GDT: PS #4 OILERS "Not near as strong team as we had here" @ JETS "big guns in the line up"

[Oilers in NS]

Wasn't fully directing to you Actually, I should move that post to the Yams thread, I meant to put it there. Long discussion about how Yams just ain't gonna make it cause of his size.

All cool

 

[Drivesaitl]

I had big hopes for Reider. Hope he turns it around

Like I've been saying Rieder has not had any NHL player to play with EV. He's even looked good playing pk when he's been rotated on their.

This is what he did last night.

On one turnover by his line he's first forward back, tight on the puck carrier, and turns the puck back the other way. Typical Reider, Oilers get zone pressure instead of the Jets. Played good on the pk. did some decent things in Ozone. Got some shots away. Battled for pucks.

Not really sure what people are expecting. He's not a flashy player, he's a sensible player that makes a lot of good plays and good decisions. he supports offense well provided he has commensurate players. He saw difficult minutes last night while playing with two AHLers. Lets see what he looks like in games where the Oilers are icing a real lineup. That said I didn't like his performance in the only game, previous, with Draisaitl but neither looked sharp and it was the first game of the year for both. That Rieder looked much better last night, in only his 2nd start is all I need to see. I've seen this player good.

 

[Raab]

Thx for the review.

If Jerabek is sent to minors, how much of it counts towards our Cap? Or even Kosiken (spelling) for that matter. I had big hopes for Reider but he hasn't looked good. Too bad we couldn't pull of a trade of Caggiula, Kassian and a 2nd for Faulk

You can bury a million roughly. So whether Koskinen or Montoya get sent down doesn't really matter, were spending roughly 2.5M for the backup. Jerabek wont cost anything towards the cap. Caggiula would cost .5, Kassian .9, Rieder 1M, Aberg is nothing. We'd save money sending those guys down and keeping guys up that are making less then 1M.

Edit: Id like to add I dont see Koskinen getting sent down without getting some regular season games in. To much potential there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

People are being way too hard, jmo, on Jerabek as well. He prevented a goal last night on a good skate slide, looked like on purpose, was on regular rotation on pk, and had no chance on the 5 on 3. he was physical at times, made some smart plays, and looks better than the older Garrison.

I think both Gravel and Jerabek have been good additions. I would be upset if Garrison was given a spot, honestly. I think he's most past it now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Johnny Gaudreau has survived the Pacific division

Sure he has. But not everybody is that player. He's way more talented than Kailer and way more inclined to absorb punishment. Watch the 5th Jets goal last night. Kailer with poor positioning, fails to get to a puck at end boards, fails to make a decision whether to compete for the puck to get back and before you know it he's the last player back and the puck is in our net. Its one of the problems with having a pint sized player that lacks elite compete level. Gaudreau has elite compete level. Kailer is not the same player or quantity. I know we'd want to think so.

 

[MessierII]

People are being way too hard, jmo, on Jerabek as well. He prevented a goal last night on a good skate slide, looked like on purpose, was on regular rotation on pk, and had no chance on the 5 on 3. he was physical at times, made some smart plays, and looks better than the older Garrison.

I think both Gravel and Jerabek have been good additions. I would be upset if Garrison was given a spot, honestly. I think he's most past it now.

Jerabek was burned on 2 goals against last night. One where he was blown by like pylon one where he turned it over. He’s had at least one major mistake leading to a goal in every game he’s played.

 

[Raab]

People are being way too hard, jmo, on Jerabek as well. He prevented a goal last night on a good skate slide, looked like on purpose, was on regular rotation on pk, and had no chance on the 5 on 3. he was physical at times, made some smart plays, and looks better than the older Garrison.

I think both Gravel and Jerabek have been good additions. I would be upset if Garrison was given a spot, honestly. I think he's most past it now.

Jerabek got beat to the outside by an AHLer for a goal against.

 

[McOvechking]

People are being way too hard, jmo, on Jerabek as well. He prevented a goal last night on a good skate slide, looked like on purpose, was on regular rotation on pk, and had no chance on the 5 on 3. he was physical at times, made some smart plays, and looks better than the older Garrison.

I think both Gravel and Jerabek have been good additions. I would be upset if Garrison was given a spot, honestly. I think he's most past it now.

I couldn't disagree more.

Jerabek looked totally incompetent, and like a complete liability on our blueline.

I'd be okay with Gravel being given a spot, but the following defenders should be on our opening night top-7 over Jerabek:

Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Russell, Bouchard, Benning, Bear, Jones, Gravel, Lagesson (I know he was sent down, but is still a better option).

Ideally we ship out Benning, Caggiula, and Kassian and somehow end up with a viable top-4 defender in the Ceci/TVR mould.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

People are being way too hard, jmo, on Jerabek as well. He prevented a goal last night on a good skate slide, looked like on purpose, was on regular rotation on pk, and had no chance on the 5 on 3. he was physical at times, made some smart plays, and looks better than the older Garrison.

I think both Gravel and Jerabek have been good additions. I would be upset if Garrison was given a spot, honestly. I think he's most past it now.

Yeah after he gave it away. I have not been impressed with any of our new defensive additions so far in camp. Hopefully Bouchard and/or Bear can elevate their games as we prepare for the games that matter.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I thought that as well... but after hearing McLellan's comments about vets losing jobs... I think the team may be more serious than we think about using merit as the determining factor in who makes and doesn't make the roster for the season start.

I think we all might put too much stock on McLellans comments from time to time. He sure makes strange ones. As well it was kind of odd. I felt that the whole team played well enough last night. We weren't icing a lineup that had much of a chance of winning. That they kept the score line even close was a whole lot better than the Jets B squad did the previous game. There was lots to like last night and certainly from some vets like Gravel, Brodz, Rieder, even Jerabek. I thought Brodz was fantastic last night. People should key on him. what a work ethic he still has. He's aged well.

The one aspect though is on the go ahead goal the Oilers D headmans the puck to Caggiulia. Cagg gets blown up in middle ice, loses that puck clean, and its immediately a bad counter and the puck is in our net. Cagg cannot lose that puck, in that space, clean. It can't happen. Those are the plays that kill you. Not long before that Gravel had made a good play deflecting a pass across to Wheeler and preserving the tie.
Cagg has always been in McLellans good books but as others have said with new coaching blood the scrutiny out there will be more objective. The reality is Cagg is not a good or useful NHL player. He sure isn't his scouting report. He's a bleeder at this level. Somebody responsible for a lot more GA than he creates. Thankfully we've probably seen the last of him on a pk.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I don't mind Caggiula as a 4th liner, he brings more consistent energy and effort than Kassian does. My problem is when he gets bumped up the lineup.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah after he gave it away. I have not been impressed with any of our new defensive additions so far in camp. Hopefully Bouchard and/or Bear can elevate their games as we prepare for the games that matter.

Gravel pretty much throughout camp has been put in top 4 spots without having a bonafide top 4 D to work with. I've seen him a fair amount in LA and move up and down the lineup there. he looked realy solid on 3rd pairing, and he even moved up to 2nd pairing at times that LA faced injury/fatigue. The only reason Gravel is here is that he has Chrohns disease (but stabilized) and that Kings have a lot of D prospects. He's a good get. I give Chia credit for getting him. I doubt given that that the org won't recognize they have a solid sensible player here. On the one giveaway in question it was caused by his D partner passing him the puck in heat, with Wheeler all over him. Do I expect Gravel to do well in that specific situation? No, but he survived it and managed to prevent Wheeler from scoring despite the stupid pass.

 

[North]

Sure he has. But not everybody is that player. He's way more talented than Kailer and way more inclined to absorb punishment. Watch the 5th Jets goal last night. Kailer with poor positioning, fails to get to a puck at end boards, fails to make a decision whether to compete for the puck to get back and before you know it he's the last player back and the puck is in our net. Its one of the problems with having a pint sized player that lacks elite compete level. Gaudreau has elite compete level. Kailer is not the same player or quantity. I know we'd want to think so.

You know Gaudreau is 5 years older than Yamamoto right? He should be able to withstand more punishment. Also, it’s not like Kailer shies away from battles.

Everything you listed as an issue is something that only experience will fix. The game is faster now, eventually his decision making will catch up.

 

[Raab]

I think we all might put too much stock on McLellans comments from time to time. He sure makes strange ones. As well it was kind of odd. I felt that the whole team played well enough last night. We weren't icing a lineup that had much of a chance of winning. That they kept the score line even close was a whole lot better than the Jets B squad did the previous game. There was lots to like last night and certainly from some vets like Gravel, Brodz, Rieder, even Jerabek. I thought Brodz was fantastic last night. People should key on him. what a work ethic he still has. He's aged well.

The one aspect though is on the go ahead goal the Oilers D headmans the puck to Caggiulia. Cagg gets blown up in middle ice, loses that puck clean, and its immediately a bad counter and the puck is in our net. Cagg cannot lose that puck, in that space, clean. It can't happen. Those are the plays that kill you. Not long before that Gravel had made a good play deflecting a pass across to Wheeler and preserving the tie.
Cagg has always been in McLellans good books but as others have said with new coaching blood the scrutiny out there will be more objective. The reality is Cagg is not a good or useful NHL player. He sure isn't his scouting report. He's a bleeder at this level. Somebody responsible for a lot more GA than he creates. Thankfully we've probably seen the last of him on a pk.

That play is on Bear not Caggiula. Bear can obviously see there's a defender right on Caggiula, where as Drake's head is turned back looking for the pass. He had no idea there was a defender right on him. Bear should of held onto the puck or went across the ice to the open Ryan Strome.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Jerabek got beat to the outside by an AHLer for a goal against.

If we're being fair here I think Jerabek just caught an edge on the play. It was a bang bang play on a quick counter. Wouldn't evaluate on the one play. Still, the guy that beat him was still kept to the outside. Where was the other D. It was Mcleod covering back and he went the wrong way. In anycase it was an unexpected turnover and the Oilers were caught. Its a tough play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That play is on Bear not Caggiula. Bear can obviously see there's a defender right on Caggiula, where as Drake's head is turned back looking for the pass. He had no idea there was a defender right on him. Bear should of held onto the puck or went across the ice to the open Ryan Strome.

I don't disagree it wasn't a great pass by Bear but where is the puck support positioning. It is up to Cagg on that sequence to offer puck support and not be covered near the red line. That's the kind of Cagg play that happens frequently. He's a poor puck support player. His GA supports that proposition. This is not an isolated play from Cagg, its habit formed. Essentially he's cheating on the play being too far up, looking for a breakout rush, rather than supporting a sensible break out.

But of the two Cagg is an experienced NHL player and Bear isn't. So guess who I put the blame on for not being better on the play.

 

[Raab]

If we're being fair here I think Jerabek just caught an edge on the play. It was a bang bang play on a quick counter. Wouldn't evaluate on the one play. Still, the guy that beat him was still kept to the outside. Where was the other D. It was Mcleod covering back and he went the wrong way. In anycase it was an unexpected turnover and the Oilers were caught. Its a tough play.

Whether he caught an edge or not his mobility is suspect.

 

[Raab]

I don't disagree it wasn't a great pass by Bear but where is the puck support positioning. It is up to Cagg on that sequence to offer puck support and not be covered near the red line. That's the kind of Cagg play that happens frequently. He's a poor puck support player. His GA supports that proposition. This is not an isolated play from Cagg, its habit formed. Essentially he's cheating on the play being too far up, looking for a breakout rush, rather than supporting a sensible break out.

But of the two Cagg is an experienced NHL player and Bear isn't. So guess who I put the blame on for not being better on the play.

The Oilers were on the PP. No need to rush that pass. Cagguila was hardly cheating, up the ice when Puljujarvi is standing right next to him and Bear is already half way out of the dzone. If he simply makes a nice short cross ice pass to Strome that doesnt happen.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Whether he caught an edge or not his mobility is suspect.

Jerabek and Rieder are both slower than I anticipated.

 

[Raab]

Jerabek and Rieder are both slower than I anticipated.

Me to, thought mobility was supposed to be a strength of Jerabek's.

 

[CupofOil]

For what?

We already have runts like Cagg on the team. In the latest SC final two teams that are very physical, and fair sized played in the cup final. I don't subscribe that the league is actually shifting that dramatically to where size is irrelevant. Its always relevant. Especially in the playoffs.

That small teams win it all is as much of a myth as Tampa being dynastic. Give me size and skill in todays Pacific division.

That "runt" had 3 big playoff goals, several notable hits and a fight that he won so that kills your theory that little guys can't succeed in the playoffs.

This isn't your older brothers's NHL anymore. Smaller guys are succeeding more than ever. Gaudreau, Marchand, DeBrincat, Gallgher, Spurgeon, Ellis, even Ennis for a while etc.
Those guys all have three things in common, speed, skill, Hockey IQ and desire. If you have all of those traits, you can succeed at any level.

I agree that Yamamoto has a bigger uphill climb than most because size is still relevant to some extent and he's as small as it gets but it's his smarts and relentlessness that will carry him to the league. I don't think he will be a star because he doesn't have elite level skill but I can't see him not being a successful NHLer in some respect.

 

[CupofOil]

Sure he has. But not everybody is that player. He's way more talented than Kailer and way more inclined to absorb punishment. Watch the 5th Jets goal last night. Kailer with poor positioning, fails to get to a puck at end boards, fails to make a decision whether to compete for the puck to get back and before you know it he's the last player back and the puck is in our net. Its one of the problems with having a pint sized player that lacks elite compete level. Gaudreau has elite compete level. Kailer is not the same player or quantity. I know we'd want to think so.

I find it mind boggling that you praise Jerebek in one post and then proceed to blame Yamamoto for the 5th goal, a goal in which Jerebek got outright burned by an NHLer.
What about his positioning getting the tip in front on his first goal or him screening the goalie on the Bear goal OR him driving the net on his 2nd goal. Why no mention of those plays but mention of a play in which he was at minimum the 3rd player you should blame in that sequence (Jerebek #1, Gravel #2).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Whether he caught an edge or not his mobility is suspect.

Have you watched Jerabek a lot? I haven't tbh, and if you have then I will defer to that. I'm just not going to crucify the player on one play. I don't think we've seen enough.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I find it mind boggling that you praise Jerebek in one post and then proceed to blame Yamamoto for the 5th goal, a goal in which Jerebek got outright burned by an NHLer.
What about his positioning getting the tip in front on his first goal or him screening the goalie on the Bear goal OR him driving the net on his 2nd goal. Why no mention of those plays but mention of a play in which he was at minimum the 3rd player you should blame in that sequence (Jerebek #1, Gravel #2).

I did mention those plays. Its fair that you don't read all of my posts.

One of my major pet peeves though is players that get caught up high on bad forecheck attempts. The decisioning needs to be better there by Yama. There was no chance he was winning that puck. So why is he there 200ft away when the play is obviously a counter and last man back. I think its fair question.

I get that Kailer is an intriguing player to people here.. I was intrigued last year, this year I'm not. I didn't like his play much in the prospects games and maybe that set a different tone for me. But its his weight, not his play in short sample games that is my concern. I would need to see a lot more for that not to be a concern.

 

[CupofOil]

I did mention those plays. Its fair that you don't read all of my posts.

One of my major pet peeves though is players that get caught up high on bad forecheck attempts. The decisioning needs to be better there by Yama. There was no chance he was winning that puck. So why is he there 200ft away when the play is obviously a counter and last man back. I think its fair question.

I get that Kailer is an intriguing player to people here.. I was intrigued last year, this year I'm not. I didn't like his play much in the prospects games and maybe that set a different tone for me. But its his weight, not his play in short sample games that is my concern. I would need to see a lot more for that not to be a concern.

That's fair.
He will always have an uphill climb to be a consistent top 6 NHLer but he as all the traits needed to succeed at that size so it's just a matter of him proving it.

I can understand the skepticism though, I just felt like you were writing him off in some earlier posts which triggered the many responses that you got.