Sportsnet: Problems in the Leafs' dressing room

[BackHandShelf22]

You can argue about the hit itself but look at his reaction. His reaction speaks volumes about his attitude. Just didn't care.

He certainly made no attempt to avoid jvr. I would describe it as accidental on purpose.

I refuse to believe somebody can actually believe this. He's a captain who cares for his teammates. I'm not even a big leaf fan and I find that comment very odd.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Because clarkson is a black hole on offence who hasn't lived up to a fraction of his contract. Just another lazy entitled player on a team full of them.

This makes no sense. What does Clarkson have to do with 36 shots a night leafs? He was never on this crappy team last year or when Wilson was coach.

If Clarkson scored 20 goals this season would that really make a difference?

 

[RoadWarrior]

I refuse to believe somebody can actually believe this. He's a captain who cares for his teammates. I'm not even a big leaf fan and I find that comment very odd.

If he cared for his teammate then why did he skate circles around the ice leaving jvr in a heap? Like I said actions speak louder than words. Phaneuf is full of cliches. One of the best in the league.

The guy has no credibility and quite frankly was god awful in the last 20 games. I find it hard to believe that a player who cares so little about his own play would care about his teammates.

Mats Sundin was a quiet leader but he led by example scoring clutch goals and consistently elevating his game at key moments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership

Dion isn't a good follower let alone a leader.

 

[RoadWarrior]

This makes no sense. What does Clarkson have to do with 36 shots a night leafs? He was never on this crappy team last year or when Wilson was coach.

If Clarkson scored 20 goals this season would that really make a difference?

Clarkson is symptomatic of what's wrong with this team. He's not the cause but will never be part of the solution.

They need fewer players like clarkson and more like Rielly and Gardiner.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Clarkson is symptomatic of what's wrong with this team. He's not the cause but will never be part of the solution.

They need fewer players like clarkson and more like Rielly and Gardiner.

wild

 

[BackHandShelf22]

If he cared for his teammate then why did he skate circles around the ice leaving jvr in a heap? Like I said actions speak louder than words. Phaneuf is full of cliches. One of the best in the league.

The guy has no credibility and quite frankly was god awful in the last 20 games. I find it hard to believe that a player who cares so little about his own play would care about his teammates. .

Wow I feel sorry for you guys. This streak has really turned some of you sour. I think alot of your criticism is misguided imo.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Wow I feel sorry for you guys. This streak has really turned some of you sour. I think alot of your criticism is misguided imo.

I wish I hadn't watched the final 20 games but its the part of the season that is the most revealing about a hockey team.

Phaneuf was possibly the worst defenseman in the league over that stretch and refused to accept any responsibility.

In a poll of other players around the league phaneuf was voted the most overrated player. Now we understand why.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Phaneuf was possibly the worst defenseman in the league over that stretch and refused to accept any responsibility.

Well now you're just blowing it way out of proportion. Franson was clearly even worse.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Well now you're just blowing it way out of proportion. Franson was clearly even worse.

Well thank god they didn't resign Franson. There's no way he's coming back.

The worst part is that Franson is a good athlete and has some puck skills but his defensive awareness and skating are laughable.

 

[RoadWarrior]

By now you should realize that you make too much sense to be trying to debate with people on this message board..

Dion is that you? I guess you can type faster than you can skate.

Seriously if you can convince somebody to take him off our hands I'll drive him to the airport.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Some of you guys are nuts if you think we were playing well before the olympic break. Did we somehow watch a different season? We were lucky, plain and simple on the backs of great goaltending. We were outshot almost every game and sometimes those shots were up into the 40's and 50's.

It was insane to think we could hold that. Add in an incredible OT and shootout record and that is why we were so high in the standings.

As I, and a few others here have said, there was no way they could sustain that pace.

It all comes crashing down and you all think it is because of the 8 game losing streak? Gimme a break, we were filled with holes all season. We were a sucky team when the season started and we finished worse.

We kept the "regular season" pace when everyone else was ramping it up for the playoff push. We were still stuck in first gear.

Then Nonuts thinks this team was good and stands pat at the deadline, and also allowing other teams to steal players like Vanek to Montreal.

If Nonis thought this was a playoff caliber team at the trade deadline, then he needs to go and go fast.

Carlyle going is a given. Just a matter of a few days, perhaps tomorrow.

You don't have to be a genius to see where this season was headed and that is down the crapper and it was just a matter of time.

 

[share]

Carlyle going is a given. Just a matter of a few days, perhaps tomorrow.

.

I have to ask you , Who do you think, on the face of this earth is capable to coach the current team to be a winner ?

 

[Leafspoison*]

I have to ask you , Who do you think, on the face of this earth is capable to coach the current team to be a winner ?

Is that rhetorical?

I will assume it will be a completely different roster to a degree so possibly Hitch, Deboer to name a few.

I should add.....no one. This is no where close to being a winning roster. It is bottom 10 easily next year too and we won't have the luck we had at the beginning of this year.

 

[TheVision]

I have to ask you , Who do you think, on the face of this earth is capable to coach the current team to be a winner ?

Scotty Bowman in his hey day wouldn't be enough to get this group of heartless floaters to win!

Carlyle will likely be fired, unfairly as far as I'm concerned. But, you can't get rid of all the problems on this team. This team will not succeed under ANY coach, until an overhaul occurs.

Anyone not named Bernier, Rielly, or Van Riemsdyk should be made available and moved if possible.

This is the most pathetic season since 04!

 

[RoadWarrior]

Some of you guys are nuts if you think we were playing well before the olympic break. Did we somehow watch a different season? We were lucky, plain and simple on the backs of great goaltending. We were outshot almost every game and sometimes those shots were up into the 40's and 50's.

It was insane to think we could hold that. Add in an incredible OT and shootout record and that is why we were so high in the standings.

As I, and a few others here have said, there was no way they could sustain that pace.

It all comes crashing down and you all think it is because of the 8 game losing streak? Gimme a break, we were filled with holes all season. We were a sucky team when the season started and we finished worse.

We kept the "regular season" pace when everyone else was ramping it up for the playoff push. We were still stuck in first gear.

Then Nonuts thinks this team was good and stands pat at the deadline, and also allowing other teams to steal players like Vanek to Montreal.

If Nonis thought this was a playoff caliber team at the trade deadline, then he needs to go and go fast.

Carlyle going is a given. Just a matter of a few days, perhaps tomorrow.

You don't have to be a genius to see where this season was headed and that is down the crapper and it was just a matter of time.

The team had serious flaws all season. Lack of depth due to the discarding of grabovski, komarov and MacArthur and major problems in their defensive zone coverage.

Carlyle continually demanded that the wingers play down low to help the slow d men but it simply exposed the points. Once teams figured this out they just started cycling the puck back for easy point shots. That's one of the reasons for the high shot totals along with generally poor passing and very little shot blocking.

I think that Carlyle was really in charge of the personnel changes and nonis was barely involved. The fact that both of them misunderstood this team so badly after the playoff run last season tells you just how outdated Carlyle is as a coach. He doesn't understand modern hockey and is a lousy scout.

 

[diceman934]

This whole discussion is not news the same player who whined to Burke constantly was whining to Nonis. You simply need to cut off the snakes head and ship him out of town no matter the cost!

I posted this 3 years ago so it is old news.

 

[CellarDweller0]

Agreed. Clearly there are players who aren't tough enough. Whoever they are, ship them out. Remove them and keep them far away from the youth on the team. Get what you can for them and carry on.

 

[The Legend]

Scotty Bowman in his hey day wouldn't be enough to get this group of heartless floaters to win!

Carlyle will likely be fired, unfairly as far as I'm concerned. But, you can't get rid of all the problems on this team. This team will not succeed under ANY coach, until an overhaul occurs.

Anyone not named Bernier, Rielly, or Van Riemsdyk should be made available and moved if possible.

This is the most pathetic season since 04!

So....you'd move Kessel?

By the way - if you think Carlyle didn't have involvement in how the team is constructed, you're just flat wrong.

 

[The Legend]

this isn't a decent team that all of a sudden turned into a grbage team, this is a decent team that QUIT. For some reason, they stopped. Someone in the dressing room said or did something... the coach said or did something, or one or a few of the players said or did something which caused this group to end their season weeks ago.

Watch them on the ice. They're going through the motions, plain and simple. No one's playing - no one. The coach gave up many weeks ago - just watch him with his hands in his pockets.

Something went down with the team, and whatever it was will probably stay in the dressing room. But again this was a reasonable team that was headed for the playoffs that ran into some sort of rift a little while back - and they just been refusing to play.

Again, it's not a crap team all of a sudden - they're not playing to win, and haven't been for over a month now. Who knows what happened, but whatever it was, caused this collective group to say F* this team and this city, we're out

You're right - they weren't a crap team all of the sudden. They were a crap team all year.

 

[TheVision]

So....you'd move Kessel?

By the way - if you think Carlyle didn't have involvement in how the team is constructed, you're just flat wrong.

I'd move Kessel for the right deal, sure.

And I didn't say anything about Carlyle not having any involvement in building the team. It's just easier to blame the coach and fire him rather than holding a bunch of millionaires who know they play in Toronto and don't seem to really care all that much about playing a good strong team game. Sorry, Anybody pinning this season just on the coach is just flat out wrong.

 

[TheVision]

You're right - they weren't a crap team all of the sudden. They were a crap team all year.

This!

You can't allow that many shots all season and throw your goalies under the bus night in and night out and expect to keep winning.

If it weren't for Bernier and Reimer's play in October, we'd have a legit chance at a top 3 pick!

Folks will just have to wake up soon and realize that the team is simply not that good, extremely one dimensional, and VERY little character.

Changing the coach will be the first step, but the culture MUST change soon.

And to the guy saying something happened in the room, and the players just stopped playing: If that's the case, then they're all in breach of contract and need to grow up a whole lot more than anyone first thought! And hiring a guy like Shanahan isn't going to make it any easier for those players that like to take it easy, cash in their paychecks, and play for the most watched team in the league and never have to worry about actually succeeding. Of course, that's our fault, the fans. Whoever threw that jersey on the ice tonight is my hero of the day; more Leafs fans should express just how pissed off we really are....to the players themselves!

 

[Northernguy10]

Some of you guys are nuts if you think we were playing well before the olympic break. Did we somehow watch a different season? We were lucky, plain and simple on the backs of great goaltending. We were outshot almost every game and sometimes those shots were up into the 40's and 50's.

It was insane to think we could hold that. Add in an incredible OT and shootout record and that is why we were so high in the standings.

As I, and a few others here have said, there was no way they could sustain that pace.

It all comes crashing down and you all think it is because of the 8 game losing streak? Gimme a break, we were filled with holes all season. We were a sucky team when the season started and we finished worse.

We kept the "regular season" pace when everyone else was ramping it up for the playoff push. We were still stuck in first gear.

Then Nonuts thinks this team was good and stands pat at the deadline, and also allowing other teams to steal players like Vanek to Montreal.

If Nonis thought this was a playoff caliber team at the trade deadline, then he needs to go and go fast.

Carlyle going is a given. Just a matter of a few days, perhaps tomorrow.

You don't have to be a genius to see where this season was headed and that is down the crapper and it was just a matter of time.

... You've pretty much nailed it...

 

[Northernguy10]

You don't become one of the worst defensive teams in the league in 8 games.

They earned their position.

C'mon, I want this moron out of here as much as the next guy, but he didn't hit JVR on purpose. He's just really that bad and he missed Marleau.

... You'll never convince some people in here that it wasn't on purpose.

 

[TheVision]

Some of you guys are nuts if you think we were playing well before the olympic break. Did we somehow watch a different season? We were lucky, plain and simple on the backs of great goaltending. We were outshot almost every game and sometimes those shots were up into the 40's and 50's.

It was insane to think we could hold that. Add in an incredible OT and shootout record and that is why we were so high in the standings.

As I, and a few others here have said, there was no way they could sustain that pace.

It all comes crashing down and you all think it is because of the 8 game losing streak? Gimme a break, we were filled with holes all season. We were a sucky team when the season started and we finished worse.

We kept the "regular season" pace when everyone else was ramping it up for the playoff push. We were still stuck in first gear.

Then Nonuts thinks this team was good and stands pat at the deadline, and also allowing other teams to steal players like Vanek to Montreal.

If Nonis thought this was a playoff caliber team at the trade deadline, then he needs to go and go fast.

Carlyle going is a given. Just a matter of a few days, perhaps tomorrow.

You don't have to be a genius to see where this season was headed and that is down the crapper and it was just a matter of time.

Some may hate to admit it, but Nonis is not a bad GM. If he believed this team was for real, he would have moved prospects and picks and overpaid at the deadline! He didn't and many on here were incensed. Possibly he knows his team isn't all that good yet?

 

[pdmuck]

Last in the league in shots against at an AVERAGE of 35.9.

Outshot in 65 of 82 games.

And this isn't new news....the shots against were an alarming stat back in November and December and there was no mid-course correction. That is coaching. A smart coach would've realized they were lucky as s**t to have as good a record as they did by the end of December and do something about the defensive strategy they that resulted in them giving up more shots than any team in the league.

It ain't rocket science.