Prospect Discussion: Kasperi Kapanen

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Mark my words: KK will be with the Leafs next season.

I would rather put my money on him playing for other team next season.

 

[burpsalot]

Rico Fata ... enough said?

What team did his dad play on?

 

[Walshy7]

Does he proccess the game at full speed? They say thats what sets mcdavid apart from other fast players. That and his actual speed with the puck.

How does kapanen do in those categories?

he still plays with skill at high speed he isnt just a fast skater like grabner or something. He is not and never will be mcdavid though obviously

 

[Warden of the North]

KK will either be a Leaf or with another NHL team. Hes ready, the question is whether or not its here.

 

[Narow]

he still plays with skill at high speed he isnt just a fast skater like grabner or something. He is not and never will be mcdavid though obviously

Haha es i was not comparing him to mcdavid.

But good to hear speed alone is not enough

 

[Diatomic]

I would rather put my money on him playing for other team next season.

I don't think so... Whens the last time we traded away a 1st round prospect under 21.

 

[firstemperor]

KK will either be a Leaf or with another NHL team. Hes ready, the question is whether or not its here.

Should be here, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're trading him now, we're probably going to be selling low on Kappy. He's probably undervalued for his upside. Speedy and skilled 2-way player, with utility (able to play the PK), that is having a great year in the AHL at his age. He'd immediately be the fastest player on the team if he were called up today.

We traded and retained on Kessel to get him. If he doesn't pan out, the Kessel deal looks even more bad. Not to say we shouldn't have done it, but retrospectively, Dubas got taken to the cleaners on it.

 

[catgoldfish]

Should be here, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're trading him now, we're probably going to be selling low on Kappy. He's probably undervalued for his upside. Speedy and skilled 2-way player, with utility (able to play the PK), that is having a great year in the AHL at his age. He'd immediately be the fastest player on the team if he were called up today.
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We traded and retained on Kessel to get him. If he doesn't pan out, the Kessel deal looks even more bad. Not to say we shouldn't have done it, but retrospectively, Dubas got taken to the cleaners on it.

I would never say Dubas made a bad trade. We needed to move on from Kessel and the rest of the oldies we had. It was nice to get some guys and picks back but it was awesome to rid ourselves of Kessel and his horrid contract.

 

[TeamBester]

When did Dubas start making trades?

 

[Jeypic]

Should be here, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're trading him now, we're probably going to be selling low on Kappy. He's probably undervalued for his upside. Speedy and skilled 2-way player, with utility (able to play the PK), that is having a great year in the AHL at his age. He'd immediately be the fastest player on the team if he were called up today.

We traded and retained on Kessel to get him. If he doesn't pan out, the Kessel deal looks even more bad. Not to say we shouldn't have done it, but retrospectively, Dubas got taken to the cleaners on it.

Not a fan of kessel for Andersen, kapanen, and Matthews?

 

[firstemperor]

Not a fan of kessel for Andersen, kapanen, and Matthews?

We shouldn't have taken retention on the deal. Kessel was one of the best players on the Pens cup run and helped them win a cup in year 1 post-trade. It's no secret why Lou was hired shortly after. Probably one of the few moments I wavered on my trust in management as Dubas messing up the Kessel deal was a sign he was a poor negotiator- this is impactful moving forward for future trades, signings, etc.

I acknowledge we had little leverage with Kessel's NTC and that he had to be moved. But taking salary back on the deal was the kicker. I'm not convinced we couldn't have gotten a lot better.

Re: Andersen, I see that trade as a separate transaction. It's clear we won the deal (from our perspective, value wise) but Ducks also had no leverage and we hit the goalie market at a fortunate and lucky time. After the Jones, Lehner trade, we were able to get a steal.

 

[burpsalot]

We shouldn't have taken retention on the deal. Kessel was one of the best players on the Pens cup run and helped them win a cup in year 1 post-trade. It's no secret why Lou was hired shortly after. Probably one of the few moments I wavered on my trust in management as Dubas messing up the Kessel deal was a sign he was a poor negotiator- this is impactful moving forward for future trades, signings, etc.

I acknowledge we had little leverage with Kessel's NTC and that he had to be moved. But taking salary back on the deal was the kicker. I'm not convinced we couldn't have gotten a lot better.

Re: Andersen, I see that trade as a separate transaction. It's clear we won the deal but Ducks also had no leverage and we hit the goalie market at a fortunate and lucky time. After the Jones, Lehner trade, we were able to get a steal.

The purpose of retention is exactly a situation like this. We met a cap challenged teams needs & got the trade completed. Who gives a rats ass that we retained, we still have 2 slots & so long as we don't efff up any future contracts like the old management did, we are good.

& it wasn't Dubas, it was Shanahan, who was already working on bringing Lou on board for a few months.

 

[Jeypic]

We shouldn't have taken retention on the deal. Kessel was one of the best players on the Pens cup run and helped them win a cup in year 1 post-trade. It's no secret why Lou was hired shortly after. Probably one of the few moments I wavered on my trust in management as Dubas messing up the Kessel deal was a sign he was a poor negotiator- this is impactful moving forward for future trades, signings, etc.

I acknowledge we had little leverage with Kessel's NTC and that he had to be moved. But taking salary back on the deal was the kicker. I'm not convinced we couldn't have gotten a lot better.

Re: Andersen, I see that trade as a separate transaction. It's clear we won the deal (from our perspective, value wise) but Ducks also had no leverage and we hit the goalie market at a fortunate and lucky time. After the Jones, Lehner trade, we were able to get a steal.

It was the only offer we had as sellers. Pittsburgh couldn't afford him on the cap otherwise. So to you that first round pick we acquired just stayed as nothing... And kapanen is basically nothing, because he's nylanders age and isn't in the show yet even though he's ppg in the ahl at 20. And we could have tanked with kessel and still acquired Matthews. With that logic I guess we got hosed.

Just because Pittsburgh won the trade does not mean we lost.

 

[4thline]

We got their 2nd best D prospect. Had we gotten their 1st people would have called it a great trade.

Their 1st is struggling to transition to the NHL
Their 2nd (since traded) is playing as 6-7 on a contending team
Their 3rd is now a steady top 4 dman.

*in retrospect* The only way we got hosed if we wanted Dumoulin and they refused. If we had a choice between Dumo and Harrington though that's definitely one of those try and shake it off while it keeps you up at night decisions

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

We couldn't have had Matthews if Kessel was still here. We were rock bottom last year because they couldn't score to save their lives. Kessel for Andersen, Kapanen and best shot at Matthews was totally worth it for us. You can't start the rebuild with players that can hurt the tank. The sole purpose for trading Kessel was to get the tank job done.

 

[firstemperor]

The purpose of retention is exactly a situation like this. We met a cap challenged teams needs & got the trade completed. Who gives a rats ass that we retained, we still have 2 slots & so long as we don't efff up any future contracts like the old management did, we are good.

& it wasn't Dubas, it was Shanahan, who was already working on bringing Lou on board for a few months.

As I've said, I'm not convinced Dubas got the best return on Kessel and it should have left most, objective and rational fans worried about his role long-term as a negotiator. People in the Burke and JFJ era tried to justify every trash trade/transaction that was made as well. Komisarek signing, Connolly signing, initial Kessel deal, Perrault trade, Steen trade, list goes on were all blatantly bad from the second they happened. I've been a Leaf fan too long to give into blind faith and mediocrity.

Retaining 1.2m AAV until 2021-2022 in a cap world for Phil Kessel, who has proven he is a legitimate star in this league, given the return he got as is (Kap + very late 1st + fillers) is far short of what we should have expected as a fanbase.

And kapanen is basically nothing, because he's nylanders age and isn't in the show yet

I'm one of biggest Kapanen's biggest fans. We overlook him due to the youth on this team and he's a legitimate A-/B+ prospect. Look how Nuck fans have reacted to Goldobin. Someone who I see as markedly worst.

Going back to my initial post, I haven't made my full conclusion on the Kessel trade until we see what we have in Kap. If Kap becomes the player I think he can be, I may prospectively upgrade the deal from what I see as bad -> acceptable/fair. The truth is, Kessel will be a star for years to come. We should have got a better return for him, period. We have yet to get a single, legitimate, NHL caliber player from the trade. There will never again, be a time in my life as a Leafs fan where I accept mediocrity or give into blind faith into garbage management ever again.

 

[Jeypic]

As I've said, I'm not convinced Dubas got the best return on Kessel and it should have left most, objective and rational fans worried about his role long-term as a negotiator. People in the Burke and JFJ era tried to justify every trash trade/transaction that was made as well. Komisarek signing, Connolly signing, initial Kessel deal, Perrault trade, Steen trade, list goes on were all blatantly bad from the second they happened. I've been a Leaf fan too long to give into blind faith and mediocrity.

Retaining 1.2m AAV until 2021-2022 in a cap world for Phil Kessel, who has proven he is a legitimate star in this league, given the return he got as is (Kap + very late 1st + fillers) is far short of what we should have expected as a fanbase.



I'm one of biggest Kapanen's biggest fans. We overlook him due to the youth on this team and he's a legitimate A-/B+ prospect. Look how Nuck fans have reacted to Goldobin. Someone who I see as markedly worst.

Going back to my initial post, I haven't made my full conclusion on the Kessel trade until we see what we have in Kap. If Kap becomes the player I think he can be, I may prospectively upgrade the deal from what I see as bad -> acceptable/fair. The truth is, Kessel will be a star for years to come. We should have got a better return for him, period. We have yet to get a single, legitimate, NHL caliber player from the trade. There will never again, be a time in my life as a Leafs fan where I accept mediocrity or give into blind faith into garbage management ever again.

Shanahan made the trade. Not Dubas. Why do you keep claiming dubas made the trade? And that first we got turned into Andersen which is a legitimate NHL caliber player whether you like it or not. It didn't just stay a first forever. Nor will kapanen stay in the ahl forever.

 

[Stephen]

We shouldn't have taken retention on the deal. Kessel was one of the best players on the Pens cup run and helped them win a cup in year 1 post-trade. It's no secret why Lou was hired shortly after. Probably one of the few moments I wavered on my trust in management as Dubas messing up the Kessel deal was a sign he was a poor negotiator- this is impactful moving forward for future trades, signings, etc.

I acknowledge we had little leverage with Kessel's NTC and that he had to be moved. But taking salary back on the deal was the kicker. I'm not convinced we couldn't have gotten a lot better.

Re: Andersen, I see that trade as a separate transaction. It's clear we won the deal (from our perspective, value wise) but Ducks also had no leverage and we hit the goalie market at a fortunate and lucky time. After the Jones, Lehner trade, we were able to get a steal.

The point was to turn the page on that era, and mission accomplished.

 

[Warden of the North]

Should be here, at least for the foreseeable future. If we're trading him now, we're probably going to be selling low on Kappy. He's probably undervalued for his upside. Speedy and skilled 2-way player, with utility (able to play the PK), that is having a great year in the AHL at his age. He'd immediately be the fastest player on the team if he were called up today.

We traded and retained on Kessel to get him. If he doesn't pan out, the Kessel deal looks even more bad. Not to say we shouldn't have done it, but retrospectively, Dubas got taken to the cleaners on it.

I didnt say to give him away. Only deal him if an appropriate deal comes up.

Heres a scenario we might see: Vegas's strength post expansion draft will likely be on D, while their forwards will most likely be putrid (the draft simulator puts the potential D available as a lot more attractive then F. They will need talented forwards.

What if Vegas offers us a solid, controllable, 2nd pair dman for Kapanen? Its a deal I would strongly consider.

 

[firstemperor]

Shanahan made the trade. Not Dubas. Why do you keep claiming dubas made the trade? And that first we got turned into Andersen which is a legitimate NHL caliber player whether you like it or not. It didn't just stay a first forever. Nor will kapanen stay in the ahl forever.

He may have been involved but from what I read in articles at the time, Dubas was the one who orchestrated it/did most if not all of the negotiation.

As I've said using the Andersen trade to justify the Kessel trade is poor logic. They are seperate entities. We could have just as easily, offered other futures for Andersen- the Ducks had zero leverage and had to move him/Gibson for cap reasons. The goalie market was bad at the time and we cashed in. This is poor and elementary thinking.

Re: Matthews- Don't disagree that the Kessel trade contributed to us being bad enough to have a shot at him. But we were also incredibly lucky and many other factors within the season (such as shutting down JVR early, playing AHL/ECHL players on a nightly basis) contributed to it as well. It was a perfect storm but to chalk it up as solely moving Kessel is a fallacy. Who knows what would have happened afterwards- we could have just as easily shut down Kessel, moved Kessel for a better return/at a later date.

The point was to turn the page on that era, and mission accomplished.

Sure, and I don't disagree. And I was fully on the move Kessel boat far before it happened. But the return wasn't good, nor fair. It wasn't horrible either. It's somewhere in between bad->acceptable but closer on the bad end, all things considered- for the aforementioned reasons.

It's also a bit of a generalization to say Kessel defined that era but I do agree, in general.

 

[burpsalot]

He may have been involved but from what I read in articles at the time, Dubas was the one who orchestrated it/did most if not all of the negotiation.

You are incorrect.

 

[firstemperor]

You are incorrect.

Not what I've read and heard, but this doesn't deter from the premise of my point regardless.

What if Vegas offers us a solid, controllable, 2nd pair dman for Kapanen? Its a deal I would strongly consider.

Didn't mean to suggest otherwise but definitely something we'd look into, hypothetically. My general point was Kap is a underappreciated asset to some degree right now, at least per the media (#22ish? on Pronman's prospect rankings, unranked on Buttons top 50 prospect ranking list). We're talking about someone who's stock might shoot up even more, depending on how you feel about him.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'd probably wait a while longer before judging the Kessel trade. As it stands the trade has netted the Leafs: Kapanen, Andersen, Rychel, and Greenway

Andy is already paying dividends in a meaningful way. Kap has been on a great development curve and is definitely a blue chip prospect with potential as a top line winger. Rychel is having a good year for the Marlies (leading them in scoring now after today IIRC) and could be making an impact next year. And Greenway is looking like a promising d-prospect with a nice toolbox of size, skating, skill, and toughness.

If Kap can score 25 goals and net 50-55 points, while demonstrating a strong two way game that kills penalties .... That's almost as valuable as Kessel

 

[Community]

Kapanen is a prospect that got overshadowed by the big 3, and beat out by older/more developed prospects (Brown & Hyman) this year. His value will probably double (or more) by the end of next year. I doubt he is moved for this very reason. If we get an offer that we think meets his value and ends with us acquiring a top 4 Dman, then he might be gone, but I don't think a lot of GMs consider him worth a top 4 Dman at this point and even less have the option of trading one of those away for a 21yo prospect.


Keep him, much more likely a team would trade a young top 4 Dman (or soon to be top 4 Dman) for JVR than Kapanen in my honest opinion. I'm looking at you LV and your, "we want to be competitive" comments.

 

[egd27]

The purpose of retention is exactly a situation like this. We met a cap challenged teams needs & got the trade completed. Who gives a rats ass that we retained, we still have 2 slots & so long as we don't efff up any future contracts like the old management did, we are good.

& it wasn't Dubas, it was Shanahan, who was already working on bringing Lou on board for a few months.

So Dubas does nothing relating to the big club?