Post-Game Talk: Preseason Game 2 = win

FonRiesen

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Sep 28, 2017
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Of course I'm sure. I watch a lot of hockey. Bowness is known for rolling three lines here and then or for leaning heavily on the same group late in games and you looking at 5 games doesn't mean anything. Feel free to ask the Dallas board. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here but still. I found it funny that of all people Bowness was talking about shift lenghts.
Rolling 3 lines (and total minutes) is a separate issue from shift length. 20+ minutes for top lines should happen in a game because they get MORE shifts, not longer ones.

Shorter shifts =higher intensity, as long as they can recover before their next shift. Both issues are important (I'd still prefer more balanced deployment than what we've seen in the past from Mau) but the biggest thing I'd like to see is intensity on every shift rather than coasting. That should be a top priority.
 

DRW204

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Pretty sure he, back in Dallas, gave Joe Pavelski, among others, several ~5 mins shifts towards the end of games until he was barely moving anymore if the score was tight. All of a sudden in Winnipeg it's a problem? Seems more like a PR stunt to tell the media who the new boss is. I understand it's just preseason and that's not the same as regular season. Still, the point remains.
i don't doubt he leaned on the pavelski/hintz/robertson line a lot when down in games. that was one of the top offensive lines in the league, & evidently one of the best on dallas. when down in games, do you think they're more likely to score even with extended shifts vs faksa, rafl, glendening, radulov, etc. 5 min shifts, cmon how many times did he do this with them? i would not be surprised if they were double shifted given the lack of scoring in the bottom-6.

i think he could have addressed this privately for sure. so perhaps a bit of a PR stunt, or publicly setting the tone on the expectation/standard. it's a pre-season game, however, it seems like the goal/expectation/standard was not met by the vets. the vets fwds on this team did often did what they want under the previous coaching regime. so i think bowness doing this early (even just merely a pre-season game) earned a bit of good-will from jets fans.
 

surixon

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i don't doubt he leaned on the pavelski/hintz/robertson line a lot when down in games. that was one of the top offensive lines in the league, & evidently one of the best on dallas. when down in games, do you think they're more likely to score even with extended shifts vs faksa, rafl, glendening, radulov, etc. 5 min shifts, cmon how many times did he do this with them? i would not be surprised if they were double shifted given the lack of scoring in the bottom-6.

i think he could have addressed this privately for sure. so perhaps a bit of a PR stunt, or publicly setting the tone on the expectation/standard. it's a pre-season game, however, it seems like the goal/expectation/standard was not met by the vets. the vets fwds on this team did often did what they want under the previous coaching regime. so i think bowness doing this early (even just merely a pre-season game) earned a bit of good-will from jets fans.

He said they had been talking about it a lot leading up to the game so no issue with him talking about it when it wasn't met. He laid out what was expected and it wasn't met.
 

DannyGallivan

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Well once again it's preseason so need to keep these results in perspective. Vets will do what they feel they need to to get ready as much as the fans may not always like it.

I once again liked our aggressiveness and shape in the nz and Oz. Our forecheck was real good we looked to have an actual breakout strategy.

After seeing a game of our top 6 I still am not liking the configuration much. Granted it's preseason but many of the things I thought would be issues were. The top line has three players who all want to have the puck on their stick. I felt this pretty much rendered Mark as the support player tonight as Fly and KFC had the puck most of the time. Perhaps they work this out better moving forward but I feel we can't afford to have any of those three playing a largely supporting role on a line.

The second line was interesting to watch. Perfetti essentially made that line his and started Imposing his will on the game but he didn't have a forward who knew where to get open infront of the net. He was essentially playing the role Blake has traditionally played on the line and I think Blake is going to have learn to adapt his game to adapt to Cole. He was still making largely playmaking routes tonight. Dubois will help but I think we need to rejig the lines a bit to get better balance and overlap of skills.

Players:

Of the vets, Morrissey and Conner looked fairly sharp and engaged. The rest had various levels of rust/engagement, they just need to be ready for puck drop.

Cole was once again excellent. His play off the puck was very good again and forces turnovers and low percentage plays with his positioning and timing. He flashed a tonne of skill in traffic tonight and what I liked is he wasn't looking to defer to the vet in Wheeler. He was imposing his will on the game. He's going to be an excellent player sooner then later.

Heinola: Had a rough first half of the game but then settled and started making better reads all over the ice. He was activating at the appropriate times, he was moving the puck with poise and assertiveness. Also was happy with his gap and his physical play. He is one player who really reads well off of Cole. I think he's given himself the early lead for that last spot.

Lundmark I felt acquitted himself quite well tonight. He played his usual steady game and moved the puck smartly. There is some elements of DeMelo in his play.

Samberg was very meh, he was not moving the puck all that well and was just so so in his end. He is going to need to be much better moving forward to win that spot.

The Moose line was all hungry and played their hearts out. Torgoson with perhaps the best game of his life. He was doing everything he needs to do be successful. He was hard on pucks, using his size to both separate pucks and to shield pucks. He then got open and used his good shot. He's earned himself another game but he should go down and get lots of minutes and reps in order to get consistent playing this type of game. He's got skills we need though.

Essymont making a strong case for the fourth line.
Good post.

On the first line, I agree that Scheif, Ehlers and Connor could probably be more effective with one of them on another line. I'm thinking that Connor plays well with Perfetti and Dubois. However, I also understand that the Schief/Wheeler trio should finally be split up. How about Perfetti playing with Scheif and Ehlers? Perfetti is very much like a young Schiefele, but he is more of a playmaker/quarterback. This would allow Schiefele to use his great snap shot more often.

Still not sold on Heinola. I actually like Chisholm's game more at this point, but again... preseason doesn't mean a whole lot.

I agree with your take on Samberg. I think the best we'll get from him is a solid stay at home d-man. I would be okay with that if he develops a much needed mean streak.

Torgs played well. It's nice to see a big guy with good hands around the net. Of all the forward prospects and Moose guys, he intrigues me the most. How about him with Appleton and Lowry. Now, that's a very big trio with decent hands for a third line.

Everybody loves Essy's effort. I still think he's a career AHL player who will be an injury call up at best. There's no way a guy like Barron will lose his job to him. I think you'll see Barron and Gagne moving all over the lines this year depending on injuries. If Torgs doesn't make the line-up, one of them will find a spot on the third line.
 

surixon

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Good post.

On the first line, I agree that Scheif, Ehlers and Connor could probably be more effective with one of them on another line. I'm thinking that Connor plays well with Perfetti and Dubois. However, I also understand that the Schief/Wheeler trio should finally be split up. How about Perfetti playing with Scheif and Ehlers? Perfetti is very much like a young Schiefele, but he is more of a playmaker/quarterback. This would allow Schiefele to use his great snap shot more often.

Still not sold on Heinola. I actually like Chisholm's game more at this point, but again... preseason doesn't mean a whole lot.

I agree with your take on Samberg. I think the best we'll get from him is a solid stay at home d-man. I would be okay with that if he develops a much needed mean streak.

Torgs played well. It's nice to see a big guy with good hands around the net. Of all the forward prospects and Moose guys, he intrigues me the most. How about him with Appleton and Lowry. Now, that's a very big trio with decent hands for a third line.

Everybody loves Essy's effort. I still think he's a career AHL player who will be an injury call up at best. There's no way a guy like Barron will lose his job to him. I think you'll see Barron and Gagne moving all over the lines this year depending on injuries. If Torgs doesn't make the line-up, one of them will find a spot on the third line.

Yeah I feel Cole would be a good fit with Mark as a RS finisher who can find space. Nik can push teams back with his speed.

I also think Chisholm performed best out of all younger LS dmen. I also think his game and tools may translate more easily to the NHL.
 
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Jetsfan79

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Guardian' posted the page previous to this one addressing all players minutes...
I saw that. I had assumed those ice time averages included power plays/penalty kill.

PP1 TOI in any team often goes beyond 45 seconds no matter which players are out there
 
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ps241

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It just gets harder the longer you wait though.

I'm onside with this...

Bones has years of video tape and first-hand knowledge of the Jets tendencies as an opposition coach...

Bad habits take time to change... Bones would do what I would do in any organizational structure once studied and appraised... act and act with impunity on issues identified...

This F's us up and has for years... as Jets fans we can't stand it... Peewee players wanting equal effort demand it of their teammates... midget... junior and pros...

Money or not they are subject to the same psychology pitfalls of any group of persons subjected together...

I was ruthless and without bend on these kind of issues in My organizations and they were by their very nature always chaotic... no way to change bad habits but being demanding with impunity...

You know this in your own operations ps'.... I know you do...

As for Bones doing this too earlier or publicly...? It's too late for convention... it's already public because the fans know and have known for years...

Yea I love that he is going to have a standard and the earlier the better. I like that he seems like he wants to correct the behavior, just wondering about going public already before you hammer the guys privately.
 

lomiller1

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Or you put:
Perfetti-Scheifele-Ehlers
Connor-Dubois-Wheeler
I'd want a guy who can take the hits on the forecheck and bang in the corners on each of those lines. Sure Ehlers probably can't do that but do you but do you want your top skill players to face the injury risks that come along with that? Plus there is only one puck and when you stack skill players together it cuts down on puck touches for all of them, and there are studies that show there is diminishing returns for stacking top players together.
 

John Agar

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Yea I love that he is going to have a standard and the earlier the better. I like that he seems like he wants to correct the behavior, just wondering about going public already before you hammer the guys privately.
A statement from Bones... for sure...

Not the old boss... Bones is a different boss...

He's just put the sacred cows on notice...
 

ps241

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A statement from Bones... for sure...

Not the old boss... Bones is a different boss...

He's just put the sacred cows on notice...

Yup hopefully the crew responds. I don't like the extended shifts.
 
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lomiller1

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Pretty sure he, back in Dallas, gave Joe Pavelski, among others, several ~5 mins shifts towards the end of games until he was barely moving anymore if the score was tight. All of a sudden in Winnipeg it's a problem? Seems more like a PR stunt to tell the media who the new boss is. I understand it's just preseason and that's not the same as regular season. Still, the point remains.

I checked out a few games and all the Dallas players including Pavelski seemed to be at or under 45 seconds per shift, that's almost 15 seconds shorter than the Jets top line is used to getting away with.
 

surixon

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Yea I love that he is going to have a standard and the earlier the better. I like that he seems like he wants to correct the behavior, just wondering about going public already before you hammer the guys privately.

For all we know he dis try privately first. Wonder if this was brought up between periods and there was no corrective behavior. Also wonder what if anything was don't previously on this by the past regimes. That could have played a role in Bowness quickly going to the media.

I checked out a few games and all the Dallas players including Pavelski seemed to be at or under 45 seconds per shift, that's almost 15 seconds shorter than the Jets top line is used to getting away with.

Yup, clearly there are times when players need to take an extended shift if they are trailing late or get stuck out but the norm needs to be quick and hard shifts.
 
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DeepFrickinValue

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Rolling 3 lines (and total minutes) is a separate issue from shift length. 20+ minutes for top lines should happen in a game because they get MORE shifts, not longer ones.

Shorter shifts =higher intensity, as long as they can recover before their next shift. Both issues are important (I'd still prefer more balanced deployment than what we've seen in the past from Mau) but the biggest thing I'd like to see is intensity on every shift rather than coasting. That should be a top priority.
Shift length is key to rolling more lines and intensity.

Lack of intensity is probably why our 2nd periods were blowouts last year.
 

cbcwpg

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For all we know he dis try privately first. Wonder if this was brought up between periods and there was no corrective behavior. Also wonder what if anything was don't previously on this by the past regimes. That could have played a role in Bowness quickly going to the media.

I don't see a coach like Bowman making a public statement about players staying out on the ice too long unless he has spoken to them first. The reason to go public is Bowness has said he will hold players accountable and they may not be listening. The public statement might get the message across...

If it doesn't get better, I'm wondering if we see a player stapled to the bench.
 

Joe Hallenback

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4 more games to get things going. Sounds like the Montreal game on Thursday will be a young lineup. I expect to see the full team the last 3 games

Things I liked
The defense activation. Again the forwards look lost when the D are doing this but its nice to see guys try to move the puck and quickly.
The Neutral zone aggression. I think a couple of our goals where totally from aggressive plays in the neutral zone that didn't allow the Sens to change lines.
Flooding the front of the net. They are really getting to the net and not allowing the goalie to see anything.

What I don't like
The long shifts. Keep calling it out Bones. Get off the ice and don't cheat for offense. I get that its pre season but its got to get through
The lack of low down puck support in our defensive end. Probably from a lack of understanding the system but the D need help and I felt our forwards were not coming back enough to help
 

surixon

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4 more games to get things going. Sounds like the Montreal game on Thursday will be a young lineup. I expect to see the full team the last 3 games

Things I liked
The defense activation. Again the forwards look lost when the D are doing this but its nice to see guys try to move the puck and quickly.
The Neutral zone aggression. I think a couple of our goals where totally from aggressive plays in the neutral zone that didn't allow the Sens to change lines.
Flooding the front of the net. They are really getting to the net and not allowing the goalie to see anything.

What I don't like
The long shifts. Keep calling it out Bones. Get off the ice and don't cheat for offense. I get that its pre season but its got to get through
The lack of low down puck support in our defensive end. Probably from a lack of understanding the system but the D need help and I felt our forwards were not coming back enough to help

Yeah give the young guys another game and then go forward with the majority of your roster in order to iron out those issues that you indicated.
 

Buffdog

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Re: shift length

To me, there are different kinds of shifts. Spending 55 seconds with puck possession in the o zone cycling and moving it around is WAY different than chasing possession in your own end (think of pp vs pk as extreme examples).

The fact we iced a much better roster might have led to having more o zone time (I only saw the third, and that's what it looked like to me when shiefs line was out there).

I mean we're talking about an average of 6 seconds here. It's not like they averaged 1:45 or something stupid
 

WolfHouse

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I’m not hung up on shift length but man I’m tired of seeing the first line coast to the bench and the second line immediately backpedaling once they got over the boards

If bowness changes that - that’s huge
 

DeepFrickinValue

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I don't see a coach like Bowman making a public statement about players staying out on the ice too long unless he has spoken to them first. The reason to go public is Bowness has said he will hold players accountable and they may not be listening. The public statement might get the message across...

If it doesn't get better, I'm wondering if we see a player stapled to the bench.
Start timing players shifts on the jumbotron if you really want to pressure them to change.
 

lomiller1

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Jan 13, 2015
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This


results in this:

1664395550809.png


I'm normally not all that concerned with a D-man playing 50 seconds a shift, but even Morrissey seems to have suffered.
 

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