Post-Game Talk: PS#5 Flyers @ Rangers

[Kaapo Cabana]

Lirl, McDonagh with the super casual 81 CF% tonight.

Also, look what happens when we ice 18 capable skaters. Four complete lines that constantly were able to pressure the Flyers all night long.

I only watched the third period, and McDonagh looked like he was flying out there.

To have him back to 2013-14 form would be a huge boost for this team.

 

[pld459666]

I'm so sick of this line of thinking! Sather, whom by the way, is no longer the GM, began trading all of "the aging stars" for draft picks, prior to the bs salary cap going into effect! Sather, I believe, initially followed that flawed logic because he made that ridiculous statement about how if he had the Rangers payroll he'd win the SC every year.

The salary cap is punitive and disproportionately effects the successful organizations! If they wanted to go this route, they should have done the same thing the NFL did and not have guaranteed contracts.

Sather only made those moves because he knew a cap was coming.

PRIOR to that - Lindros - Fail - Bure - Fail - Holik - Fail - Kaspar - Fail

Post cap?

Gomez - Fail

Drury - Fail

Redden - Fail

If there was no cap, you can be assured that the list above would be a lot longer.

Probably would have traded fro Vinny when Torts was here.

 

[pld459666]

I'm so sick of this line of thinking! Sather, whom by the way, is no longer the GM, began trading all of "the aging stars" for draft picks, prior to the bs salary cap going into effect! Sather, I believe, initially followed that flawed logic because he made that ridiculous statement about how if he had the Rangers payroll he'd win the SC every year.

The salary cap is punitive and disproportionately effects the successful organizations! If they wanted to go this route, they should have done the same thing the NFL did and not have guaranteed contracts.

The players do have a say in these things.

They want guaranteed contracts.

 

[pld459666]

Lirl, McDonagh with the super casual 81 CF% tonight.

Also, look what happens when we ice 18 capable skaters. Four complete lines that constantly were able to pressure the Flyers all night long.

It takes a suspect PS call in OT to pull out a win?

I did not watch the whole game, but when I did watch, I was not overly impressed with what I saw.

I was kind of shocked that the PS was given in that spot in OT, seemed very soft, but I understand the rationale behind awarding it.

 

[Ola]

Actually, ever since his second year in the organization, hearing him speak in interviews sold me on him as a legit prospect. He's a very smart and articulate kid, all you hear about him is how many questions he asks, how badly he wants to improve, and more than anything, that he himself understands that this is a process. Gordie Clark used to rave that McIlrath wanted to let himself fill out naturally instead of bulking up right away like most prospects. He knew that he already had strength and power, and wanted to concentrate instead on coordination, agility, balance, and growing into his frame in a way that could facilitate his development.

When they picked him everyone said he would take a lot of years to reach his ceiling, even years into playing in the NHL. Throw in the injuries and it's not a mystery that it's taken this time. He'll be a good player for us. In glad he's succeeding, he's such a likable guy.

I am very impressed with how he have handled the pressure on him. Its tremendous. In the AHL from the time he was drafted until now. I think he has had great support from Beuke and Co., but I also think the kid really has his head put on right...

I followed Hugh Jessiman very closely from the time he was drafted and until we dumped him. He wasn't weak mentally or anything, but he could like play on a top line in the AHL and score a decent amount of points and still have huge confidence issues because the expectations were so much higher. This is almost the norm for high picks that fail. A Brian Boyle in LA had the exact same problems. There are numerous examples. For these kids its a burden to be picked high, because its completely impossible for them to "do well" given the expectations on them. The difference is almost always really obvious if you compare the later round pick's development to the high round pick that is struggling a bit. The former always just seem high on emotions pushing his bounderies, while the later so often seem more like concerned and life-less. And its like the same if you look at like a Luke Schenn or Eric Gudbransson and guys like that. Maybe I am imagine it, but doesn't it seem like you can tell that they are disappointing high picks?

Anyway, the way McIlrath has kept his focus and how he has performed during this short camp has been really impressing.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It takes a suspect PS call in OT to pull out a win?

I did not watch the whole game, but when I did watch, I was not overly impressed with what I saw.

I was kind of shocked that the PS was given in that spot in OT, seemed very soft, but I understand the rationale behind awarding it.

Mason stood on his head for the Flyers. The Rangers were dominating basically all night.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Where can I get highlights from the game?

 

[nevesis]

Where can I get highlights from the game?

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlg=20152016,1,67&navid=sb:highlights

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Sather only made those moves because he knew a cap was coming.

PRIOR to that - Lindros - Fail - Bure - Fail - Holik - Fail - Kaspar - Fail

Post cap?

Gomez - Fail

Drury - Fail

Redden - Fail

If there was no cap, you can be assured that the list above would be a lot longer.

Probably would have traded fro Vinny when Torts was here.

Drury's body fell apart.


Gomez I don't even consider a fail. He had two good seasons here where he performed to expectations, then he started to slip and we traded him and got McDonagh. That's a win for me.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Incorrect logic. Him having 5 guys ahead of him on the depth chart does not affect the value that he brings to the team for 3 main reasons.

1. He is currently 6th on the depth chart, but plays as good as a 4th. That's paying for a premium. When you pay for a 6th, you usually get a 6th.
2. Boyle is gone next year and Klein can be in the top 4 for a mesely 2.9 million. When the next wave of defenseman contracts goes around we will be laughing at that 2.9 million.
3. Injuries happen every year. One of our top 5 will get injured. Not if, when. When they do, Klein fills in for the top 4 and we don't miss a beat defensively.

He plays the 6th most minutes on this team. He is the 6th best Dman. He makes more than the 6th Dman on most teams makes.

He is not a premium, he is a luxury. if McI develops, he's taking Klein's spot. You're not ditching Boyle and playing Klein/Staal - that would be horrid.

You can patch a 6th d spot. There were plenty of vets who signed short deals below $2.9. Skjei will be ready next year. McI may be in the top 6.

I'm not saying dump Klein for no reason. But this idea that Klein is this huge steal is pure fantasy.

 

[RangerBoy]

I love the cap. It forces the GM to use his brain and not just throw money at every problem. It's here to stay. Stop complaining about the cap. The people on this site are fascinated with the windows. Thankfully Gorton does not believe in windows.

 

[Miamipuck]

Did Jon Gruden write this?

He plays the 6th most minutes on this team. He is the 6th best Dman. He makes more than the 6th Dman on most teams makes.

He is not a premium, he is a luxury. if McI develops, he's taking Klein's spot. You're not ditching Boyle and playing Klein/Staal - that would be horrid.

You can patch a 6th d spot. There were plenty of vets who signed short deals below $2.9. Skjei will be ready next year. McI may be in the top 6.

I'm not saying dump Klein for no reason. But this idea that Klein is this huge steal is pure fantasy.

Klein in the top 4 for any amount of time longer than a few games is a gross thought. So yeah you're 100% that contract isn't great for a #5-6 type. He had a great 3 months last year and other than that he reverted to his career mean prior to and after the injury.

The 5-6 spots need to be cost controlled and I do not mean 2.9 mill for mediocre at best play.

 

[Trxjw]

The cap is one of the best things to happen to this organization in the last 20 years.

In regards to the game, the team looked good. Some random thoughts:

Raanta looked solid, but his rebound control is a little scary. Should be a decent backup though.

McIlrath continues to play very well. My only concern is that going from getting into almost every game to being in the press-box most nights could cause some major consistency problems for him. He's outplayed Klein, but 4 or 5 games isn't enough for him to start over him.

McDonagh and Girardi were great.

Staal was shaky, but it's to be expected given how his summer went.

Boyle was awful. Turnover after turnover.

Yandle had some brainfarts as well, but he looks much more comfortable out there. Beauty of a penalty shot and he and McIlrath seem to have some solid chemistry.

Hayes finally stepped up his game. Was a force out there.

Miller came out like a madman, but that whole line cooled off eventually.

Nash, Kreids and Step all look great.

Stalberg looks like he wants a spot badly. Big question is whether or not he can keep up the intensity over the course of the whole season.

Stoll quietly had another solid game.

Fast was quiet. Looks like he's feeling the effects of bouncing between linemates so much.

Overall it was nice to see a near-full lineup on the ice. The team looks fast and is a lot of fun to watch.

 

[RangerBoy]

Gorton made those comments to Craig Custance. You keep building the team.

 

[Tawnos]

Sather only made those moves because he knew a cap was coming.

PRIOR to that - Lindros - Fail - Bure - Fail - Holik - Fail - Kaspar - Fail

Post cap?

Gomez - Fail

Drury - Fail

Redden - Fail

If there was no cap, you can be assured that the list above would be a lot longer.

Probably would have traded fro Vinny when Torts was here.

Wow revisionist history.

Sather didn't make those trades because he knew the cap was coming. Those trades could just have easily been made after the lockout. He made those trades because he had convinced Dolan to let him tank for Crosby.

 

[alkurtz]

Wow revisionist history.

Sather didn't make those trades because he knew the cap was coming. Those trades could just have easily been made after the lockout. He made those trades because he had convinced Dolan to let him tank for Crosby.

Absolutely correct: if there had not been a lockout we would have seen one of the worst Ranger teams ever. There were publications that picked us the finish 30th in the league. Go back and look at our roster during the summer before the lockout.

I do, however, want to give Sather credit for also seeing that his old method (throwing money at players, a scenario he had drooled over in Edmonton) was not working and he needed to rethink his strategy and look long term.

When the lockout ended, and Crosby had gone elsewhere, he was able to sign some vets that made us a respectable team...much better than we ever would have been if there had not been a lockout.

 

[haveandare]

It takes a suspect PS call in OT to pull out a win?

I did not watch the whole game, but when I did watch, I was not overly impressed with what I saw.

I was kind of shocked that the PS was given in that spot in OT, seemed very soft, but I understand the rationale behind awarding it.

They killed them the entire night. Outshot them badly in every period.

 

[Black Tank]

They killed them the entire night. Outshot them badly in every period.

Flyers got thoroughly abused. They got outplayed, outhit and the Rangers abused them with penalties that should have been called. Voracek is an annoying **** and it was great watching Nash kick his legs out from under him right before the refs called a very marginal penalty shot.

The criticism on here of Girardi and Mcilrath is fascinating. FFS, did you see the state of the Flyers dmen? What type of contracts are McDonald and Schenn on - because they suck horse ****, every single ****ing shift.

 

[haveandare]

Flyers got thoroughly abused. They got outplayed, outhit and the Rangers abused them with penalties that should have been called. Voracek is an annoying **** and it was great watching Nash kick his legs out from under him right before the refs called a very marginal penalty shot.

The criticism on here of Girardi and Mcilrath is fascinating. FFS, did you see the state of the Flyers dmen? What type of contracts are McDonald and Schenn on - because they suck horse ****, every single ****ing shift.

I recall looking up at the screen and the hits were something like 20 - 5

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Sather only made those moves because he knew a cap was coming.

PRIOR to that - Lindros - Fail - Bure - Fail - Holik - Fail - Kaspar - Fail

Post cap?

Gomez - Fail

Drury - Fail

Redden - Fail

If there was no cap, you can be assured that the list above would be a lot longer.

Probably would have traded fro Vinny when Torts was here.

Correlation does not equal causation! Bure, for the record was far from a fail! We got him for Igor ****ing Ulanov! Was jägr a fail? How about Straka or Nylander. To argue that Sather is the only GM in the entire NHL who has made bad trades/signings, is as ignorant as that stupid as emoticon you had in your reply.

 

[pld459666]

Wow revisionist history.

Sather didn't make those trades because he knew the cap was coming. Those trades could just have easily been made after the lockout. He made those trades because he had convinced Dolan to let him tank for Crosby.

Leetch was traded two months before the 04 season ended. Kovalev the day before Leetch. Teams ABSOLUTELY knew that there was going to be a cap implemented.

The Rangers were already **** team before those trades were made.

And no, I doubt those same trades were probable after the lockout when the cap gut set at 39 million. Significant variations of those deals (read lower returns) were on the horizon once the cap was set.

 

[Levitate]

Rangers outplayed and out chanced the Flyers but didn't do a good job getting in front of Mason, which is partly why he had such a good game. Lotta unscreened shots, not a lot of shots arriving when a Rangers player was in front. Not surprisingly, the two goals they scored were both from guys crashing the net or being around there.

Against teams like the Flyers that are going to try to clog the middle of the ice to prevent clean chances from the slot and prevent clean passes off the rush, the Rangers have to do a better job creating some havoc in front of the net, especially when facing good goaltenders. They had this problem last year as well

 

[pld459666]

Correlation does not equal causation! Bure, for the record was far from a fail! We got him for Igor ****ing Ulanov! Was jägr a fail? How about Straka or Nylander. To argue that Sather is the only GM in the entire NHL who has made bad trades/signings, is as ignorant as that stupid as emoticon you had in your reply.

Where in my post did I imply that other GM's don't make bad trades or signings?

What I said was that if there was no salary cap, the same old BS approach that Sather had prior to 2004 would have been in place in 2005, 2006, 2007 and so on.

I pointed to the fails that Sather heaped on this franchise pre and post cap to show that nothing would have changed.

And yes, Bure was a fail. His knees (both of them) were SHOT prior to getting traded to us. Hence playing in just 51 games spread over 2 seasons.

No, Jagr, Straka and Nylander were not a fails, which is why I didn't list them in my post, but I see that you are to smart for me and Noticed that.....Wait a minute

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Drury's body fell apart.


Gomez I don't even consider a fail. He had two good seasons here where he performed to expectations, then he started to slip and we traded him and got McDonagh. That's a win for me.

There those who laud the cap as saving the Rangers from themselves even though we will see from this point forward the full ramifications it has on the more successful teams while rewarding the ****** teams. I believe, Sather knew he could not win by trading away 1st round picks every year for over the hill has been and needed to begin developing a farm team. Chevepanov was the beginning price of that and had tragedy not struck, there's a very good chance we're talking about a SC maybe 2!
A few of those signing and trades he brings I think actually worked out well for us. As you stated Gomer put up his normal point production his first two seasons and ultimately got us Mcdonagh Bure we got for nothing and was lighting it up until his knee went out! Lindros was good here as well!

 

[Pizza]

I am very impressed with how he have handled the pressure on him. Its tremendous. In the AHL from the time he was drafted until now. I think he has had great support from Beuke and Co., but I also think the kid really has his head put on right...

I followed Hugh Jessiman very closely from the time he was drafted and until we dumped him. He wasn't weak mentally or anything, but he could like play on a top line in the AHL and score a decent amount of points and still have huge confidence issues because the expectations were so much higher. This is almost the norm for high picks that fail. A Brian Boyle in LA had the exact same problems. There are numerous examples. For these kids its a burden to be picked high, because its completely impossible for them to "do well" given the expectations on them. The difference is almost always really obvious if you compare the later round pick's development to the high round pick that is struggling a bit. The former always just seem high on emotions pushing his bounderies, while the later so often seem more like concerned and life-less. And its like the same if you look at like a Luke Schenn or Eric Gudbransson and guys like that. Maybe I am imagine it, but doesn't it seem like you can tell that they are disappointing high picks?

Anyway, the way McIlrath has kept his focus and how he has performed during this short camp has been really impressing.

I think you make some very good points here Ola.