Proposal: Price of Patrick Laine?

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He’s also built a reputation of being a slow, lousy skater, not battling for pucks in the corners all while being a dark hole defensively.

He’s 100% showing signs of the Thomas Vanek syndrom so far

Ok? He's also a 40 goal scorer in a league that isn't exactly flooded with them. Laine isn't ever going to be in "best player in the league" discussions because he's a one-trick pony, but my god, what a ****ing trick. He'd be the best goal scorer the Wings have had since Hossain 09 if they landed him.

Anyone who isn't interested in acquiring Laine the player is a moron. If you don't want to pay the price in assets to get him that's another thing... but to say "I'm not interested in acquiring Patrik Laine at any price", I feel pretty comfortable denouncing your knowledge of hockey.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

He’s also built a reputation of being a slow, lousy skater, not battling for pucks in the corners all while being a dark hole defensively.

He’s 100% showing signs of the Thomas Vanek syndrom so far

Are we sure this reputation is valid?

I'm inclined to take the production and see what kind of improvements the kid can make.

 

[Baksfamous112]

And? I'd say it would take a superstar C or 4 assets to get Larkin out of Detroit too. I'd have said it would take a hell of a lot more than Neal Pionk and #20 to get Trouba out of Winnipeg. Fans are idiots with values.
What they're really saying is you have to ridiculously overpay to get Laine. It would be like if someone offered you the market price for your family home. Outside of happening to need money right then, you're not going to be motivated to sell based on what you could get from the market. But if someone came offering 2-3x what it is worth, even if you weren't looking to move, you're probably selling that house (unless it's a moustache twirling villain offering it or your father built the house with his bare hands)

But it might be a whole other stories if my budget is really, really tight at the moment while both of my neighbour are being assholes and annoys me all the time.

Larkin has no reason whatsoever to want to leave Detroit and Detroit has no reasons to trade Larkin either. While Laine’s situation is highly speculative, there are multiple hints that he’s unhappy with his ice time (coaching staff), that he doesn’t have the best relationship with the leadership group, that he’s not fond of Winnipeg and that management think his ask is way too high right now. Again, all that is speculative but usually when there’s smoke, there’s fire. It might not be all true but I bet some of it is in fact true

 

[Baksfamous112]

Ok? He's also a 40 goal scorer in a league that isn't exactly flooded with them. Laine isn't ever going to be in "best player in the league" discussions because he's a one-trick pony, but my god, what a ****ing trick. He'd be the best goal scorer the Wings have had since Hossain 09 if they landed him.

Anyone who isn't interested in acquiring Laine the player is a moron. If you don't want to pay the price in assets to get him that's another thing... but to say "I'm not interested in acquiring Patrik Laine at any price", I feel pretty comfortable denouncing your knowledge of hockey.

The problem is he’s looking to be paid as one of the best player in the league and he truly believe he is better than everyone else. That’s where things gets complicated.

Another problem is not many teams have the assets AND cap space to acquire Laine all while the ask is ridiculously high

Are we sure this reputation is valid?

I'm inclined to take the production and see what kind of improvements the kid can make.

I don’t know. Maybe you should watch a few tapes of Laine’s game this season. He’s been horrible in all facets of the game. The guy CAN be dominant but he just doesn’t want to go in the dirty areas (and when he does he’s losing puck battles because he’s nonchalant). The only reason he didn’t have 25 points season this year is because of his elite shot and PP1 time.

This guy had one of the worst possession # in the league and one of the worst gf%/ga% differential in the entire league. He literally dragged down everyone he played with.

Of course teams would be willing to take a chance and see if the kid can improve his overall game but I don’t think any team is willing to pay a (double/triple) premium price to find out. I think at BEST teams are willing to pay market price and take the chance on the guy

 

[ShippinItDaily]

The problem is he’s looking to be paid as one of the best player in the league and he truly believe he is better than everyone else. That’s where things gets complicated.

Another problem is not many teams have the assets AND cap space to acquire Laine all while the ask is ridiculously high



I don’t know. Maybe you should watch a few tapes of Laine’s game this season. He’s been horrible in all facets of the game. The guy CAN be dominant but he just doesn’t want to go in the dirty areas (and when he does he’s losing puck battles because he’s nonchalant). The only reason he didn’t have 25 points season this year is because of his elite shot and PP1 time.

This guy had one of the worst possession # in the league and one of the worst gf%/ga% differential in the entire league. He literally dragged down everyone he played with.

Of course teams would be willing to take a chance and see if the kid can improve his overall game but I don’t think any team is willing to pay a (double/triple) premium price to find out. I think at BEST teams are willing to pay market price and take the chance on the guy

Objectively, he was a bad posession player last year. A lot of that is likely because of his defense. What I'm saying is don't go overboard on the narrative. This talk of being "nonchalant" and "doesn't want to go in the dirty areas" is often a lazy narrative that people assign to younger players who are extremely skilled offensively.

Why do you want to dismiss his power play production from his ability as a player? You take anyone off of a good first PP unit and they lose 20+ points. Laine adds a ton of value to this position. It's not like Winnipeg was successful on their PP in recent years in spite of him.

 

[runforcover]

So ya’ll keep comparing him to Ovy and “being the best goal scorer of his generation” all while defending his play like your life depended on it and then turn around and say he’ll make 5.5-7.5m a year.

Something is not right here

The problem is that Ovi-Laine comparison doesn’t make sense, because only thing that is comparable is their shot. Everything else? Ovi at 33 is still better elite player. Ovi at Laine’s age was one of the best players in the world. So that comparison will always make Laine look not good.

 

[Ezekial]

Jeff Skinner is like 6 years Laine's elder, has never had a season as good as Laine's best, and just signed for $9M/year. It's obvious that scoring goals gets you paid. He will exceed that 6.5-7.5 range.

Skinner was a ufa. He could sign with any team that wanted him.

 

[jkutswings]

Anyone who isn't interested in acquiring Laine the player is a moron. If you don't want to pay the price in assets to get him that's another thing... but to say "I'm not interested in acquiring Patrik Laine at any price", I feel pretty comfortable denouncing your knowledge of hockey.

But this isn't in a vacuum to say, hey, I'll take Laine for the $1 Kris Draper Special.

The kid is a phenomenally gifted goal scorer. But that gift will command serious cap space, and when he's got no other assets to help the team, even ignoring what the trade would cost, I'd rather use that cap space to build an overall better roster long term.

If I was an owner primarily interested in ticket sales on a Tuesday night, sure. Bring in the boy wonder, and as long as he keeps filling the net, I'll pay his Fortnite expenses myself.

But if my top priority is patiently building a championship contender, then there are other ways I'd prefer to spend assets with the demands of playoff hockey in mind.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Skinner was a ufa. He could sign with any team that wanted him.

Trust me, I’m aware. But safe to say he’s bringing that contract up at the negotiation table. As he should. I know he might not get the same deal, but I’d definitely throw that on the table. “Hey you see this guy who just got $9 million per year? I’m better than him, pay me.”

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

But this isn't in a vacuum to say, hey, I'll take Laine for the $1 Kris Draper Special.

The kid is a phenomenally gifted goal scorer. But that gift will command serious cap space, and when he's got no other assets to help the team, even ignoring what the trade would cost, I'd rather use that cap space to build an overall better roster long term.

If I was an owner primarily interested in ticket sales on a Tuesday night, sure. Bring in the boy wonder, and as long as he keeps filling the net, I'll pay his Fortnite expenses myself.

But if my top priority is patiently building a championship contender, then there are other ways I'd prefer to spend assets with the demands of playoff hockey in mind.

Right... but there are several posters in this very topic that are basically saying "guy is a cancer and won't go into the tough areas." Which leads me to believe that they don't want him at any price.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Trust me, I’m aware. But safe to say he’s bringing that contract up at the negotiation table. As he should. I know he might not get the same deal, but I’d definitely throw that on the table. “Hey you see this guy who just got $9 million per year? I’m better than him, pay me.”

And they'll respond, where are you gonna go? Yaroslavl?

 

[Ezekial]

And they'll respond, where are you gonna go? Yaroslavl?

Exactly. The GM will say their negotiation wasn't even close to similar and the agent will have to pick a real scenario.

 

[odin1981]

So ya’ll keep comparing him to Ovy and “being the best goal scorer of his generation” all while defending his play like your life depended on it and then turn around and say he’ll make 5.5-7.5m a year.

Something is not right here

I didn't compare his play to Ovie that was another poster. Perhaps you should quote that or those posters instead of putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

 

[Gniwder]

Another problem is not many teams have the assets AND cap space to acquire Laine all while the ask is ridiculously high

If a team has the assets AND cap space, why would they bother trading for Laine? That means the team has talent and money, they'd be better off buying an UFA next offseason.

This team doesn't really have the extra assets to trade for a guy like Laine. All of the trade proposal appear to create multiple holes while filing a bigger one. In the end, it won't make the team any better. I'll pass.

It'll be interesting to see where he winds up though.

 

[DRW204]

Laine was garbage this year, first two seasons he was incredibly strong. the guy has pretty much single-handedly transformed the Jets PP from bottom-half in the league to top 5 since his insertion on PP1. It's a bit of a joke that Maurice had him off the PP1 for large parts of his rookie year, it probably costed the Jet a PO spot. If his last season was his floor and his value is 30G PP specialist at age 21 (which is disingenuous imo) he's already a 7M+ player (look at the going rate for these type of players)

Laine is not good defensively, however, he can out-score whatever deficiencies he has. The guy was 2nd on the team 5v5 +/- at +25 (Scheifele lead the team at +26) in his first two years and even with his garbage season last year he is still +11 in his 3 year career at 5v5 (for reference; Wheeler is from '16-'19 +12).

The problem is Maurice has a hard-on for Scheifele-Wheeler on the top line and Little-Laine have 0 chemistry. Laine is a +23 (at 5v5) away from Little, and a -12 with him. Laine has had strong play with various other Cs (some in limited mins), the problem is the line of Ehlers-Little-Laine lack chemistry.

no one has an idea what the contract ask is. he's been open to a bridge from the sounds of it given the down year last year, but he wants to put in a situation where he can produce (aka not with Little). Frankly, the team as a whole needs him away from Little because it hinders the top 6 extraordinarily. Laine can't really drive a line at this point in his career, he's one of the best finishers in the league though. Scoring 44 as a 19 year old in 16.5 mins/night and 36 as a 18 year old rookie aren't small feats.

 

[Retire91]

I don't know that there is truth to the negatives that are being thrown around but that is not going to do much to his trade value he is still going to be traded as a guaranteed 30 goal scorer with 40+ goal potential. The only way his trade value would come down is if he publically demanded a trade and then limited the teams they could work with like Heatley, but Heatley wasn't RFA and had the contract that allowed him to do that.

Would I be interested in getting him sure, do I want to pay the cost to bring him here, no.

 

[MBH]

Winnipeg fans made it real clear that it would take either a young superstar C or 4 premium assets ++ to get Laine out of Winnipeg

Yeah, I wonder what Winnipeg fans made clear about the return for Trouba. I wonder if the Rangers didn't get the message.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah, I wonder what Winnipeg fans made clear about the return for Trouba. I wonder if the Rangers didn't get the message.

**** man, if what fans value their guys at is what matters.. I won't give up Justin Abdelkader for anything less than Connor McDavid. I think I'm making this pretty clear. I wonder if Edmonton is listening.

 

[Reddwit]

Jesus, the goal scoring fetishism has gotten out of control. What year is it?

For years now I've watched in amazement as people credit these types for being a "pure goal scorer." In almost any other situation, being a "pure [insert descriptor here]" is an indictment - a sign that a player is deficient in other key categories. Yet here we are, fawning over a guy because he scored 44 goals at the age of 20 despite a host of other deficiencies. And this with the knowledge that these guys are often put in the best position to succeed at that task (even guys like Frk and Pulkkinen have been gifted PP time and prioritized for their shot despite the poor return) and yet the majority of them still don't outscore those who are not pure goal scorers.

People treat Laine like he has the scoring prowess of a young Ovechkin or Stamkos. Yet he doesn't. While they contributed more in other ways.

People treat young guys like Pasta and DeBrincat as lesser while their scoring rate is right up there with Laine. Yet they contribute more in other ways.

And the crazy thing about Laine specifically is that he's a heavy-footed guy with mediocre edgework - he doesn't even have the raw tools that have allowed smaller, shiftier guys to massively close the goal-scoring gap without sacrificing other areas of their game.

Its bananas. Rick Nash 2.0.

 

[obey86]

2020 1st round & 2021 1st round pick + Zadina

You trying to tank the rebuild?

 

[obey86]

Ok? He's also a 40 goal scorer in a league that isn't exactly flooded with them. Laine isn't ever going to be in "best player in the league" discussions because he's a one-trick pony, but my god, what a ****ing trick. He'd be the best goal scorer the Wings have had since Hossain 09 if they landed him.

Anyone who isn't interested in acquiring Laine the player is a moron. If you don't want to pay the price in assets to get him that's another thing... but to say "I'm not interested in acquiring Patrik Laine at any price", I feel pretty comfortable denouncing your knowledge of hockey.

Sure, if he comes super cheap i'm interested. But i'm not willing to give up good/great assets for the opportunity to pay a one dimensional player, who doesn't seem to be improving, a ridiculously expensive contract.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Sure, if he comes super cheap i'm interested. But i'm not willing to give up good/great assets for the opportunity to pay a one dimensional player, who doesn't seem to be improving, a ridiculously expensive contract.

Improvement is rarely perfectly linear. There are going to be bumps in the road. Having a really down year at 20 years old while still scoring 30 goals means you are in one hell of a place as a player.

If people don't think he is worth the rumored price than that is totally understandable.

My take is that people are going to feel really silly in a few years thinking this is a "one dimensional" hockey player who had his one trick figured out. People were sure that Ovechkin had one trick on the PP and that he should be easy to stop, yet guess what, he keeps scoring from that one spot at an elite rate year after year. Same with Brett Hull and Steven Stamkos. Laine will approach that level as a sniper.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Oilers could offer Kris Russel + Tyler Benson + a first. Gives Winnipeg some cap relief with what Laine is gonna get paid. Tyler Benson is a great prospect. A first which could be high. Kris Russel could help on the back end.

 

[obey86]

Improvement is rarely perfectly linear. There are going to be bumps in the road. Having a really down year at 20 years old while still scoring 30 goals means you are in one hell of a place as a player.

If people don't think he is worth the rumored price than that is totally understandable.

My take is that people are going to feel really silly in a few years thinking this is a "one dimensional" hockey player who had his one trick figured out. People were sure that Ovechkin had one trick on the PP and that he should be easy to stop, yet guess what, he keeps scoring from that one spot at an elite rate year after year. Same with Brett Hull and Steven Stamkos. Laine will approach that level as a sniper.

Even if Ovechkin was a one trick pony as a youngster -- a young trick pony averaging 54 goals/103 points is in a completely different league than a one trick pony averaging 36 goals/61 points. Like, not even comparable. One trick pony 50 goal/100 point guy is worth a shit load of money, regardless of his shortcomings. I'm not sure one trick pony 35 goal/60 point guy is with that huge/ridiculous contract. It's an asinine comparison.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Oilers could offer Kris Russel + Tyler Benson + a first. Gives Winnipeg some cap relief with what Laine is gonna get paid. Tyler Benson is a great prospect. A first which could be high. Kris Russel could help on the back end.

You think the Oilers will trade a local kid in Benson coming off almost a ppg in the A? Especially for a "virus" like Laine