Post-Game Talk: Prerequiste for preseason pre-game talk Canadiens Vs. Devils

Scriptor

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Good analysis. I agree, Xhekaj had trouble with the Devil's speed. While he is an intimidating force, he will have to be sheltered against quicker teams. But when Matheson plays, Xhekaj's ice time will be severelly reduced. I thought Harris played well. He was one of the few Montreal defencemen who could skate and execute against the Devil's pressure game. He doesn't get nearly the recognition here that he deserves. Guhle had a mediocre game and was vulnerable to the forecheck. Reinbacher showed what he wil bring in future: size, elite compete level; positioning and great defensive acumen. It was gutsy move to draft him above some of the other more touted forwards and that decision should pan out for team. But he clearly isn't ready to play effectively in the NHL this season. Mailloux played the way I expected, only better. I think he showed up well against a quick NHL team. His offensive vision and shot were well displayed. He threw more checks in this game than he did in a week of games last year in the OHL. While he has to get quicker, he clearly showed that he will be a major player for this team going forward starting in 24/25. There were no surprises with respect to the forwards. The AHLers showed they were AHLers. The fringe NHLers confirmed they are fringe NHLers. And the NHL players showed they were NHL players. I was impressed with Beck. His skating is already NHL level and he showed far more strength/power on his skates than I thought he had. This kid is a certain NHLer and may even make the team this year. As opposed to some, I thought Slafkovsky played a good game. He was noticeable. He was hitting, forechecking and was around the net. He played with energy and passion and brought an element of size to a largely smallish group of forwards on this team. Slafkovsky will make the team this year and by the end of the year will be a contributing player. If he stays healthy I can see him scoring 12 - 15 goals. As I noted earlier, until Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Slafkovsky become consistently contributing players, the depth of this team is illusory. For us to be competitive we need all hands on deck. Even then, we probably will be drafting in the top 10. And in 2024, that may not be such bad thing.
"As I noted earlier, until Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Slafkovsky become consistently contributing players, the depth of this team is illusory."

This is a key component to evaluating Montreal's chances of making the playoffs, forstartersam, then, of becoming eventual contender for a 25th Cup.

It's one thing to assume players like Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Slafkovsky, or, even, Guhle, Roy, Hutson, and whomever will slot in on this teaming meaningful roles.

However, they need to develop and actually become key contributors in those roles for the roster to be anything, really.

We are still years away.

Mailloux and Roy might play in Montreal full-time starting as early as next year, but they won't be in their prime either. Learning curve, mistakes, gradually increasing offensive and defensive contributions over the next few years until then.

That's why I still maintain, whomever becomes as good as projected from our prospects (some will, some won't, some will fall somewhwere in between), we won't remaking any major splash in the standings, or carving any carnage in the playoffs before Gallagher and Anderson have come off the books, after four more years, or five years from now, if you prefer (2027-2028).

That's not a statement on the value of Gallagher or Anderson, just a reference in time, and that is still contingent on prospects developing properly, Hughes astutely using the Cap space that will gradually be freed up, plus management properly analyzing what is missing from the roster and finding a way to add those pieces without sacrificing too much from the young core.

Tall order and, while enthusiasm, as a fan, may be tantamount to being considered one, there's no way this team does anything meaningful within the next three or four years.

Teams like PIT,BOS, WASH, etc. ageing less than gracefully over that time span also won't hurt Montreal's chances of becoming relevant by then.
 

ChesterNimitz

governed by the principle of calculated risk
Jul 4, 2002
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"As I noted earlier, until Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Slafkovsky become consistently contributing players, the depth of this team is illusory."

This is a key component to evaluating Montreal's chances of making the playoffs, forstartersam, then, of becoming eventual contender for a 25th Cup.

It's one thing to assume players like Mailloux, Reinbacher, Beck and Slafkovsky, or, even, Guhle, Roy, Hutson, and whomever will slot in on this teaming meaningful roles.

However, they need to develop and actually become key contributors in those roles for the roster to be anything, really.

We are still years away.

Mailloux and Roy might play in Montreal full-time starting as early as next year, but they won't be in their prime either. Learning curve, mistakes, gradually increasing offensive and defensive contributions over the next few years until then.

That's why I still maintain, whomever becomes as good as projected from our prospects (some will, some won't, some will fall somewhwere in between), we won't remaking any major splash in the standings, or carving any carnage in the playoffs before Gallagher and Anderson have come off the books, after four more years, or five years from now, if you prefer (2027-2028).

That's not a statement on the value of Gallagher or Anderson, just a reference in time, and that is still contingent on prospects developing properly, Hughes astutely using the Cap space that will gradually be freed up, plus management properly analyzing what is missing from the roster and finding a way to add those pieces without sacrificing too much from the young core.

Tall order and, while enthusiasm, as a fan, may be tantamount to being considered one, there's no way this team does anything meaningful within the next three or four years.

Teams like PIT,BOS, WASH, etc. ageing less than gracefully over that time span also won't hurt Montreal's chances of becoming relevant by then.
Well said. There is a reason most re-builds take 5 years, even if you are lucky enough to draft a supposedly generational player during that phase. I find it amusing that so many here were worried that the suppose wave of prospects arriving would result in adversely affecting the hoped for 'tank' this year. We may not be drafting 1 OA this year (unless we get lucky in the draft) but we should be in the top 10. And as I earlier posted, this is a very good year to be in the top 10. In ten months from now many will be very happy that we didn't foolishly surrender that first round pick in a desperate attempt to secure the next home town hero.
 
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Harry Kakalovich

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Sep 26, 2002
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From last night's game:

Anderson played well (NHL)

Newhook had trouble with the draws, but made some nice plays (NHL)

Slafkovsky had some nice dangle passes. Had a tough first period. I'd like to see him get some AHL games at some point, because I feel like there's a lot of skill ready to bust out. Still, was one of the best Habs forwards in this split squad game. (NHL/AHL)

Roy - he's so good! Wow! Gonna be hard to send him down! (NHL/AHL)

Beck - really like his game. Great on draws. So much jam. Another super tough decision. Ultimately think he heads back to junior? So hard to know. (OHL/NHL?)

Ylonen - I'm a big keep Ylonen guy, but I was pretty unimpressed by him. He's very vanilla. His shot is nice though. Still has great skating. Got better as the game continued. Can certainly play in the press box at this point. (NHL/AHL?)

Farrell - I really like his game. Showed the best on his line. Ultimately I think he'll start in the AHL because of the numbers game. (AHL)

Stephens - generally I wasn't all that impressed. (AHL)

Pezzetta - he didn't really do anything. Does he lose his spot? First time I started really considering this as a possibility. (NHL/AHL?)

Simoneau - nice pass to Roy on that first goal. Rest of the game he was generally not up to the level of the competition. I do believe he'll improve with more time. He's not ready. (AHL)

Condotta - my fav player on this line. Nice size. Skating seems maybe better? Was decently quick to get on loose picks. Is he waiver exempt? I like this guy. Is he such a dropoff from Pezzetta? I don't know. I think there might be something here moving forward. (AHL)

Légaré - I actually liked him. Hope he has a good year in Laval. (AHL)

Guhle - didn't seem to play very well. He's a guy I could see having a harder sophomore season. (NHL)

Reinbacher - he looked really good, but not ready. (NLA)

Harris - looked like the best dman for the Habs. Nice skating and processing. (NHL)

Mailloux - like his tools, but he's not ready. He probably benefitted from playing with Harris. (AHL)

Xhekaj - looked pretty uneven. Had some ok plays but also some pretty poor ones. I do think he could benefit a lot from playing in the AHL because the stuff he most needs to work on they teach down there. (NHL/AHL)

Barron - he's so vanilla. I don't know. He'll be competing with Kovacevic and Lindstrom and maybe one of the LHD to play the right side. He needs more gristle. Given the numbers game maybe he starts in the AHL again? I mean, no point keeping him up to play the press box, I don't think. (AHL?/NHL?)
 

morhilane

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I didn't watch all of the game last night (missed 1st period and stopped mid-way the 3rd). But I liked seeing Slaf improving overtime. That's a good sign. His cardio looks improved as well.

People are saying Newhook was losing all his faceoffs, but his faceoff % on natural stats trick is 53.33%. He looked good too.

Anderson is still Anderson, even with if he tried some fancy stickhandling. I don't like him with Slaf considering his lack of using his teammates. But this line was the best the Habs had on the ice this game.

The other forward that looked fine was Roy (mostly defensive in the timeframe I watched). That is it, the rest were struggling with various things, but I think the Devils had more NHL ready players on their line-up. Saying that, I wonder if Pezzetta makes it as the 14th forward this year...

In the net, Dobes and Monty did great dealing with the totally disorganized defense of the Habs. I feel bad for them. Dobes is making Primeau 100% expendable, but he still need coaching.

Reinbacher was steadiest D. Ghule looked off. Harris apparently played (I heard his name like once and it wasn't for a mistake so good I guess). Xhekaj, Barron and Mailloux where trying too much to be forwards.

Since this was the 1st real pre-season game, lots of players working through the rust and trying things, but the goalies will be peppered again this season.
 

Rapala

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Contending teams should have a taste of the playoffs before loading up and maxing cap commitments. Means we should be in the playoffs by next season.

Hughes made a mistake selling 2.3m in cap space in 2024/2025, he also made a mistake giving Allen that silly contract (3.7) and raise bringing the total dead cap from those two moves to c. 6m. Taking into account Gallagher, that’s over 12m in dead or ineffective cap for next season. Very tricky asset management but it shouldn’t be impossible to hit the playoffs next season.

If we miss the playoffs this year that will be three straight years, if we miss it next year it will be the first time in Habs history we miss the playoffs four seasons in a row. I hope not to see it.
We've already missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row* in normal times. I really don't get what kind of miracle you expect from our current management in year two of their tenure. The reality is we are still cleaning up from 7 years of drought. Did they make mistakes? Probably but the work they've done so far is the most proactive we've been since forever. The path hasn't changed .500 this year bubble next year and playoffs the following year. The historical lows this franchise has suffered has nothing to do with the current regime and the blame needs to be firmly deposited where it belongs.
 

Tyson

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We've already missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row* in normal times. I really don't get what kind of miracle you expect from our current management in year two of their tenure. The reality is we are still cleaning up from 7 years of drought. Did they make mistakes? Probably but the work they've done so far is the most proactive we've been since forever. The path hasn't changed .500 this year bubble next year and playoffs the following year. The historical lows this franchise has suffered has nothing to do with the current regime and the blame needs to be firmly deposited where it belongs.
Common sense post...pass it on!!
 

Jaynki

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Feb 3, 2014
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Contending teams should have a taste of the playoffs before loading up and maxing cap commitments. Means we should be in the playoffs by next season.

Hughes made a mistake selling 2.3m in cap space in 2024/2025, he also made a mistake giving Allen that silly contract (3.7) and raise bringing the total dead cap from those two moves to c. 6m. Taking into account Gallagher, that’s over 12m in dead or ineffective cap for next season. Very tricky asset management but it shouldn’t be impossible to hit the playoffs next season.

If we miss the playoffs this year that will be three straight years, if we miss it next year it will be the first time in Habs history we miss the playoffs four seasons in a row. I hope not to see it.
On the other hand, Hughes acquired a full year of draft pick for :

Acquiring Monahan (who turned out a positive for us)
Hoffman(negative value)
Pitlick (went unclaimed on waivers)
Poehling (no value)
2.3M for 2 years.

All of this for 1,2,3,4,5 RD pick in 2025.

Very tricky asset management indeed.
 

ReHabs

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Jan 18, 2022
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On the other hand, Hughes acquired a full year of draft pick for :

Acquiring Monahan (who turned out a positive for us)
Hoffman(negative value)
Pitlick (went unclaimed on waivers)
Poehling (no value)
2.3M for 2 years.

All of this for 1,2,3,4,5 RD pick in 2025.

Very tricky asset management indeed.
Draft picks aren’t the only assets we need to consider. Cap space and utilization factor in as well, surely you’d agree.

We’ll know how far along we are this year but we should absolutely expect playoffs next year (24-25), so if they manage to make it work despite the cap inefficiencies very well.

We've already missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row* in normal times. I really don't get what kind of miracle you expect from our current management in year two of their tenure. The reality is we are still cleaning up from 7 years of drought. Did they make mistakes? Probably but the work they've done so far is the most proactive we've been since forever. The path hasn't changed .500 this year bubble next year and playoffs the following year. The historical lows this franchise has suffered has nothing to do with the current regime and the blame needs to be firmly deposited where it belongs.
I don’t particularly care who is the GM of the Habs, do you? He’s a rookie GM anyway. Not like we have any attachment to him.

What matters is my team could have missed the playoffs for four years in a row for the first time in its history. I think that’s a sad situation no matter what purported “stage” we find ourselves. I don’t like or trust tanking, call me a romantic but I enjoy watching playoff hockey.
 

Jaynki

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Feb 3, 2014
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Draft picks aren’t the only assets we need to consider. Cap space and utilization factor in as well, surely you’d agree.

We’ll know how far along we are this year but we should absolutely expect playoffs next year (24-25), so if they manage to make it work despite the cap inefficiencies very well.
I totally agree and i even expect a team competing as soon as this year.

I think 2.3M for 2 years is worth it for a full set of picks tho and although very overpaid and a weak goalie in general, Allen terms is not a problem either and his contract will be buyable if needed. I think they find value in his leadership, for what its worth.

Armia, Dvorak, Evans will also all be in their final years (easily buyable) and cap is suppose to massively rise next year.

So while not ideal, cap space is not and wont be a problem. And we will have the assets to totally overpay for the next big RFA without really hurting us.
 

BLONG7

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We've already missed the playoffs 4 seasons in a row* in normal times. I really don't get what kind of miracle you expect from our current management in year two of their tenure. The reality is we are still cleaning up from 7 years of drought. Did they make mistakes? Probably but the work they've done so far is the most proactive we've been since forever. The path hasn't changed .500 this year bubble next year and playoffs the following year. The historical lows this franchise has suffered has nothing to do with the current regime and the blame needs to be firmly deposited where it belongs.
Our team has been dog-$hit since 2017..........plain and simple. Anyhow, moving forward...
These guys are on year 2 and gaining steam.........two more years.
We will pick top 10 again next year, more than likely.
Expecting anything different, would just be wishful thinking guys..........we will be better, but we are not there yet....
We are in good hands...

Draft picks aren’t the only assets we need to consider. Cap space and utilization factor in as well, surely you’d agree.

We’ll know how far along we are this year but we should absolutely expect playoffs next year (24-25), so if they manage to make it work despite the cap inefficiencies very well.


I don’t particularly care who is the GM of the Habs, do you? He’s a rookie GM anyway. Not like we have any attachment to him.

What matters is my team could have missed the playoffs for four years in a row for the first time in its history. I think that’s a sad situation no matter what purported “stage” we find ourselves. I don’t like or trust tanking, call me a romantic but I enjoy watching playoff hockey.
The sad situation has been in full force since they let Bergevin start his second term.....pretty much 7 years ago......that's sad.
This is going to to take a little more patience.....we gave a clown 10 years, so...............
 

ReHabs

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I totally agree and i even expect a team competing as soon as this year.

I think 2.3M for 2 years is worth it for a full set of picks tho and although very overpaid and a weak goalie in general, Allen terms is not a problem either and his contract will be buyable if needed. I think they find value in his leadership, for what its worth.

Armia, Dvorak, Evans will also all be in their final years (easily buyable) and cap is suppose to massively rise next year.

So while not ideal, cap space is not and wont be a problem. And we will have the assets to totally overpay for the next big RFA without really hurting us.
You’re right

Additionally we wouldn’t have utilized that space anyway because it is unlikely any team would sign multiple big name FAs or acquire multiple big cap hits in a single summer window. We have sufficient space opening up next summer and the cap is rising. While I maintain it is tricky to have to carry dead weight or dead cap, I’ll concede that in general cap space shouldn’t be an issue for the following season.

I feel this year we will enjoy some big time gains with at least one of our lesser heralded youngsters (my money is on Roy) — that’ll go a long way in making up gains in cap efficiency all by itself.
 
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morhilane

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Our team has been dog-$hit since 2017..........plain and simple. Anyhow, moving forward...
These guys are on year 2 and gaining steam.........two more years.
We will pick top 10 again next year, more than likely.
Expecting anything different, would just be wishful thinking guys..........we will be better, but we are not there yet....
We are in good hands...
The team might have been dog-$hit since 2017, but MB was still trying to compete until he was fired in the 2021-2022 season. Leaving a train wreck with too many "useless zero value big contract" on the line-up and too many injury prone players. Hughes has spend more time cleaning that up than doing rebuilding moves so far.

I can't imagine what it would be looking like without MB being lucky with Suzuki (asked for Glass, settled for Suzuki) and Caufield (at least 5 teams passed on him at the draft)...
 
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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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Draft picks aren’t the only assets we need to consider. Cap space and utilization factor in as well, surely you’d agree.

We’ll know how far along we are this year but we should absolutely expect playoffs next year (24-25), so if they manage to make it work despite the cap inefficiencies very well.


I don’t particularly care who is the GM of the Habs, do you? He’s a rookie GM anyway. Not like we have any attachment to him.

What matters is my team could have missed the playoffs for four years in a row for the first time in its history. I think that’s a sad situation no matter what purported “stage” we find ourselves. I don’t like or trust tanking, call me a romantic but I enjoy watching playoff hockey.

It feels like your expectations are completely divorced from reality tbh. No one likes "tanking" and everybody likes playoff hockey. But setting expectations because you like playoff hockey is stupid.

Montreal is in one of, if not the most difficult division in hockey. And Bergevin's push to both compete and retool left Montreal without much in the way of blue-chip prospects, good trade capital, and a truly terrible cap situation. If Montreal is even competing for a playoff spot next season, it will be a monumental achievement. They have no established first line players, #1 D-man or #1 goalie. They lack high-end depth at every position. They've added young talent with upside the last couple of offseasons, but they need time to develop and to hit on that upside.

If you're thinking playoffs next season and are complaining about acquiring 2.3 mil in dead cap and a goalie making under 4 mil, then you've completely lost the plot. Montreal is going up against teams with established cores with star players and the career highs of their top 2 players are 66 points and 43 points. Montreal is still in the "what do we need?" stage of the rebuild. An extra 6 mil in cap-space isn't going to make all that much of a difference, especially since Montreal should have something like 12 mil to spend one or two guys next offseason if they want to.
 

ReHabs

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Jan 18, 2022
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It feels like your expectations are completely divorced from reality tbh. No one likes "tanking" and everybody likes playoff hockey. But setting expectations because you like playoff hockey is stupid.

Montreal is in one of, if not the most difficult division in hockey. And Bergevin's push to both compete and retool left Montreal without much in the way of blue-chip prospects, good trade capital, and a truly terrible cap situation. If Montreal is even competing for a playoff spot next season, it will be a monumental achievement. They have no established first line players, #1 D-man or #1 goalie. They lack high-end depth at every position. They've added young talent with upside the last couple of offseasons, but they need time to develop and to hit on that upside.

If you're thinking playoffs next season and are complaining about acquiring 2.3 mil in dead cap and a goalie making under 4 mil, then you've completely lost the plot. Montreal is going up against teams with established cores with star players and the career highs of their top 2 players are 66 points and 43 points. Montreal is still in the "what do we need?" stage of the rebuild. An extra 6 mil in cap-space isn't going to make all that much of a difference, especially since Montreal should have something like 12 mil to spend one or two guys next offseason if they want to.
Hughes will have had three years to rebuild the team. If you think that is insufficient to get to 8th in the conference, I think that’s your low standards.

Hughes inherited a 1OA pick, Caufield, Suzuki, Guhle, and a carte blanche to sell NHL assets. If he can’t add the requisite talent to finish in the top8 of a 16 team conference after three years, I think that’s his problem.

GMs shouldn’t get half a decade+ to twaddle around whistling frere jacques.
 
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MasterD

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Jul 1, 2004
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It feels like your expectations are completely divorced from reality tbh. No one likes "tanking" and everybody likes playoff hockey. But setting expectations because you like playoff hockey is stupid.

Montreal is in one of, if not the most difficult division in hockey. And Bergevin's push to both compete and retool left Montreal without much in the way of blue-chip prospects, good trade capital, and a truly terrible cap situation. If Montreal is even competing for a playoff spot next season, it will be a monumental achievement. They have no established first line players, #1 D-man or #1 goalie. They lack high-end depth at every position. They've added young talent with upside the last couple of offseasons, but they need time to develop and to hit on that upside.

If you're thinking playoffs next season and are complaining about acquiring 2.3 mil in dead cap and a goalie making under 4 mil, then you've completely lost the plot. Montreal is going up against teams with established cores with star players and the career highs of their top 2 players are 66 points and 43 points. Montreal is still in the "what do we need?" stage of the rebuild. An extra 6 mil in cap-space isn't going to make all that much of a difference, especially since Montreal should have something like 12 mil to spend one or two guys next offseason if they want to.
Wouldnt bank on it.

Bunch of guys (Guhle, Xhekaj, Barron, Slafkosvky, etc) will need bigger deals in the next few years.

Plus, like you said, we still don't have any real gamebeaking talent. Maybe Hutson. We need more of that before we make any kind of push

Hughes will have had three years to rebuild the team. If you think that is insufficient to get to 8th in the conference, I think that’s your low standards.

Hughes inherited a 1OA pick, Caufield, Suzuki, Guhle, and a carte blanche to sell NHL assets. If he can’t add the requisite talent to finish in the top8 of a 16 team conference after three years, I think that’s his problem.

GMs shouldn’t get half a decade+ to twaddle around whistling frere jacques.
Finishing 8th in a conference shouldn't be the goal. I'd rather suck a year or two more but then be talked about in the same tier as Tampa and Colorado and Vegas
 

ReHabs

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Jan 18, 2022
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Finishing 8th in a conference shouldn't be the goal. I'd rather suck a year or two more but then be talked about in the same tier as Tampa and Colorado and Vegas
To get to that tier, barring aggressive wheeling and dealing (Vegas), the team has to make the playoffs and optimize. Tampa smoked the regular season and then got smoked in the first round, after that they had success in the playoffs. Colorado went through two rebuilds, something nobody sane would vouch as a successful and reliable strategy.

It is nobody's desire to have a middle of the road team, but a rebuild shouldn't take four whole years in my opinion -- there are far too many downside risks to an extended period of losing. Buffalo and Edmonton come to mind. Not to mention: if you're banking on us drafting high this year and next year, then you surely don't expect our core players to amount to much at all. If we draft top5 this year, what does that mean of Suzuki et al. contribution? If we draft top5 next year, what does that imply of Slafkovsky's growth? Can none of these players get us out of the gutter? That's an even bigger problem, wouldn't you agree?

Bunch of guys (Guhle, Xhekaj, Barron, Slafkosvky, etc) will need bigger deals in the next few years.
Not sure how you can square the above text with your response to me. If they need bigger deals, they'll have earned it with sufficiently better performances -- wouldn't that imply we won't be drafting top5 in 2024 or 2025?
 

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