Premier League 2020-21 (Part III)

[Havre]

Good thing being a racist only gives you 3 games. Haha. The incompetence is quite shocking.

A) you say it is racist then he should be banned for a lot more than 3 games

B) you say he just used a Spanish word that could he misunderstood. You give him 0 games.

Instead they go for some weak #&÷&÷& like this. What are they supposed to do now if someone says something racist the next time? Give that player 3 games as well?

 

[Halladay]

Good thing being a racist only gives you 3 games. Haha. The incompetence is quite shocking.

A) you say it is racist then he should be banned for a lot more than 3 games

B) you say he just used a Spanish word that could he misunderstood. You give him 0 games.

Instead they go for some weak #&÷&÷& like this. What are they supposed to do now if someone says something racist the next time? Give that player 3 games as well?

Stop it, we have gone over this countless times before. We arent doing it again.

 

[Havre]

Stop it, we have gone over this countless times before.

We have discussed the ban before?

 

[Halladay]

We have discussed the ban before?

We arent discussing this, so stop. That is the end of this.

 

[Havre]

We arent discussing this, so stop. That is the end of this.

Well argued.

 

[Blender]

Youth Academy army to play against Morecombe.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

On December 14 there were not outbreaks at multiple Premier League sides. There are now. If Sam Allardyce gets COVID, Sam Allardyce dies. I'm assuming he has a wife around the same age, so she'd be high risk too. And he's not the only one. If Roy Hodgson gets COVID?

And we still have no idea what the long term consequences are, even for asymptomatic COVID. The last thing we need is a bunch of players getting really severe long term lung damage.

 

[YNWA14]

On December 14 there were not outbreaks at multiple Premier League sides. There are now. If Sam Allardyce gets COVID, Sam Allardyce dies. I'm assuming he has a wife around the same age, so she'd be high risk too. And he's not the only one. If Roy Hodgson gets COVID?

That's quite the absolute. Why would Sam Allardyce be guaranteed to die of something he has more than a 90% chance of surviving even if he were considered high risk? Roy as well. King Kenny's already had it and he's fine, most likely these guys will get top of the line medical treatment. Trump has had multiple high risk health issues before COVID and he's doing fine (these are just high profile examples, again, the vast majority of even 60, 70 and even 80+ year olds that have had COVID do not die, nor have long term effects). That's not to say that I want them to get sick or that there is no risk, because we don't want anyone getting sick or catching COVID, but it's not some instant death sentence either. Keep in mind those numbers are also based on admittedly inflated COVID death numbers (this has already been released in multiple places that they are not attempting to determine what killed someone if they test positive for COVID, at least in NA), and most likely a very large number of missing positive cases due to not being tested so the danger, statistically, is actually less.

Should they continue to take precautions? Absolutely. Especially people who are high risk should take the most precautions and be taken care of. I still don't think that shutting everything down is the way to go.

 

[Blender]

That's quite the absolute. Why would Sam Allardyce be guaranteed to die of something he has more than a 90% chance of surviving even if he were considered high risk? Roy as well. King Kenny's already had it and he's fine, most likely these guys will get top of the line medical treatment. Trump has had multiple high risk health issues before COVID and he's doing fine (these are just high profile examples, again, the vast majority of even 60, 70 and even 80+ year olds that have had COVID do not die, nor have long term effects). That's not to say that I want them to get sick or that there is no risk, because we don't want anyone getting sick or catching COVID, but it's not some instant death sentence either. Keep in mind those numbers are also based on admittedly inflated COVID death numbers (this has already been released in multiple places that they are not attempting to determine what killed someone if they test positive for COVID, at least in NA), and most likely a very large number of missing positive cases due to not being tested so the danger, statistically, is actually less.

Should they continue to take precautions? Absolutely. Especially people who are high risk should take the most precautions and be taken care of. I still don't think that shutting everything down is the way to go.

This isn't the COVID subforum so we likely can't get into it here, but claiming the numbers are inflated is laughable. If anything they are undereported. A few anecdotes of deaths that are misclassified and later corrected that are blown up in the media by people with an agenda is not evidence that the numbers are inflated, nor are they "admittedly inflated". Choose your sources of information better.

 

[hatterson]

This isn't the COVID subforum so we likely can't get into it here, but claiming the numbers are inflated is laughable. If anything they are undereported. A few anecdotes of deaths that are misclassified and later corrected that are blown up in the media by people with an agenda is not evidence that the numbers are inflated, nor are they "admittedly inflated". Choose your sources of information better.

The numbers *are* an undercount. Anyone with even the remotest concept of statistics can see that plain as day.

 

[Live in the Now]

The numbers *are* an undercount. Anyone with even the remotest concept of statistics can see that plain as day.

Also, we should stop acting like the only people dying because of COVID are those who had COVID. There are countless people who have died because they don't receive the same level of medical care now that the system is overworked. In addition there are those who neglect to seek care because they know that they have bad medical issues and that if they get COVID while seeking care, it will kill them.

 

[YNWA14]

This isn't the COVID subforum so we likely can't get into it here, but claiming the numbers are inflated is laughable. If anything they are undereported. A few anecdotes of deaths that are misclassified and later corrected that are blown up in the media by people with an agenda is not evidence that the numbers are inflated, nor are they "admittedly inflated". Choose your sources of information better.

I'll search for the link but this has nothing to do with anecdote and everything to do with how they classify deaths in order to overprepare for the pandemic and was released by doctors and public health officials, not the media.

“The mortality data sent to the Ministry and reported in (Ottawa Public Health) dashboard/reports represents the number of Ottawa residents with confirmed COVID-19 who have passed away,” an Ottawa Public Health spokesperson explained via email. “It does not indicate if COVID-19 was the cause of death, and we can’t make that inference.”

According to local health units, this reporting process is required by the province.

“Toronto Public Health continues to follow the provincial definition for how COVID-19 deaths are categorized,” said Dr. Vinita Dubey, Toronto’s associate medical officer of health. “This means that individuals who have died with COVID-19, but not necessarily as a result of COVID-19, are all included in the case counts for COVID-19 deaths in Toronto.”

Toronto Public Health would not provide the number of persons who died with but not necessarily from COVID-19 and would not confirm whether or not they had tallied such a figure.

It may be that health units are not even attempting to put together such data.

“It hasn’t been routine practice for public health units to get the death certificates or any follow-up physician and/or coroner reports that determine whether COVID-19 was the underlying or contributing cause of death,” said a spokesperson for Peel Public Health. “The Ministry has asked health units, however, to report through our provincial reporting systems: all deaths who have died with COVID-19 whether or not it was the cause of death.”

Just a local example, but I've seen a few similar releases (by Public Health Officials) that I'm too lazy to search at the moment but would be happy to discuss further.

Without even knowing my source though how can you make that claim? The likelihood of the deathrate being inflated is much more likely than the opposite given how contagious COVID is meant to be and the likelihood of the reported cases of COVID vastly under-representing how many people have actually had it and either a) not been tested or b) not had any symptoms or a combination of both, obviously. So it's much more likely that it's less dangerous than the numbers suggest (which is not very dangerous to most people, something like 80% of all COVID related deaths in Canada have come in LTC homes which is scary in and of itself, for different reasons).

That said, like you said, this isn't the place for a full on COVID discussion but I just found it a bit extreme to be saying if someone gets it they will die, and implying the same to a couple others when there's much more evidence to the contrary. Would be happy to continue elsewhere, respectfully.

 

[Blender]

I'll search for the link but this has nothing to do with anecdote and everything to do with how they classify deaths in order to overprepare for the pandemic and was released by doctors and public health officials, not the media.



Just a local example, but I've seen a few similar releases (by Public Health Officials) that I'm too lazy to search at the moment but would be happy to discuss further.

Without even knowing my source though how can you make that claim? The likelihood of the deathrate being inflated is much more likely than the opposite given how contagious COVID is meant to be and the likelihood of the reported cases of COVID vastly under-representing how many people have actually had it and either a) not been tested or b) not had any symptoms or a combination of both, obviously. So it's much more likely that it's less dangerous than the numbers suggest (which is not very dangerous to most people, something like 80% of all COVID related deaths in Canada have come in LTC homes which is scary in and of itself, for different reasons).

That said, like you said, this isn't the place for a full on COVID discussion but I just found it a bit extreme to be saying if someone gets it they will die, and implying the same to a couple others when there's much more evidence to the contrary. Would be happy to continue elsewhere, respectfully.

So since you didn't provide a link I dropped some of that quote into google and came up with a Toronto Sun article, so like I said careful of your sources.

The deathrate relative to total cases is likely inflated because we are missing tons of cases just based on the percent positive testing rates, but that's not what you said. You said COVID death numbers are inflated, which is blatantly incorrect. If anything, we're missing deaths due to inadequate testing and terrible contact tracing.

 

[YNWA14]

So since you didn't provide a link I dropped some of that quote into google and came up with a Toronto Sun article, so like I said careful of your sources.

The deathrate relative to total cases is likely inflated because we are missing tons of cases just based on the percent positive testing rates, but that's not what you said. You said COVID death numbers are inflated, which is blatantly incorrect. If anything, we're missing deaths due to inadequate testing and terrible contact tracing.

I quoted what the officials themselves said, fwiw, and it wasn't from the Sun. That said we can agree to disagree on that point being blatantly incorrect given the way they're counting deaths. I don't think prevalence data is accurate or close to being representative now so it's not really possible to say conclusively either way, and I could see why you feel the way you do. This was the quote about overestimation:

“In a pandemic, it’s better to overestimate than underestimate COVID deaths,” said Dr. Prabhat Jha, an epidemiologist and Professor of Global Health at University of Toronto. “The U.K. and other country data show that COVID killed mostly people in nursing homes in the March-June peak months, but the excess deaths were seen not only where COVID was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, but also in those where it was not (albeit a smaller peak than for COVID).”

 

[Blender]

I quoted what the officials themselves said, fwiw, and it wasn't from the Sun. That said we can agree to disagree on that point being blatantly incorrect given the way they're counting deaths. I don't think prevalence data is accurate or close to being representative now so it's not really possible to say conclusively either way, and I could see why you feel the way you do. This was the quote about overestimation:

Your quote actually supports under reporting, not over reporting. They are saying that excess death numbers are resulting in more deaths than they are expecting from other causes, and are likely as a result of COVID but not getting reported as such in the stats. This is why the consensus is that official death numbers are actually low, as excess death numbers are much higher than expected considering all of the factors involved.

 

[hatterson]

Your quote actually supports under reporting, not over reporting. They are saying that excess death numbers are resulting in more deaths than they are expecting from other causes, and are likely as a result of COVID but not getting reported as such in the stats. This is why the consensus is that official death numbers are actually low, as excess death numbers are much higher than expected considering all of the factors involved.

That also aligns with basically every other pandemic type situation in modern history and why death totals for those situations are continually revised (almost always upwards) even years later as more study is done.

In regards to missing cases, there just isn’t any evidence that we’re missing a significant amount of cases right now. When randomized testing has been done it hasn’t revealed case rates out of line with the current standard testing process suggests and anti body testing also hasn’t revealed a high number of undiagnosed cases resulting in immunity.

 

[Havre]

Allardyce is 66. Among the people between 60-69 testing positive for Covid 0.18% have died in Norway. It is correct that Allardyce will die if he tests positive for Covid-19, but he will also die if he never gets it.

 

[Gecklund]

What the f*** did this thread become? Holy hell

 

[Halladay]

There is a coronavirus forum if you want to discuss these numbers there, or you can always direct message each other if you like.

 

[YNWA14]

Your quote actually supports under reporting, not over reporting. They are saying that excess death numbers are resulting in more deaths than they are expecting from other causes, and are likely as a result of COVID but not getting reported as such in the stats. This is why the consensus is that official death numbers are actually low, as excess death numbers are much higher than expected considering all of the factors involved.

These are good, and fair points to consider.

 

[verbalkint47]

Up the Villa. Down with covid talk outside the covid thread.

 

[Blender]

 

[S E P H]

This isn't the COVID subforum so we likely can't get into it here, but claiming the numbers are inflated is laughable. If anything they are undereported. A few anecdotes of deaths that are misclassified and later corrected that are blown up in the media by people with an agenda is not evidence that the numbers are inflated, nor are they "admittedly inflated". Choose your sources of information better.

I can't speak for Canada, but in the USA majority of States still recognize Covid "deaths" as anything a person dies from while they have Covid. For example, if you have Covid and die from something unrelated like diabetes or a gunshot, that death has to be labelled as a "Covid" death. A reason why hospitals want to label as many people with Covid as possible is that they get more governmental funding for amount of Covid patients they're treating (even if that's not entirely the case). It's like how a big portion of USA shooting statistics also include suicides from gunshots, as the government classifies that as a "gunshot death" increasing the gunshots more than the actual number.

I work in a handful of hospitals and I know a lot of people in each specific one, I've given hugs to people that exhibited the signs of Covid days later and not get it (I've also been in operating rooms with patients that were Covid+ and ICU suites that had 50+ Covid+ patients). Majority of the people who I know that have gotten it have all turned out to be fine, whereas I've also seen a 24 year old die from it (the patient was extremely obese). This isn't to reduce the viruses impact, but making a point is that whenever you turn on the news they're only showing you deaths. All they talk about is the deaths in numbers. All they describe is scenes where refrigerator lorries are needed as extra morgues. I understand that there are people who need to watch out, I have a neighbour who has breast cancer and I know that LITN has a really sick mother. We need to watch out for them, but to also mention that the deliriousness is also quite apparent which gets exacerbated by the media.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Also, we should stop acting like the only people dying because of COVID are those who had COVID. There are countless people who have died because they don't receive the same level of medical care now that the system is overworked. In addition there are those who neglect to seek care because they know that they have bad medical issues and that if they get COVID while seeking care, it will kill them.

Not to mention the thousands who died without being diagnosed and they don't test dead people.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Unless"ALK Capital" can actually put serious money into the club, I don't know if that's a good deal for either party.