Pronger vs Makar

[Garbageyuk]

Cale has quite the trophy case to justify the hype.

He’s very similar to Brian Leetch. Most wouldn’t take Leetch over Pronger either. Makar is a fancy skater and puts up points, but Pronger is better at literally everything else, and he was no slouch in terms of production either.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Rosy retrospection is a thing too Crypto Guy. Makar's prime is winding up and Pronger had a full hall of fame career. Should we compare Bedard to Joe Sakic and see how that vote turns out too?

I mean, he is in his prime. Don't know how much higher he is going. He's been pretty much at his level for 3 years now. It's extremely high, but the OP is asking for a prime Pronger too, and that guys prime was insane.

 

[Frosty415]

Prongers prime was very short. I take makar.

Spoken like someone that's never watched hockey pre 2010

 

[wetcoast]

"Pronger physics" are illegal in today's NHL, so I'm taking Makar. I really think that the current crop of offensive defensemen is the best I've seen in my lifetime

I agree with this and I'm in my mid 50s.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Pronger is being romantized on hf, just like lindros.

I struggle with quite how much he’s being romanticized, but he’s definitely being romanticized to some extent. Pronger was extremely good within a certain window of time, but he was also a meathead who would do insanely stupid things when his team couldn’t afford it. He was very lucky that his peak happened to coincide with a period when the league was non-serious about player safety and even just basic rules of hockey (e.g. interference) so he was able to get away with a bunch of shenanigans which would normally be outside the bounds of the game.

I do want to underscore — he was very, very good. I’m not taking away from that. But there’s a bit of a Forsberg-effect on HF where he gets a nostalgia boost from people who were maybe too young to see him with a mature critical eye, and also from some who are were older and have a bit of a Don Cherry streak in them. Either way, he was still a HOF quality player and nothing takes that away. But he seems to be held in a higher tier than he actually was at the time.

 

[Oneiro]

Tarheel nailed it.

Pronger was a very undisciplined player when younger and certainly not one of the best positional d-men in the 90s relative to Bourque, Stevens or even a young Lidstrom. His growth wasn't as obvious as someone like Niedermayer who had to improve a lot defensively, but he did have a lot of growing to do. Makar has been a lights out star since the first shift. And in general, physicality / intimidation is so overstated by younger and older fans alike. I'm an NJ fan; Stevens could have stopped hitting completely and still would end up being one of the best d-men of his era.

And the idea that Makar is not going to be able to play like Pronger did or Hedman sort of does now - that relaxed, first-pass oriented, efficient control - is silly. He'll be able to do that and I see him do it quite often when the Avs are rolling.

 

[Felidae]

I’d take Makar.

I don’t think prime Pronger would be nearly as effective when a lot of the chippy stuff is being called. He came up in the perfect time for his style of play tbh, and he still cost his teams at times by getting in penalty/ suspension problems.

I chose Pronger but I think this is a good point.

Makar's skillet is more versatile across era's. A lot of the things Pronger did physically wouldn't fly in today's game, and he'd lose some of that intimidation effect that made him such a menacing presence on ice.

Of course, I guess you can make the argument Makar would have a harder time surviving in past eras considering what players could get away with. But his skillset would stand out regardless.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

His Hart season was against "down" year Jagr and cheating Bure.

Semi off topic, but a lot of people said that 2000 was a weak season because Jagr missed 19 games. That's true, but it was much more pervasive than that.

Sakic missed 22 games. Forsberg missed 33. Lemieux was retired (he came back the next year). Lindros was no longer superhuman, and he missed 28 games. Fedorov missed 14. (EDIT - Hasek only played in 35 games).

There were still some big names near the top of the scoring race (Bure, Karyia, Selanne) - but you know it's a down year when Owen Nolan and Tony Amonte were two of the top seven scorers.

(None of this detracts from Pronger. He had a great season, and he probably deserved the Hart. But there were multiple defensemen from 1980 onwards who had seasons that were at least as good as his - but they didn't win the Hart due to tougher competition).

 

[Xspyrit]

Maybe it's just me but I think a lot of the younger posters need to be explained what the dead puck era is.

 

[DickSmehlik]

Pronger certainly benefited from the DPE without a doubt however it doesn't explain how coming out of the lockout, from '05-'07, when there was a massive crackdown on interference and holding that he was the best denfenseman in the league and led 2 separate teams to the Cup Finals.

 

[Xspyrit]

Pronger certainly benefited from the DPE without a doubt however it doesn't explain how coming out of the lockout, from '05-'07, when there was a massive crackdown on interference and holding that he was the best denfenseman in the league and led 2 separate teams to the Cup Finals.

What do you mean "benefited"?

Well, maybe we're talking about different things.. I was talking about offensive numbers, of course.

 

[authentic]

Pronger certainly benefited from the DPE without a doubt however it doesn't explain how coming out of the lockout, from '05-'07, when there was a massive crackdown on interference and holding that he was the best denfenseman in the league and led 2 separate teams to the Cup Finals.

To be fair though the NHL during this time has a lot more rough stuff than today including brutal hits and cross checks. At the end of the day though there was a noticeable difference in the speed of the game after the lockout and his game didn’t faulter one bit being a bigger and somewhat slower player, infact this was his absolute peak as a player.