Prospect Thread XIX

[GetFocht]

Blomstrand is a bigger Hansen :O

 

[me2]

Here's a photo of the HF writers having a serious discussion about NHL prospects.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Young Star Classic Tournament Roster

http://canucks.nhl.com/v2/ext/2013 Penticton Roster.pdf

 

[StIllmatic]

I don't know why Cannata isn't playing... unless I missed his name.

 

[dave babych returns]

So I was watching the Jordan Subban highlight video and it got me curious about OHL rink sizes.

Anyway I dug this post up, it may be out of date now (six years old) but it looks like Belleville has the only international sheet in the league and the only one wider than 85 feet for that matter.

Anyone else curious what kind of impact that might have on a player's production at that level? Especially a player like Subban that is probably better served with more space to exploit his skating advantage..

It would be interesting to be able to see home/road splits for some of the Bulls players given the significant difference in rinks, but I wouldn't guess anyone has done that and put it online..

 

[Wisp]

PK Subban played on the same ice, so...

 

[Tiranis]

It would be interesting to be able to see home/road splits for some of the Bulls players given the significant difference in rinks, but I wouldn't guess anyone has done that and put it online..

Gaunce has 10 goals and 14 assists in 29 away games. Subban has 21 points in 34 games. Completely worthless info though since I have no idea what the normal OHL distribution is and also because of the sample size. Most of the difference for Subban, for example, comes from a 5 game hot streak where they played 4 home games and 1 away game and Subban racked up 11 points (9 of them at home).

---

As far as skating being an advantage on the big ice, there's actually some evidence that the bigger ice is more friendly to slower players because they have more room to use their skill and don't have to worry about players being on them as quickly as they would on small ice. If you look at the KHL, SEL, etc. you'll find that a lot of the top players that never make it across have skating as a weakness.

 

[dave babych returns]

Interesting, thanks Tiranis. Where did you look up those stats? (Tell me you had to look them up... )

As for the note about players who fail to transition to North American hockey, that's a good point. I had started out thinking about Subban and immediately jumped to a guy like Rafalski who obviously had some great success on the big ice but I guess a good player is going to be a good player wherever they are.

At any rate it would be interesting to who whether / to what extent OHL teams have to change their gameplan in Belleville, or whether the Bulls try to exploit their familiarity with the bigger ice at all.. maybe I'll follow that tangent later on.

 

[Tiranis]

Interesting, thanks Tiranis. Where did you look up those stats? (Tell me you had to look them up... )

Just added it up myself from their OHL stats page (pasted it into Excel and then just used a formula to calculate it).

 

[dave babych returns]

I totally missed the game log on there.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

What is the viewpoint on Cain Franson? His numbers compare with with other draftees what are his weaknesses seen as. He is eligible to play as an overager with the Giants this year, (I think). All i can do is number scout but he brother plays in the NHL, Cain still looks like he has some filling out to do, and he scored at a good rate on a last place team. Seems like he might be worth a good look at prospect camp.

 

[denkiteki]

My Utica Comets point predictions for this year, I didnt do all just the ones im interested in. I like to see how far off i am.

Alex Mallet 4 Goals 12 Assists
Peter Anderson 6 Goals 15 Assists
Nicklas Jensen 21 Goals 10 Assists
Ludwig Blomstrand 10 Goals 20 Assists
Yann Sauve 2 Goals 11 Assists
Henrik Tommernes 9 Goals 24 Assists
Darren Archibald 26 Goals 22 Assists
Alex Grenier 12 Goals 12 Assists
Adam Polasek 5 Goals 9 Assists
Kellan Lain 2 Goals 8 Assists
Alex Friesen 5 Goals 10 Assists
Zach Hamill 20 Goals 20 Assists
Frank Corrado 13 Goals 25 Assists

Let me get this straight... you're expecting 2 dmans to out produce Jensen who will likely be a top 6 forward on the team? On top of that, all 3 are basically rookies (or first full season) in the AHL and both dmans are less experience than Jensen in terms of pro hockey (since Jensen was pretty much playing pro hockey all year last year). Unless Jensen misses a decent number of games, anything less than 30 goals from him would be shock.

Tommernes is a good offensive dman but he isn't going to produce that much in his first year in NA hockey. It takes time to adapt so forget him getting 33 points in his rookie year. Corrado isn't likely going to score more than 10 goals either. He score 10 goals in his last 2 seasons COMBINED.

 

[mrbitterguy]

As far as skating being an advantage on the big ice, there's actually some evidence that the bigger ice is more friendly to slower players because they have more room to use their skill and don't have to worry about players being on them as quickly as they would on small ice. If you look at the KHL, SEL, etc. you'll find that a lot of the top players that never make it across have skating as a weakness.

as a beer league player of marginal talent and even more marginal skating ability i would agree with this. i play one league where most of the games are on olympic ice, and another league in a rink a good deal smaller than a regulation nhl rink. it is much much harder to get anything done offensively on the small rink because there is always defense in close proximity. on the big rink if you manage to beat one guy you have some room to operate.

<grains of salt and all that.>

 

[Barney Gumble]

OT - Just noticed looking thru Canucks drafting history (kind of depressing in spots lol...) that we used a 5th round selection on a prospect name Dirk Graham. He never played a single game for the Canucks & signed as a free agent for the Minnesota North Stars after some decent minor league seasons. A number of years later, as a Black Hawk, he would win the Frank Selke trophy.

Just typical "Canuck luck".....we often pick busts/medicore players....and when our scouts do find a gem - we don't even bother giving the guy a contract.

 

[Spamhuis]

OT - Just noticed looking thru Canucks drafting history (kind of depressing in spots lol...) that we used a 5th round selection on a prospect name Dirk Graham. He never played a single game for the Canucks & signed as a free agent for the Minnesota North Stars after some decent minor league seasons. A number of years later, as a Black Hawk, he would win the Frank Selke trophy.

Just typical "Canuck luck".....we often pick busts/medicore players....and when our scouts do find a gem - we don't even bother giving the guy a contract.

Best thing about Graham's bio: he played for the Toledo Goaldiggers lol what a great team name

 

[ZKass The Bass]

OT - Just noticed looking thru Canucks drafting history (kind of depressing in spots lol...) that we used a 5th round selection on a prospect name Dirk Graham. He never played a single game for the Canucks & signed as a free agent for the Minnesota North Stars after some decent minor league seasons. A number of years later, as a Black Hawk, he would win the Frank Selke trophy.

Just typical "Canuck luck".....we often pick busts/medicore players....and when our scouts do find a gem - we don't even bother giving the guy a contract.

that's hilarious.

 

[Wisp]

Hey guys remember when we traded Stovanov for Naslund? What an awful day for the history of our franchise!

Remember how well undrafted Burrows has worked for us so far, too? Just awful. Didn't make up for anything.

The selective memory crap makes me want to slit my wrists. Luck has cut this franchise and all the others both ways.

 

[How Ya Drouin]

OT - Just noticed looking thru Canucks drafting history (kind of depressing in spots lol...) that we used a 5th round selection on a prospect name Dirk Graham. He never played a single game for the Canucks & signed as a free agent for the Minnesota North Stars after some decent minor league seasons. A number of years later, as a Black Hawk, he would win the Frank Selke trophy.

Just typical "Canuck luck".....we often pick busts/medicore players....and when our scouts do find a gem - we don't even bother giving the guy a contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Brownlee

This guy is even worse. A 6th round pick of his quality not even signed by the Canucks! And he was nominated for a Juno this year!

EDIT: At least if Corrado doesn't make the NHL, he has somebody to look up to.

 

[Wisp]

Corrado plays mean guitar, too.

 

[How Ya Drouin]

Corrado plays mean guitar, too.

 

[Wilch]

as a beer league player of marginal talent and even more marginal skating ability i would agree with this. i play one league where most of the games are on olympic ice, and another league in a rink a good deal smaller than a regulation nhl rink. it is much much harder to get anything done offensively on the small rink because there is always defense in close proximity. on the big rink if you manage to beat one guy you have some room to operate.

<grains of salt and all that.>

One more grain of salt from me. Olympic ice gives player a hell of a lot more time to slow down their game and pass more because how spread out everyone is.

Also, guys with quick acceleration tend to benefit more from smaller ice.

 

[Guardian452]

What is the viewpoint on Cain Franson? His numbers compare with with other draftees what are his weaknesses seen as. He is eligible to play as an overager with the Giants this year, (I think). All i can do is number scout but he brother plays in the NHL, Cain still looks like he has some filling out to do, and he scored at a good rate on a last place team. Seems like he might be worth a good look at prospect camp.

Lack of size. Think of him as a skinnier version of Mason Raymond with average speed and quickness.

 

[stevecanuck16]

Hey guys remember when we traded Stovanov for Naslund? What an awful day for the history of our franchise!

Remember how well undrafted Burrows has worked for us so far, too? Just awful. Didn't make up for anything.

The selective memory crap makes me want to slit my wrists. Luck has cut this franchise and all the others both ways.

It's not selective memory, Wisp. It's a complete and total ignorance of hockey outside of the Vancouver Canucks. Things seem a lot worse when you think you're the only real team in the league and don't realize there are 29 others.

 

[Guardian452]

OT - Just noticed looking thru Canucks drafting history (kind of depressing in spots lol...) that we used a 5th round selection on a prospect name Dirk Graham. He never played a single game for the Canucks & signed as a free agent for the Minnesota North Stars after some decent minor league seasons. A number of years later, as a Black Hawk, he would win the Frank Selke trophy.

Just typical "Canuck luck".....we often pick busts/medicore players....and when our scouts do find a gem - we don't even bother giving the guy a contract.

Actually, he spent a year in the Cancucks' minor league system. He played with the Dallas Blackhawks who were the Canucks top-farm team at the time. The Canucks seem to have given up on him after one year, though.

 

[IComeInPeace]

Actually, he spent a year in the Cancucks' minor league system. He played with the Dallas Blackhawks who were the Canucks top-farm team at the time. The Canucks seem to have given up on him after one year, though.

He played for Dallas after finishing junior and then also played another season as Canucks property, his time with Toledo in '80-'81.
It was after that season, for whatever reason, him and the 'Nucks chose to part ways. Graham was apparently offered some type of contract but decided not to sign. He played 2 more seasons with Toledo before becoming a UFA, who would sign with the Stars.

In that '79 draft the Canucks only had 6 picks. Rick Vaive and Brent Ashton went on to have very good NHL careers. So did Dirk. All 3 of those guys would have looked great in a Canucks uniform.

Those old Canuck teams drafted a lot better than they are given credit for. It's developing those players they sucked at, and the poor decisions they made with some of those guys.

Dirk was let go for nothing in return. Nothing.

I love Stan Smyl; Graham was for those Hawks very similar to Smyl. Those two playing together would have been amazing. Two heart and soul guys, with skill, tremendous grit and leadership, and totally fearless...