But it's honestly an exciting thing for nucks fans, cause he only has room to improve. Defence/positioning can be taught, he can get bigger/stronger while still playing at an elite level offensively. I like Seider here but would not shock me if Hughes is the better D-man in 3-4 years time. Lots of potential there.

They have ice hockey on tv. You can watch it instead of staying wrong things as facts. It is quite a remarkable and entertaining thing to watch hockey

 

[bsu]

I'd take Seider and never second guess it. But the Ducks have Drysdale, Zellwegger, Fowler I think Seider fits in best.

 

[AvroArrow]

They have ice hockey on tv. You can watch it instead of staying wrong things as facts. It is quite a remarkable and entertaining thing to watch hockey

Or you can take the homer goggles off ?

 

[eviohh26]

What bias ? Hughes is a beast offensively but an absolute liability defensively. That's just a fact. But it's honestly an exciting thing for nucks fans, cause he only has room to improve. Defence/positioning can be taught, he can get bigger/stronger while still playing at an elite level offensively. I like Seider here but would not shock me if Hughes is the better D-man in 3-4 years time. Lots of potential there.

False.

 

[hockeyisgud]

Hughes might be the most underrated player in the league

 

[John Johnson]

Or you can take the homer goggles off ?

He is not a liability defensively. Stop living in last season.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

As good as Moritz Seider is now and will be in the future
Quinn Hughes's offensive production skill
is just too big factor for me, to look over.

In time, Hughes will learn how to play defense better,
but Moritz Seider will never be a defenseman
who can produce at the level what Quin Hughes produces.

I mean, Quinn Hughes is scoring more points what Bobby Orr was
in his first 3 seasons, that is not a small thing to achieve.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

As good as Moritz Seider is now and will be in the future
Quinn Hughes's offensive production skill
is just too big factor for me, to look over.

In time, Hughes will learn how to play defense better,
but Moritz Seider will never be a defenseman
who can produce at the level what Quin Hughes produces.

I mean, Quinn Hughes is scoring more points what Bobby Orr was
in his first 3 seasons, that is not a small thing to achieve.

I mean, according to every analyst that was covering the 2019 draft, Seider was never going to be a defensemen that produced at the level he’s producing at currently, as a 20 year old.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I mean, according to every analyst that was covering the 2019 draft, Seider was never going to be a defensemen that produced at the level he’s producing at currently, as a 20 year old.

I mean most people had him outside the top-10 at the time of the draft so no doubt he's become better than expected

 

[Aqualung]

What bias ? Hughes is a beast offensively but an absolute liability defensively. That's just a fact. But it's honestly an exciting thing for nucks fans, cause he only has room to improve. Defence/positioning can be taught, he can get bigger/stronger while still playing at an elite level offensively. I like Seider here but would not shock me if Hughes is the better D-man in 3-4 years time. Lots of potential there.

He's not a liability. Do your homework.

 

[Aqualung]

Or you can take the homer goggles off ?

He's purposely being sarcastic or hyperbolic in every post. See his posting history.

 

[Canuck Luck]

I love both these players. Wanted both on the Canucks. Sadly the wings nabbed Seider at 6 and everyone thought they were crazy. I had him ranked 4th (Hughes/Kakko/Byram/Seider/Zegras) and the fact he was projected to go around the Canucks 10th ovr pick and fit our needs had me salivating at what could have been.

With that said this is a very very close poll. Essentially I see a prime of Leetch for Hughes and Pronger for Seider. Can't go wrong with either choice. Style wise I like what Seider brings. I like big physical d that can excel at a 2 way game. However Hughes is something the Canucks D have lacked since Ehrhoff. I voted Hughes just because if last season was an anomaly for him defensively (which it seems based off his rookie year and his time under BB this season), I think he is more of a game breaker than Seider.

 

[Svencouver]

It's weird to me how we're supposed to consider Hughes as a defensive D-Man because of a 6 game sample size where Boudreau has used him as such.

I also watch him with my eyes

 

[The Abusement Park]

I've watched a lot of Hughes and sure I'd give him the edge in some areas when it comes to puck transitioning, puck carrying etc., but it's not something that Seider does at a much lower level.

The difference between them is sizable and that has everything to do with how unbelievably good at that part of the game Hughes is. Not a slight against Seider at all but Hughes is special in that regards.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The difference between them is sizable and that has everything to do with how unbelievably good at that part of the game Hughes is. Not a slight against Seider at all but Hughes is special in that regards.

I think the gap offensively is smaller than the gap defensively.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think the gap offensively is smaller than the gap defensively.

Way to move the goalposts lol. No one’s saying that.