redsfanhere*
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- Jun 9, 2011
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Putting It All Together-What does Jarmo do now?
- Thread starter EspenK
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alphafox
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2011
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Okay. We've been down, we're now up. We've *****ed about Umbie,Brass,Bob, Nikitin,Toots,Aucoin, etc. Now they are all heroes.
As others have the hero label is a bit strong, and if we're giving it out it needs to go to Calvert, Erixon, and Johansen. IMO, we should still trade some of these guys. It was never about how "bad" they were it was about the return they could bring to the team.
A rebuild supposedly is needed. A couple more wins and we're in the playoff hunt and Jones, Mackinnon, et al are merely guys that will torture us for years to come.
Agree and Disagree. We're winning now, but lets not go off the deep end and expect this winning or this level of play to continue. Bob is playing out of his mind (I think he has franchise goalie potential but this is unsustainable), and every member of the team is giving their 110% and then some. We may or may not be in the top 4 of this draft, but its far from certain either way at this point.
Also, I hate to sound trite but what we actually need is a "build". We all acknowledge that we lack top end offensive ability, but we have the foundation of a good team here. Second liners in abundance (AA, Johansen, Atkinson for sure and possibly Calvert, Dubi, Umberger, Brass, Foligno). These guys all play a 200 ft game, and can form a remarkable third line as well. The D looks solid if unremarkable and Bob could be the answer in net. This is a team with a foundation, what we need are capstone pieces (i.e #1 Center, #1 wingers) to finish off the rebuild that was in progress/kickstarted by the Nash trade)
We're young. Most of our guys are signed for next year or are no brainers to be resigned.
Richards is a lame duck next year if he isn't extended.
At this point barring a total collapse in the second half I think Richards gets another year or two. Right now the only guy I could see taking his job is Larsen given how well Springfield has played and how well the kids have developed under him. It is a hard thing to coach an almost entirely new roster even in a full season. Richards (and I was not a richards fan, btw) has done an Adams worthy job getting this team to gel and work as hard as they do in the face of early season losses and major injuries (Dubi, AA, Wiz, etc.)
Barring a return to historical Jacket habits and a prolonged slump, what does Jarmo do?
Things are a bit more complicated than when he first showed up.
???
IMO, Jarmo stays the course. This has been a great turnaround effort and culture wise, and team has shown some impressive growth but we still aren't cup contenders, which is the ultimate goal. I think that Jarmo still sells at the deadline (though probably not the fire sale as planned), particularly pieces that he thinks we can do without (Maybe a Nikitin or a Brassard). I think the big sale has likely been pushed back to the draft when Jarmo can make moves without destroying the confidence of the team.
Ceff Jarter
Registered Duster
- Aug 6, 2012
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Its not just 5 games. They have been playing like a playoff team for the last 15 games. If they continue to be competitive there is no reason to blow it up and start over. The core is there. We need two dynamite players to put us over the hump. One could very well be Ryan Murray or RyJo and we could bring in another through free agency or packaging one of our D-men up with a first rounder
Ceff Jarter
Registered Duster
- Aug 6, 2012
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More from me. There is so much groupthink involved in the draft. Taking the consensus "Best player available" is so foolish and counterproductive. The best players are not always the right players. Intangibles like team chemistry, coachability, and commitment are far more important than raw talent.
I'm not saying fill our team up with 4th liners and grind it out every night. I'm saying in the first round when we going to be drafting a very skilled player with potential, I hope Jarmo is creative in addressing team needs.
I'm not saying fill our team up with 4th liners and grind it out every night. I'm saying in the first round when we going to be drafting a very skilled player with potential, I hope Jarmo is creative in addressing team needs.
You don't think things like chemistry, coachability, commitment, etc factor into the 'best player available' evacuation? I do.
I think the Jackets have been better than even most fans acknowledge. Its not like we were an awful team that's put together a good streak, we have been playing great hockey for a while. We lost a slew of one goal games early this season, and the fact that the guys kept working through that is even more encouraging. I think a 13-6-3 finish is unlikely, but its got to be higher than the 5% chance folks have been citing.
What does Jarmo do? I think we should only be sellers at the deadline if we are more than a few points out of playoff position. If we sell while the players are still gunning for the playoffs I think it could risk harming the room (i.e. guys will stop making sacrifices for the team, and we lose team unity). I think there could be long term consequences to that. So if we are in the playoff bubble we will likely just make lateral moves, maybe guys like Mason and Nikitin will go.
If we are clearly out of it then a lot of players could go. I would see what we get for renting out Letestu and Prospal, and maybe trade Brassard.
What does Jarmo do? I think we should only be sellers at the deadline if we are more than a few points out of playoff position. If we sell while the players are still gunning for the playoffs I think it could risk harming the room (i.e. guys will stop making sacrifices for the team, and we lose team unity). I think there could be long term consequences to that. So if we are in the playoff bubble we will likely just make lateral moves, maybe guys like Mason and Nikitin will go.
If we are clearly out of it then a lot of players could go. I would see what we get for renting out Letestu and Prospal, and maybe trade Brassard.
Ceff Jarter
Registered Duster
- Aug 6, 2012
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Nope. Those intangibles are relative and different for literally every team in the league.
jIf we're getting rid of Mason it will be at the deadline. Maybe a dman or two
Also I think this is the team that comes outta the gates if we had a full offseason, training camp and preseason games. They are really just now hitting their stride so I really don't see a lot of moves happening cept mase and an old man out here or there.
Also I think this is the team that comes outta the gates if we had a full offseason, training camp and preseason games. They are really just now hitting their stride so I really don't see a lot of moves happening cept mase and an old man out here or there.
Ceff Jarter
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- Aug 6, 2012
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100% agree with that. It seems like the entire team has bought into Richard's and Davidson's message. If they blow it up while guys are still competing for a playoff birth, that would be do nothing but reinforce a losing attitude. People need to stop looking at Chicago and Pittsburg as the only model to win a cup. A LOT of things went perfectly right for both of those teams.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
I don't expect any major moves until he's had one full season here. Sell maybe couple of vets but nothing major.
Jive Pawnbroker
One day next week
The trade deadline isn't for another three weeks - a lot could happen between now and then.
Regardless, I don't expect them to be buyers. Jarmo will either stand pat or sell, depending on how the next few weeks go.
Regardless, I don't expect them to be buyers. Jarmo will either stand pat or sell, depending on how the next few weeks go.
Probably, odds are certainly in your favor. But if we are hovering around that 8th spot (legit, not the fake hovering we are doing now), maybe he makes a small dip into the pool. I doubt it, as we are loaded with role players already and anything that would truly help this team is probably way too expensive. On top of that we really aren't ready for a deep playoff run.
I guess what I am saying is that I think you are going to prove out to be right, but I'm not prepared to be as definitive as you are. I think he would like to add if the right deal came along. Maybe he can get a legit trade at forward with one of our defensemen.
They aren't to me. You trade players who aren't a part of the future and try to get more draft picks, prospects, and young players. We would be hurting our future if we don't get a high draft pick. A few wins this year isn't worth not getting one of the top 4 players in this draft.
So, do I. BPA means BPA to the person doing the drafting. BPA for Columbus may not be the same as BPA for Detroit (for example).
If the team keeps playing the way they're playing, I wouldn't be surprised to see Jarmo make NO moves at the deadline. He'll play his hand right before the draft.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
- 18,086
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Can you imagine how miserable it would be around here? A team in the playoffs that is 100% put together and maintained by Howson...with me constantly reminding everyone of that.
Jovavic
Gaslight Object Project
Can you imagine how miserable it would be around here? A team in the playoffs that is 100% put together and maintained by Howson...with me constantly reminding everyone of that.
Kinda like Tressel winning with Cooper's players?
Can you imagine how miserable it would be around here? A team in the playoffs that is 100% put together and maintained by Howson...with me constantly reminding everyone of that.
What will happen to the misery index if they win a series or two?
redsfanhere*
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2011
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howson will still be fired and won't get that other job in the org....What will happen to the misery index if they win a series or two?
As much as I'd like MacKinnon et al, I'd rather we keep winning. This is really the team I hoped we'd have at the start of the year, only without a preseason the Jackets had a hard time figuring out who they were, which strikes me as pretty much a team Ken Hitchcock would really love, hard checking and deep, with Bob's emergence we have real NHL level goaltending. Even Mason has played like an average NHL backup, which makes a huge difference.
The truth is if we keep playing as we are and come close to the playoffs we won't get MacKinnon. But we will get a team that really believes it's on the way up, that wants to be here as a result and is willing to work hard in the offseason to make that goal happen. Brad Richards and his staff have done at outstanding job making this team competitive despite limited talent and lots of injuries. Springfield coach Brad Larsen also deserves credit for bringing the kids along and sending them up ready to play.
One big reason is the play of our grinders. Mackenzie is a fine 4th line center with speed, defense and just enough offense. Boller is having a career year with both his stick and his fists. They've earned the time they've gotten late in games by bringing it hard, fast and responsible. In many ways they've set the tone for this team.
A lot of credit is due to Scott Howson. Howson got us Foligno, AA, Dubi, Erixon, Bob. He drafted the Johan, Johnny Moore, Calvert and Atkinson, and he (with Davidson's help) signed Larsen and turned it into a place where our kids learn how to play and win. He got us enough depth to absorb injuries and not collapse. Our kids are alright.
We playing hockey the right way. We roll four lines and they all contribute. We don't have to hide anybody. And we have three first round picks and management with the patience. When we lose it's at least good competitive hockey. I don't see the 'what were you thinking' so common over the last couple years.
Even if we have to wait for our prospects I'd rather we keep on building on course. I want our draftees to think they're going to a program where they will be held accountable for their work effort and will be given the time. And I want them to come to a team that expects to win and to compete and will hold them to that standard. That's what I see, and that's a team to build on.
The truth is if we keep playing as we are and come close to the playoffs we won't get MacKinnon. But we will get a team that really believes it's on the way up, that wants to be here as a result and is willing to work hard in the offseason to make that goal happen. Brad Richards and his staff have done at outstanding job making this team competitive despite limited talent and lots of injuries. Springfield coach Brad Larsen also deserves credit for bringing the kids along and sending them up ready to play.
One big reason is the play of our grinders. Mackenzie is a fine 4th line center with speed, defense and just enough offense. Boller is having a career year with both his stick and his fists. They've earned the time they've gotten late in games by bringing it hard, fast and responsible. In many ways they've set the tone for this team.
A lot of credit is due to Scott Howson. Howson got us Foligno, AA, Dubi, Erixon, Bob. He drafted the Johan, Johnny Moore, Calvert and Atkinson, and he (with Davidson's help) signed Larsen and turned it into a place where our kids learn how to play and win. He got us enough depth to absorb injuries and not collapse. Our kids are alright.
We playing hockey the right way. We roll four lines and they all contribute. We don't have to hide anybody. And we have three first round picks and management with the patience. When we lose it's at least good competitive hockey. I don't see the 'what were you thinking' so common over the last couple years.
Even if we have to wait for our prospects I'd rather we keep on building on course. I want our draftees to think they're going to a program where they will be held accountable for their work effort and will be given the time. And I want them to come to a team that expects to win and to compete and will hold them to that standard. That's what I see, and that's a team to build on.
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Robert
Foligno family
Howson did bring in most of the team we are currently watching but he also brought in the team we saw play five, four, three and two years ago... No one here knows what is going on behind the scenes with John Davidson in the organization; he could be impacting the room in a way Howson never could.
There is more to winning than a list of players, there is an organization behind players on a daily basis... A simple positive attitude knowing you are being led by a guy (JD) with bona fide experience and confidence could be the difference...
Well, we're not going to win the Stanley Cup with Howson's players. Getting into the playoffs and swept out in the first round doesn't satisfy me. Howson got us this far. It's up to the new guard to take us to the next level. Happens all the time in sports.
Exactly, I dont think Howson had the hockey-mind that JD and JK have, not to say Howson doesnt know hockey(obviously a little bit if he got to where hes at) but no where near on the level of these two.
Robert
Foligno family
I should have said Mike Priest was replaced by John Davidson... That in itself would make professional NHL hockey players think they finally had bona fide management leading them from the top... Bets are the teams professional players thought the CBJ management was a joke for years knowing he was President.
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