It really does not matter what anyone here thinks. JD and JK have made the judgment call that they are paid to make. If it is the opposite of what Howson would do, well, that is not necessarily a negative.
Speculation: Prospal's play and the gentleman's agreement
- Thread starter jdhebner
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SuperGenius
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Jaxs
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I would like for Vinny to be back, but it doesn't look like that will happen for the many reasons listed in this thread.
The one thing that has me most concerned is similar to when Malhotra and Peca were not resigned. That was a different time and place in the organization, but leadership is the key to the room. Having guys like Johnson and Dubinsky most likely saves the day.
We have all seen how a fractured room can change a team and not for the better. I am not saying that the team has lost it's leader. Vinny is the one or at least one of the guys that got this thing heading in the right direction.
The one thing that has me most concerned is similar to when Malhotra and Peca were not resigned. That was a different time and place in the organization, but leadership is the key to the room. Having guys like Johnson and Dubinsky most likely saves the day.
We have all seen how a fractured room can change a team and not for the better. I am not saying that the team has lost it's leader. Vinny is the one or at least one of the guys that got this thing heading in the right direction.
Much more leadership in the team this go-around. Take a look at the 09-10 roster. It isn't pretty in regards to leaders.
I've moved on to Prospals next team (some may have guessed he's my favorite player-long story-one of the downsides of following a player) It's been a fun two years folks and I was hoping Prospal would retire here after leading the CBJ deep into the playoffs but the sport has a business side. Take care everyone. No tobacco, wear your seat belts and enjoy the next season!
Jaxs
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Jaxs
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CBJSprague24
"Scoreboard, son."
I agree with this. Use Vinny as a roadblock for the younger guys to try and hurdle while maintaining his own leadership and skill.
I can hear Vinny saying "You want my spot? Take it out of my gloved fingers."
I know you guys probably don't want to hear from a Canucks fan, but I think resigning him is the right move. He's a super useful guy to have. Can slot in anywhere on your top3 lines in times of injury, is clutch, has lots of respect around the league. I'd LOVE for Gillis to sign him if you guys don't. When Booth plays like crap again (pretty much inevitable), you slide Vinny right in and that line improves by leaps and bounds.
I hope for your sake that you keep him and he retires there. Don't worry too much about him going to Van. Gillis isn't that smart.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
The fanbase doesn't need convincing; it's Jarmo.I know you guys probably don't want to hear from a Canucks fan, but I think resigning him is the right move. He's a super useful guy to have. Can slot in anywhere on your top3 lines in times of injury, is clutch, has lots of respect around the league. I'd LOVE for Gillis to sign him if you guys don't. When Booth plays like crap again (pretty much inevitable), you slide Vinny right in and that line improves by leaps and bounds.
I hope for your sake that you keep him and he retires there. Don't worry too much about him going to Van. Gillis isn't that smart.
Crede777
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I'm not ready to blame Jarmo and JK quite yet because we obviously don't have all of the pieces to the puzzle.
What if Prospal has demanded $4.5 million for this next season? What if he demanded more than 1 year? What if he is having a semi-major surgery? What if there was a falling out between him and management before the end of the season?
Any of those reasons would be justification for not even offering him a contract out of respect because the amount of money or term could be interpreted as insulting.
But right now all that has been hinted at is that Prospal is too old and they want to pave the way for younger guys. This, as has been shown with other examples like Peca, Malhotra, and Whitney, is a very sketchy proposition which has backfired on the Jackets in the past.
Really, what do we want out of this season? Sure we want to be contenders and sure we want to win as much as possible. But realistically what do we want? From what I have seen, what most of us want is to simply continue the performance that the team left off at. We want the Jackets to recreate the magic of the 2nd half of last season.
There were a few key factors in that turn around and I think Prospal was one. So we are essentially risking the progress that was made last season. Why? For what?
What if Prospal has demanded $4.5 million for this next season? What if he demanded more than 1 year? What if he is having a semi-major surgery? What if there was a falling out between him and management before the end of the season?
Any of those reasons would be justification for not even offering him a contract out of respect because the amount of money or term could be interpreted as insulting.
But right now all that has been hinted at is that Prospal is too old and they want to pave the way for younger guys. This, as has been shown with other examples like Peca, Malhotra, and Whitney, is a very sketchy proposition which has backfired on the Jackets in the past.
Really, what do we want out of this season? Sure we want to be contenders and sure we want to win as much as possible. But realistically what do we want? From what I have seen, what most of us want is to simply continue the performance that the team left off at. We want the Jackets to recreate the magic of the 2nd half of last season.
There were a few key factors in that turn around and I think Prospal was one. So we are essentially risking the progress that was made last season. Why? For what?
Jarmo's "vision"/ego/hubris?
Which I'm generally supportive of. It's gotten us good contracts, a top FA, a solid-looking draft and the Gaborik trade. If he snuck VP in under the cap for next season, I'd consider his tenure off to a rousing, almost flawless start.
Stringing Vinny out though is too much for me. At this point, while I'll be pretty miffed that Vinny is deemed not valuable enough to re-sign, at least show enough class to communicate with the guy and let him know where he stands. Maybe that's happened, but it doesn't sound like it, especially with Vinny no-commenting and not knowing what to say.
For me, this offseason with a VP signing for next year- A+
The same, without VP back (and with the bad blood that may come out of it): B/B-
EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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I think the keys to last season's run were:
1) Bob
2) Team defense
3) Team speed
I don't think Vinny can be specifically identified as one of the keys other than to say he was our leading points guy but with only 3 goals in the last 25 games.
He's gone and in most likelihood is not coming back. And for the record while we don't know, I'm guessing he didn't/doesn't want a 3 yr deal with a 4 mill hit. The JD/JK team decided he wasn't what they wanted or needed. Time will tell if they were right.
Crede777
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I wasn't implying he asked for both length and a large salary... One or the other.
EspenK
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I wonder if it ever got as far as him asking for anything. I'd guess he would have been content for another yr at 2.5 but who knows.
CBJSprague24
"Scoreboard, son."
Yeah, but RJ Umberger disappeared until late in the going last year. Could it be a slump (albeit an extended one)?
I find some of this conversation amusing on many levels. First off, Vinny was on pace for a 20 goal season. Exactly what we look for out of him. He was also on pace for a 50 point season, the only reason he was on pace for 51 instead of 55 (the previous season) is that he was playing a minute less per game. The final month was his most productive, even if he only had two goals. That last month he was actually producing at a top line pace. So this slump down the stretch stuff is just bogus. Vinny has been this 20-25 goal 30-40 assist guy for most of his career, which was exactly what he was giving us.
Since "the key" with Vinny also involves intangibles there is little you are going to see that would just jump out at you on the ice.
I don't know what to tell you. Is your top scorer a "key"? Guess not. I just kind of giggle. All the complaints and perceptions about him just make me laugh. Did he earn is 2.5 million? Seems to be he more than earned his 2.5 million.
This is coming down to "Is there room and/or cap space for him.". Well I would make room for him. The cap space is another story. The additions of Gaborik and Horton have made him expendable in the top six, although Horton is going to be out for quite a few games.
It's probably time to just move on and if he somehow comes back, it's a bonus. All this talk about him being a key or not isn't very productive. He was obviously a big part of this team, but we're getting hung up on semantics. For every argument I can come up with points for both sides.
Since "the key" with Vinny also involves intangibles there is little you are going to see that would just jump out at you on the ice.
I don't know what to tell you. Is your top scorer a "key"? Guess not. I just kind of giggle. All the complaints and perceptions about him just make me laugh. Did he earn is 2.5 million? Seems to be he more than earned his 2.5 million.
This is coming down to "Is there room and/or cap space for him.". Well I would make room for him. The cap space is another story. The additions of Gaborik and Horton have made him expendable in the top six, although Horton is going to be out for quite a few games.
It's probably time to just move on and if he somehow comes back, it's a bonus. All this talk about him being a key or not isn't very productive. He was obviously a big part of this team, but we're getting hung up on semantics. For every argument I can come up with points for both sides.
I just hope for everyone involved they make a decision soon. I heard they're trying to wait it out like they did last year. Its just seems like Vinny is the odd man out! I heard Porty on the radio yesterday morning and he reminded me of something I forgot about. That the gentleman's agreement was for when Vinny decided he was done playing. I don't think that Vinny thinks he's done playing.
I guess I'm so used to the Jackets being the place where relatively older washed up players came to collect a paycheck and play like shells of their former selves.
Vinny Prospal was the exception, and he proved to be the exception at a time when so many others were quitting on the team.
It makes me want to repay that loyalty with loyalty, but in the dog-eat-dog world of professional sports, that kind of loyalty is hard to find, and can in some instances be detrimental to building a winner.
It's a tough situation all around.
Fan Me wants to keep watching Vinny out on the ice with the Blue Jackets
Video Editing Me wants to keep putting Vinny's goal celebrations in videos.
Logical Me knows this is a business, there isn't quite the cap room, and that the team has probably moved on.
The rest of me doesn't like that Logical guy much though...
Vinny Prospal was the exception, and he proved to be the exception at a time when so many others were quitting on the team.
It makes me want to repay that loyalty with loyalty, but in the dog-eat-dog world of professional sports, that kind of loyalty is hard to find, and can in some instances be detrimental to building a winner.
It's a tough situation all around.
Fan Me wants to keep watching Vinny out on the ice with the Blue Jackets
Video Editing Me wants to keep putting Vinny's goal celebrations in videos.
Logical Me knows this is a business, there isn't quite the cap room, and that the team has probably moved on.
The rest of me doesn't like that Logical guy much though...
They are now screwing around with phrasing. As I said earlier in the thread, whatever the old agreement was is now pointless. New sheriffs in town and there was no contract.
This is kind of how I see it, too, though I don't know how/if I'd try to make the room needed to fit him into the top nine. I guess, at this point, I'd be most comfortable with Vinny making his move into his post-playing career. No question he could still contribute on the ice for someone, but I'm just not sure if it is in Columbus, due to the cap/roster issues. Ideally, then, I could see Jarmo going to him and asking if he wants his family to be here or in Europe. If Europe, offer him a scouting position there. If Columbus, a role as a special assistant to the GM might put him on track for a future job in upper management.
All this is dependent on Vinny being ready to leave the ice, now. Frankly, I doubt that is the course he'll follow - few players are ready to retire after a season as productive as his was, last season.
It is also dependent on teams being able to offer him a contract. With the salary cap going down there are plenty of teams unable to offer him a contract, while others sort through the additional players who have been bought out.
It's a bad offseason to be in Prospal's position.
