Pronger vs Makar

[Chips]

Fundamentally different dmen, even somewhat different time far as what defenders were allowed to do. Really hard to compare beyond preference but I guess I’d take Makar today

 

[Tralfamadore]

For today's game? Makar easily.

For the 90s/early 2000s? Pronger.

 

[Felidae]

Pronger is being romantized on hf, just like lindros.

Makar has already passed peak pronger.

Alright, let me know when Makar is a hart finalist, because Pronger is one of 8 defenseman in NHL history to win the MVP

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Pronger is being romantized on hf, just like lindros.

Makar has already passed peak pronger.

Or maybe people just saw him play?

It's comparing a known 17 season career of a player to 4 years of a career and and the rest being unknown.

I'm not saying Makar is the wrong choice but it's silly to dismiss it as romanticizing. Pronger was a beast.

 

[Oneiro]

Pronger was amazing but I take Makar here.

Mainly because the intimidation factor is less of a reality now and it’s much more likely that Makar can play that positional style into his older years and still dominate. While still having more dynamism in his younger years.

You’re never going to have that EDM style run with Makar so we’ll never know if he can drag a mediocre team far but I don’t know what more you could ask of the guy when COL won the cup.

 

[Video Nasty]

Alright, let me know when Makar is a hart finalist, because Pronger is one of 8 defenseman in NHL history to win the MVP

No doubt Pronger deserves credit for winning the Hart, but context is always important. That year had a slew of the major forwards missing time, no forward scoring 100 points due to this, and no standout goalie season that usually stands in when there’s not that signature forward year. It was something of a perfect storm for Pronger, who I stress again, built his own case and was more than worthy.

When it’s all said and done, Makar is going to dwarf every other accomplishment by Pronger. I confidently say that because after this season, Makar will have matched or exceeded everything else Pronger has done in just five seasons.

And I don’t mean this as a slight, but the way that the media has been comfortable voting Makar a finalist twice already with him missing 1/4 of a season, means that it’s fairly likely that he will gain serious Hart votes one day if his stellar play coincides with the right narrative.

 

[McVespa99]

Prongers prime was very short. I take makar.

LOL.
Pronger and its not a hard choice for me

 

[Felidae]

No doubt Pronger deserves credit for winning the Hart, but context is always important. That year had a slew of the major forwards missing time, no forward scoring 100 points due to this, and no standout goalie season that usually stands in when there’s not that signature forward year. It was something of a perfect storm for Pronger, who I stress again, built his own case and was more than worthy.

I agree. But the competition for the hart was still a prime Jagr and peak Bure. They both missed a fair amount of games but Jagr basically did what Crosby did in the lockout season, and Bure dominated the goal scoring race by quite a bit. I think it's fair to say at this moment, Pronger has peaked higher than Makar.

When it’s all said and done, Makar is going to dwarf every other accomplishment by Pronger. I confidently say that because after this season, Makar will have matched or exceeded everything else Pronger has done in just five seasons.

Eh? Disagree with the bolded. Just comparing their Norris records..

Pronger: 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 10, 15

Makar: 1, 2, 3, 9

Assuming Makar becomes a finalist this season (which is a likely but far from guaranteed outcome), that still doesn't necessarily compare to the length of Pronger's prime.

I do think Makar is on track to surpass Pronger barring injury or significant decline, he has a significantly better start to his career. But it will take more than just having a Norris worthy season this year to surpass him imo.

And I don’t mean this as a slight, but the way that the media has been comfortable voting Makar a finalist twice already with him missing 1/4 of a season, means that it’s fairly likely that he will gain serious Hart votes one day if his stellar play coincides with the right narrative.

Oh I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a hart finalist at some point. But I can also see it never happening. Hart bias against defenseman is really strong.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Makar can do stuff Pronger can't do, and vice versa.

I voted Makar, but man Prime Pronger was something else.

Tough poll.

 

[Video Nasty]

I agree. But the competition for the hart was still a prime Jagr and peak Bure. They both missed a fair amount of games but Jagr basically did what Crosby did in the lockout season, and Bure dominated the goal scoring race by quite a bit. I think it's fair to say at this moment, Pronger has peaked higher than Makar.

Eh? Disagree with the bolded. Just comparing their Norris records..

Pronger: 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 10, 15

Makar: 1, 2, 3, 9

Assuming Makar becomes a finalist this season (which is a likely but far from guaranteed outcome), that still doesn't necessarily compare to the length of Pronger's prime.

I do think Makar is on track to surpass Pronger barring injury or significant decline, he has a significantly better start to his career. But it will take more than just having a Norris worthy season this year to surpass him imo.


Oh I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a hart finalist at some point. But I can also see it never happening. Hart bias against defenseman is really strong.

Yeah, I’m making an assumption that Makar is a finalist yet again and if he can play 70+ games, likely wins his 2nd Norris.

Personally, I don’t take much stock in voting records past top 5 when we’re talking about years at or near the top of someone’s craft. Sometimes, I don’t even like bringing up anything other than being a finalist, unless context makes it necessary.

What I meant overall by my part of the post you bolded is that after just five seasons, Makar could have matched Pronger’s 4 finalist nominations, he’s already matched his 1 Norris and could have 2, has the Conn Smythe, and will have matched Pronger’s 4 All-Star nods.

But I definitely respect your side of it. There’s little to disagree with and the bit that I do just comes down to personal preference.

 

[Puckstop40]

For today's game? Makar easily.

For the 90s/early 2000s? Pronger.

I feel like this is the right answer. The bruising/physicality of Prongers time suited him better. Makar is much more dynamic though and is the prototypical defenseman in today’s speed/finesse game.

Pronger was a monster. Makar is dynamic.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Pronger was much more impactful on the ice imo. You weren’t just worried about him scoring but also getting steamrolled into a Spicey tuna roll. Fear is always in the back of your mind and rises to the surface once you see a behemoth willing to use violence at a whim

 

[TheRarestDangles]

In the modern league Makar.

 

[bobholly39]

Makar.

Pronger gets vastly overrated I find.

 

[Evergreen]

It's difficult to compare such different players, but if we are assuming we'd be plopping either guy into our lineup today, I think you have to go with Makar. Some of Pronger's success had to do with him being the perfect defenseman for the era in which he played. In today's game, he just wouldn't be able to have the same impact.

Conversely, Makar wouldn't have been as effective in Pronger's era. But I think Makar represents where the game is going so he's my choice.

 

[McFlash97]

I'm starting to really believe Chris Pronger was one of the greatest defenseman in history.

 

[centipede2233]

Pronger was much more impactful on the ice imo. You weren’t just worried about him scoring but also getting steamrolled into a Spicey tuna roll. Fear is always in the back of your mind and rises to the surface once you see a behemoth willing to use violence at a whim

+1. I feel Pronger impacted the game more to. He dragged a pretty mediocre 5th in the conference oilers team to one win of the cup. He led his team in points as a d man PLUS all the other fantastic physical qualities he brings.

 

[Caps8112]

Makar plays on a loaded Avalanche team that has been good his entire career. Pronger took an oilers and flyers team to the finals. For the Flyers he basically was the goalie.

Makar may do flashier things but Ill take Pronger. That doesnt mean Makar isnt also an absolutely amazing Dman.

 

[Bileur]

Pronger, not close.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Pronger of course, as a massive Makar fan.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The reason I picked Makar is because I do not think Prime Pronger would be the same player in today's NHL. The game is so fast, and his level of physicality is called much more often.

Really tough to compare across eras. I don't think Makar would be as special in earlier eras.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

"Pronger physics" are illegal in today's NHL, so I'm taking Makar. I really think that the current crop of offensive defensemen is the best I've seen in my lifetime

 

[Garbageyuk]

Prongers prime was very short. I take makar.

Only 1 norris trophy and didnt crack 70p once in his career.

Pronger is being romantized on hf, just like lindros.

Makar has already passed peak pronger.

It’s abundantly (and hilariously) clear you’ve never actually watched him, so why are you even here?

 

[Machinehead]

I don't get this result.

Makar, at any given time, is a top 2 defenseman in the world at absolute worst and probably will be his entire prime.

You can't say that of Pronger.

Makar already has as many Norris trophies as Pronger, actually has a Conn Smythe (which people seem to think Pronger does), has a scoring record through 4+ seasons not even matched by Bobby Orr, and he's only 24.

Adam Fox plays for my team, so I'm going to request that you never make me defend Cale Makar again.

 

[Machinehead]

"Well obviously Makar now but I take Pronger in the rough and tumble 90's and 00's."

From 1990 though the end of Pronger's career, the NHL awarded 22 Norris Trophies. 16 of those 22 were won by Leetch, Coffey, Bourque, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Keith, and Karlsson.

Offensive defenseman have succeeded and won more Norris trophies in every era.