Prospect Info: Prospect Tournament

[Pavels Dog]

I just see Raymond closer to his top level potential rn as Pasta was at the same age.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe Raymond is close to his top potential, that is pure negativity speaking.

I don't think there is anyone in the organization with the ceiling of Pastrnak, or Marchand/Bergeron for that matter.

No one thought those guys had the ceilings those guys ended up having.

 

[Frk It]

Why are Kasper and Marchand being said in the same sentence and can we stop?

 

[jkutswings]

[ sarcasm ]

It's fun reading Overreaction Theater.

Really, more fans should play the game. For every time somebody declares a prospect a bust / awful / a reach based on these relatively meaningless games, you take a shot.

I had to stop reading the thread somewhere around page 11 or I was gonna pass out.

[ /sarcasm ]

 

[HisNoodliness]

[ sarcasm ]

It's fun reading Overreaction Theater.

Really, more fans should play the game. For every time somebody declares a prospect a bust / awful / a reach based on these relatively meaningless games, you take a shot.

I had to stop reading the thread somewhere around page 11 or I was gonna pass out.

[ /sarcasm ]

If you made it to page 11 then Andre the Giant would have been jealous of your alcohol tolerance.

Why are Kasper and Marchand being said in the same sentence and can we stop?

Especially because I don't think they're all that similar. They're both tenacious and not huge... and the similarities end there.

 

[Frk It]

If you made it to page 11 then Andre the Giant would have been jealous of your alcohol tolerance.


Especially because I don't think they're all that similar. They're both tenacious and not huge... and the similarities end there.

5'9 shithead winger and 6'1 two way center.

Totes the same...

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Why are Kasper and Marchand being said in the same sentence and can we stop?

Because Kasper is physical and pisses off the opposition? That's about the only parallel I can draw. It's not a very good one because Kasper is physical as part of the game. Marchand is a pest just to be a pest.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Because Kasper is physical and pisses off the opposition? That's about the only parallel I can draw. It's not a very good one because Kasper is physical as part of the game. Marchand is a pest just to be a pest.

You almost said them together in a sentence again

 

[Cake Eater]

There is absolutely zero reason to believe Raymond is close to his top potential, that is pure negativity speaking.

Re-read my comment, I said closer to it than Pasta was his. Not that Raymond is close to his potential.

 

[heyfolks]

I see Cossa back in Toledo. I will say this, I hope the optimists/upside takes on Cossa are right. I want to eat crow on this one, but he spit the bit at Juniors, didn't carry his junior team to the top and was pulled in the must win playoff game to end last season.

 

[RRhoads]

Re-read my comment, I said closer to it than Pasta was his. Not that Raymond is close to his potential.

Why do you think that?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I see Cossa back in Toledo. I will say this, I hope the optimists/upside takes on Cossa are right. I want to eat crow on this one, but he spit the bit at Juniors, didn't carry his junior team to the top and was pulled in the must win playoff game to end last season.

I hope you're wrong but my gut is telling me you'll at least be partially right.

 

[heyfolks]

I hope you're wrong but my gut is telling me you'll at least be partially right.

I want to be wrong, but he still lacks that consistency in his game. The worst part of that, is he seems to falter in the biggest games.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I see Cossa back in Toledo. I will say this, I hope the optimists/upside takes on Cossa are right. I want to eat crow on this one, but he spit the bit at Juniors, didn't carry his junior team to the top and was pulled in the must win playoff game to end last season.

Yeah, with Cossa I'm always reminding myself of a two things: 1. my impression is negatively skewed because my limited viewings have mostly been off nights, and 2. goalies are Voodoo and take unpredictable development paths. This allows me to discount what I've seen from him and bank on his high end physical tools turning him into a great goalie after he develops. I would much prefer if he'd just play well so I don't have to convince myself that he has potential. You know how some prospects give you a good feeling whenever you watch them even if they have a bad game. Their game just sort of clicks in a satisfying way. Cossa gives me a bad feeling and I'm constantly fighting that pessimism whenever we talk about him.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Why are Kasper and Marchand being said in the same sentence and can we stop?

No shit on that. Agreed.

 

[izlez]

I see Cossa back in Toledo. I will say this, I hope the optimists/upside takes on Cossa are right. I want to eat crow on this one, but he spit the bit at Juniors, didn't carry his junior team to the top and was pulled in the must win playoff game to end last season.

I want to be wrong, but he still lacks that consistency in his game. The worst part of that, is he seems to falter in the biggest games.

Maybe you have more examples, but this just seems like needlessly forcing a small sample size.

Oil Kings Playoffs: .919 sv% in 19 games
World Juniors: .917 sv% in 1 game
Toledo playoffs: .917 sv% in 7 games

There is plenty of reason for concern with Cossa. I don't agree with basing so much on 1 game.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, with Cossa I'm always reminding myself of a two things: 1. my impression is negatively skewed because my limited viewings have mostly been off nights, and 2. goalies are Voodoo and take unpredictable development paths. This allows me to discount what I've seen from him and bank on his high end physical tools turning him into a great goalie after he develops. I would much prefer if he'd just play well so I don't have to convince myself that he has potential. You know how some prospects give you a good feeling whenever you watch them even if they have a bad game. Their game just sort of clicks in a satisfying way. Cossa gives me a bad feeling and I'm constantly fighting that pessimism whenever we talk about him.

I don't buy into the "goalies are voodoo" saying. The best goalies typically exhibit exceptional play at all levels as they move up. It's not always the case because sometimes you get a guy like Howard or Mrazek who were great in the A but fair to middling in the NHL. (Though Howard had about a 4 year stretch where he was, in my opinion, top 10 in the league)

Then look at other guys that struggle after they leave junior to play in pros. Many of them don't go on to do much, or have very inconsistent careers. You can look at the stats of some of the worst goalies in the NHL and look at their minor league numbers. There's a good chance they weren't very good

Guys like Tim Thomas don't come along very often as the guy who finally got "it" after a million years in the minors. Most of the time if a goalie is trash in their first 2 seasons in the minor pro levels then they're not going to be shit in the NHL.

This isn't me saying Cossa is going to be shit. This is me saying it's something to be wary of and may make many people change their expectations of the kid.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I don't buy into the "goalies are voodoo" saying. The best goalies typically exhibit exceptional play at all levels as they move up. It's not always the case because sometimes you get a guy like Howard or Mrazek who were great in the A but fair to middling in the NHL. (Though Howard had about a 4 year stretch where he was, in my opinion, top 10 in the league)

Then look at other guys that struggle after they leave junior to play in pros. Many of them don't go on to do much, or have very inconsistent careers. You can look at the stats of some of the worst goalies in the NHL and look at their minor league numbers. There's a good chance they weren't very good

Guys like Tim Thomas don't come along very often as the guy who finally got "it" after a million years in the minors. Most of the time if a goalie is trash in their first 2 seasons in the minor pro levels then they're not going to be shit in the NHL.

This isn't me saying Cossa is going to be shit. This is me saying it's something to be wary of and may make many people change their expectations of the kid.

I know I am in the minority here but I actually liked howard. You could tell he was a really good goalie and when our defense started to dwindle after lidstrom and rafalski left, he had to overcompensate a lot with his side to side movement and then groin pulls started happening more and more. At that point, and I have had two complete groin pulls so I know the feeling, you are going to think about it every time you move laterally after pushing off. The only time you stop thinking about it or having it in the back of your mind is after moving laterally so many times that nothing has happened and all of a sudden a year or two goes by and it hasn't been pulled again.

That's why when I heard Husso pull his groin I think, it was frustrating because of the projection that could possibly happen. The good think is that he is younger, but still. (i saw it say lower body injury and I don't think they ever said groin pull, but not many lower body injuries that are nagging and hurt your lateral movement, so I'll take a very good educated guess that it was a groin pull).

 

[heyfolks]

Maybe you have more examples, but this just seems like needlessly forcing a small sample size.

Oil Kings Playoffs: .919 sv% in 19 games
World Juniors: .917 sv% in 1 game
Toledo playoffs: .917 sv% in 7 games

There is plenty of reason for concern with Cossa. I don't agree with basing so much on 1 game.

Did the Kings win it all?
Why only 1 game at world juniors?
What happened in his final game in the post season with Toledo?

Any top pick is going to have a solid large sample size. What I am saying is a goalie needs to come up big on the large stage. He has yet to do that. I want him to be better but this prospect camp was not good.


Sebastian Cossa’s struggles continued Sunday at the NHL Prospects Tournament in Traverse City.


Cossa allowed six goals on 18 shots and the Toronto Maple Leafs came back to defeat the Detroit Red Wings 6-5 at Centre I.C.E. Arena in Traverse City.

Sebastian Cossa struggles again as Red Wings finish 0-3 at Prospects Tournament

Cross Hanas had his second two-goal game in as many days.

www.mlive.com

 

[heyfolks]

Yeah, with Cossa I'm always reminding myself of a two things: 1. my impression is negatively skewed because my limited viewings have mostly been off nights, and 2. goalies are Voodoo and take unpredictable development paths. This allows me to discount what I've seen from him and bank on his high end physical tools turning him into a great goalie after he develops. I would much prefer if he'd just play well so I don't have to convince myself that he has potential. You know how some prospects give you a good feeling whenever you watch them even if they have a bad game. Their game just sort of clicks in a satisfying way. Cossa gives me a bad feeling and I'm constantly fighting that pessimism whenever we talk about him.

Great post. We are in that fight together. When I see him off cie he is always so arrogant. On one side you want that swagger with your goalie, on the other I am hardly impressed with wins in Toledo and getting pulled in the deciding game. He then has a real tough prospect camp. Always the same retort, and I accept that it takes time and goalies are tough to project. Yet, accepting that as true, why move up for him? Just take whichever netminder is available and keep the pick.

 

[izlez]

Did the Kings win it all?
Why only 1 game at world juniors?
What happened in his final game in the post season with Toledo?

Any top pick is going to have a solid large sample size. What I am saying is a goalie needs to come up big on the large stage. He has yet to do that. I want him to be better but this prospect camp was not good.


Sebastian Cossa’s struggles continued Sunday at the NHL Prospects Tournament in Traverse City.


Cossa allowed six goals on 18 shots and the Toronto Maple Leafs came back to defeat the Detroit Red Wings 6-5 at Centre I.C.E. Arena in Traverse City.

Sebastian Cossa struggles again as Red Wings finish 0-3 at Prospects Tournament

Cross Hanas had his second two-goal game in as many days.

www.mlive.com

The oil kings won the WHL championship. With Cossa getting a shutout in the final game.

Why only 1 game in the World Juniors? I don't recall. He seemed to play good in the game he got. But, again we're talking about him playing bad in the biggest games. Being replaced as the starter or whatever is not him playing bad in the biggest games.

His numbers were terrible in the final Toledo game. I addressed that. And that's my point. I don't think we should be basing his entire reputation in big games based off of 1 game.

and scrimmages are the opposite of big games

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The oil kings won the WHL championship. With Cossa getting a shutout in the final game.

Why only 1 game in the World Juniors? I don't recall. He seemed to play good in the game he got. But, again we're talking about him playing bad in the biggest games. Being replaced as the starter or whatever is not him playing bad in the biggest games.

His numbers were terrible in the final Toledo game. I addressed that. And that's my point. I don't think we should be basing his entire reputation in big games based off of 1 game.

and scrimmages are the opposite of big games

One thing I think of whenever it's mentioned about the TC tournament just being scrimmages is how angry Hasek would get when he let in a goal in practice. Or how guys like Lundqvist and Brodeur would ask for a play to be run back if he let a shot in. THAT mentality is what I want to see more of from Cossa instead of the, "it's just practice." mentality.

 

[Detroit Knights]

One thing I think of whenever it's mentioned about the TC tournament just being scrimmages is how angry Hasek would get when he let in a goal in practice. Or how guys like Lundqvist and Brodeur would ask for a play to be run back if he let a shot in. THAT mentality is what I want to see more of from Cossa instead of the, "it's just practice." mentality.

 

[Henkka]

What comes to Cossa, just forget him for the next 3 years. You guys are so damn unpatient.

There's now a new Finnish goalie coach at Griffins hired from Finland. He has developed many goalies to NHL draft picks, from same Kärpät organization. It looked in last years for somekind of goalie factory.

Cossa is now starting to work with this guy. It takes time and seasons, but let them work. There could be bigger things like changing his style incoming, who knows. Results will be seen later on.

 

[izlez]

One thing I think of whenever it's mentioned about the TC tournament just being scrimmages is how angry Hasek would get when he let in a goal in practice. Or how guys like Lundqvist and Brodeur would ask for a play to be run back if he let a shot in. THAT mentality is what I want to see more of from Cossa instead of the, "it's just practice." mentality.

Cool. Cossa didn't come out and say "lol its just practice IDGAFLOL". I did. A guy on a message board.

If you want every time he steps in the crease to be a championship game to him, great. I'm pretty sure we've seen that he is a bit of a psychopath like that. But, that's also the opposite of worrying about how he plays in big games.