Premier League 2019-20 part II

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Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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All of this is to ensure each country or healthcare system doesn't encounter more Coronavirus patients than it has hospital beds, or more importantly respirators. Italy has so many deaths because it's facing too many infections at once, so many of the deaths are attributable to a lack of available equipment.

If you have 100 respirators but 200 patients all need them at once, that's bad news. But if you can spread those 200 infections out over 4 months through social distancing and closings, you then have a surplus of respirators and fewer deaths attributable to a lack of equipment. This is the goal.

Yes. That part is clear. What is not clear is how many are already infected without much symptoms etc.

If there are currently 1000 cases in a country known and 50 of those are in hospital - you can extrapolate how much capacity is needed. But no-one knows if it is really 50 out of 1000 or if the real number of infected people are for example 30 000 (suggested by some that the real number of infected people is about 30x the number known - obviously also a guess).

We can only hope there is a lot more people already infected that we don't know about. Sounds unlikely, but I like to stay positive.
 

Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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Who says anything about stopping this. The goal is to slow it down like what kyle said.

Singapore is doing a really good job of controlling this right now so that hospitals have enough resources to treat their patients.

While we have other countries that are at risk of being overwhelmed where people are running marathons and licking toilet seats because "it's just the flu bro."

Well. You were criticizing someone for even mentioning cost benefit. I just explained that Singapore (your example) are using cost benefit - and will "allow" more people to get sick. In other words they will be doing what you criticizing someone for suggesting we will have to do at some point.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
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People die from the coronavirus. f*** off with your bullshit.
People die from starvation, suicide, drug overdoses, and many other sicknesses and accidents every single day. It's the only reason this coronavirus is even a worldwide issue since the health systems in the world are already so taxed that they can't handle a large influx of something else on top of all of those things at once. That's reality. It's not bullshit that people are going to lose their jobs, their businesses, their livelihoods (and in turn, not be able to take care of themselves or their families, or worse) if the economy collapses or if they have to stay locked out for extended periods of time. On a personal level everyone can relate to being upset if someone in their family dies from a sickness, I've been through it, it sucks. The thing is that policy makers, governments and so on can't operate on the emotions on an individual level. At a certain point they have to think of what best benefits society and unfortunately sometimes that means putting the economy and societal wellbeing over a relatively small number of lives. I have many people in my family that are at risk for this virus, so I'm doing what I can and getting them to do what they can also. Unlike you, I can still have a rational discussion about what I think is actually going to happen regardless of my personal feelings or fears and can still look at a bigger scope of things (speaking of entitled and privileged).

If I were to apply his logic on himself - he is a Liverpool fan so the only thing that matters is for the season to be restarted as quickly as possible.

Obviously I don't believe he/she thinks that, but that is about the level he/she uses when posting on here at the moment.

And I believe his post in this case is correct - not short term, but at some point there will have to be a cost benefit analysis done. It would be surprise me if that analysis doesn't show that we have to accept people getting sick. Time will show.
I don't care when they restart, or if they give Liverpool the title. I've already detailed my thoughts on that before any of this got as bad as it is. Whether they award the title or not it doesn't change what happened this season or the historic form that Liverpool have shown since last season, the trophies they have won, and so on. My post was a comment on the fact that you take shots at people constantly then act as if you're some kind of victim when people do the same, you tell people they're ignorant or imply it and say they aren't willing to consider a different perspective when you are exactly the same. It's hypocritical and shows a complete lack of self awareness. I've provided examples as to why I think a certain outcome could happen, but at the end of the day it really doesn't change this season one way or another for me.
 

phisherman

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Apr 17, 2015
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Well. You were criticizing someone for even mentioning cost benefit. I just explained that Singapore (your example) are using cost benefit - and will "allow" more people to get sick. In other words they will be doing what you criticizing someone for suggesting we will have to do at some point.

They're not allowing people to get sick. They took quick action to not let things get out of control.

Widespread available testing, distribution of face masks, and closing down schools are some of the things these countries did to not get it to the levels of Italy and Iran.

Their cost benefit analysis was prevent the spread early to prevent as much death as possible.

The cost benefit of other countries was to let people die to not tank the economy.
 

Burner Account

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Feb 14, 2008
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Yes. That part is clear. What is not clear is how many are already infected without much symptoms etc.

If there are currently 1000 cases in a country known and 50 of those are in hospital - you can extrapolate how much capacity is needed. But no-one knows if it is really 50 out of 1000 or if the real number of infected people are for example 30 000 (suggested by some that the real number of infected people is about 30x the number known - obviously also a guess).

We can only hope there is a lot more people already infected that we don't know about. Sounds unlikely, but I like to stay positive.
Agreed, this is probably the case – at least in the U.S. where it's been very difficult for patients to get tested unless they're very symptomatic or rich.
 

phisherman

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Apr 17, 2015
3,347
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People die from starvation, suicide, drug overdoses, and many other sicknesses and accidents every single day. It's the only reason this coronavirus is even a worldwide issue since the health systems in the world are already so taxed that they can't handle a large influx of something else on top of all of those things at once. That's reality. It's not bullshit that people are going to lose their jobs, their businesses, their livelihoods (and in turn, not be able to take care of themselves or their families, or worse) if the economy collapses or if they have to stay locked out for extended periods of time. On a personal level everyone can relate to being upset if someone in their family dies from a sickness, I've been through it, it sucks. The thing is that policy makers, governments and so on can't operate on the emotions on an individual level. At a certain point they have to think of what best benefits society and unfortunately sometimes that means putting the economy and societal wellbeing over a relatively small number of lives. I have many people in my family that are at risk for this virus, so I'm doing what I can and getting them to do what they can also. Unlike you, I can still have a rational discussion about what I think is actually going to happen regardless of my personal feelings or fears and can still look at a bigger scope of things (speaking of entitled and privileged).

A lot of what you listed are based on an individual's actions. And the economy never goes straight up. Was 2008 because of the coronavirus? A lot of people lost their livelihoods that time.

Your initial reaction to the coronavirus is exactly in line with why countries have taken so long to act on this.
 

Havre

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
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They're not allowing people to get sick. They took quick action to not let things get out of control.

Widespread available testing, distribution of face masks, and closing down schools are some of the things these countries did to not get it to the levels of Italy and Iran.

Their cost benefit analysis was prevent the spread early to prevent as much death as possible.

The cost benefit of other countries was to let people die to not tank the economy.

They will let it happen.

As for the execution clearly some countries did better than others.
 

Vancouver Canucks

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Feb 8, 2015
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People die from starvation, suicide, drug overdoses, and many other sicknesses and accidents every single day. It's the only reason this coronavirus is even a worldwide issue since the health systems in the world are already so taxed that they can't handle a large influx of something else on top of all of those things at once. That's reality. It's not bullshit that people are going to lose their jobs, their businesses, their livelihoods (and in turn, not be able to take care of themselves or their families, or worse) if the economy collapses or if they have to stay locked out for extended periods of time. On a personal level everyone can relate to being upset if someone in their family dies from a sickness, I've been through it, it sucks. The thing is that policy makers, governments and so on can't operate on the emotions on an individual level. At a certain point they have to think of what best benefits society and unfortunately sometimes that means putting the economy and societal wellbeing over a relatively small number of lives. I have many people in my family that are at risk for this virus, so I'm doing what I can and getting them to do what they can also. Unlike you, I can still have a rational discussion about what I think is actually going to happen regardless of my personal feelings or fears and can still look at a bigger scope of things (speaking of entitled and privileged).

The thing is that there's no current vaccine for it, and the virus has the potential to become even more virulent, so causing more sicknesses and possibly deaths for immunocompromised individuals. Sports players are not an exception. In fact, we haven't hit the worst of times on this virus yet.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
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The thing is that there's no current vaccine for it, and the virus has the potential to become even more virulent, so causing more sicknesses and possibly deaths for immunocompromised individuals. Sports players are not an exception. In fact, we haven't hit the worst of times on this virus yet.
What do you mean sports players are not an exception? Also what do you mean the virus has the potential to become even more virulent? South Korea has 'flattened the curve' in less than a month; obviously they were prepared a little better and reacted well, but Canada for example is in the process of shutting down non-essential services and implementing social distancing on top of travel bans, etc. with only a couple hundred cases as well. That's on top of Canada probably naturally being a more difficult country to spread the virus compared to more populous/smaller countries or the whole of Europe where the infrastructure is very different. Many countries in Europe seem to be having a more encouraging trend as well than places like Italy and Iran. That said yeah, some countries still have yet to hit the peak of this virus, but it's still really hard to say what that is and it varies country to country.
 

Vancouver Canucks

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Feb 8, 2015
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What do you mean sports players are not an exception? Also what do you mean the virus has the potential to become even more virulent? South Korea has 'flattened the curve' in less than a month; obviously they were prepared a little better and reacted well, but Canada for example is in the process of shutting down non-essential services and implementing social distancing on top of travel bans, etc. with only a couple hundred cases as well. That's on top of Canada probably naturally being a more difficult country to spread the virus compared to more populous/smaller countries or the whole of Europe where the infrastructure is very different. Many countries in Europe seem to be having a more encouraging trend as well than places like Italy and Iran. That said yeah, some countries still have yet to hit the peak of this virus, but it's still really hard to say what that is and it varies country to country.

Yeah, I understand places like Korea and Taiwan have shown exemplary effort in containing the virus. North America hasn't had many cases as Europe does right now. However, Europe is hit hard, and this isn't the worst of the virus. Death tolls have the potential to rise, if people don't take preventative measures. In fact, a vaccine isn't developed yet. I agree that starvation, deaths from flu, and other factors create more deaths, but we don't want to worsen the tragedy because of this pandemic, right?
 

THE HOFF

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Sep 26, 2007
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Yeah, I understand places like Korea and Taiwan have shown exemplary effort in containing the virus. North America hasn't had many cases as Europe does right now. However, Europe is hit hard, and this isn't the worst of the virus. Death tolls have the potential to rise, if people don't take preventative measures. In fact, a vaccine isn't developed yet. I agree that starvation, deaths from flu, and other factors create more deaths, but we don't want to worsen the tragedy because of this pandemic, right?

Vaccine is now on trial but most importantly there are some effective cures for the virus. Cuba's Interferon B is being used in China and now in Italy (with the help of Chinese and Cuban doctors) and has shown to be very efficient. Of all countries, Cuba has emerged as a global leader by providing a viable cure (created in 1986) and dispatching personnel in central and south america, Africa, Europe and Asia. America's stubborn attitude towards Cuba might directly result in some avoidable deaths, which I personally find profoundly sad and totally self inflicted.
 
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Vancouver Canucks

Registered User
Feb 8, 2015
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Vaccine is now on trial but most importantly there are some effective cures for the virus. Cuba's Interferon B is being used in China and now in Italy (with the help of Chinese and Cuban doctors) and has shown to be very efficient. Of all countries, Cuba has emerged as a global leader by providing a viable cure (created in 1986) and dispatching personnel in central and south america, Africa, Europe and Asia. America's stubborn attitude towards Cuba might directly result in some avoidable deaths, which I personally find profoundly sad and totally self inflicted.

Trials could take months or even more than a year. Usually, people with strong immune systems can overcome this virus with those types of medcations. Surely, they are effective, but those with suppressed immune systems like the elderly are likely to take a hit from this significantly. That's what most people are concerned about. Sorry that I'm on a tangent. Sports players, though, probably have good immune systems, so they should be able to overcome the virus.
 

hatterson

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Apr 12, 2010
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North Tonawanda, NY
The vaccine currently on trial started yesterday and it's a year long trial.

We're 12-18 months, minimum, out from having a vaccine that's ready for broad public use.
 

Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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The vaccine currently on trial started yesterday and it's a year long trial.

We're 12-18 months, minimum, out from having a vaccine that's ready for broad public use.

Don't want to be overly optimistic, but as argued before I am pretty sure the Chinese will accelerate that process quite significantly.

One of the reasons it takes so long is because "we" are more careful in the "west" when it comes to side-effects etc. than the Chinese.

And I don't want to be disrespectful to the Chinese. I used to live there and loved it - partly because of the people. No getting around they see both animals and humans more "expendable" for the "greater good" than most western countries though.
 

BKIslandersFan

F*** off
Sep 29, 2017
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When they feel comfortable/Corona is under control? I can tell you society can’t be shut down for months at a time without total economic collapse. People judge others for the outlook that this is relatively harmless to most people but shutting down society affects a lot more people than Corona ever will, and many of them will never recover. It’s a difficult situation for everyone, but at a certain point the decision will be made that the curve has been flattened enough to restart.
Sure, if the curve neatly flattens by May then maybe they can get the season in. But if it goes on until July or August the season can’t be restarted.
 

Live in the Now

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Dec 17, 2005
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Sure, if the curve neatly flattens by May then maybe they can get the season in. But if it goes on until July or August the season can’t be restarted.

UEFA just made a deal with clubs to ensure the season will be finished. Even after June. There is language in the deal pertaining to if the season hasn't finished by then, saying that the European competitions will be altered in that event.
 

JeffreyLFC

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Sep 29, 2017
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I do believe the season will resume at some point. I would expect a more condensed schedule with possibly 2 or 3 games per week.
Worst case scenario in around august
 

BKIslandersFan

F*** off
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UEFA just made a deal with clubs to ensure the season will be finished. Even after June. There is language in the deal pertaining to if the season hasn't finished by then, saying that the European competitions will be altered in that event.
If pandemic keeps up until summer, its nothing but empty words.
 

Live in the Now

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If pandemic keeps up until summer, its nothing but empty words.

Except they just made a deal about that. I know you don't want the season to finish because West Ham will get relegated, but it's going to finish. They'll play the games every two or three days if they have to.
 

BKIslandersFan

F*** off
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Except they just made a deal about that. I know you don't want the season to finish because West Ham will get relegated, but it's going to finish. They'll play the games every two or three days if they have to.
I. Don't. Care. About. That.

Not everyone is all about themselves in these times.

Logically it makes no sense considering they don't know WHEN the peak will come. Are they gonna be out here playing during the peak?
 

Live in the Now

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Dec 17, 2005
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I. Don't. Care. About. That.

Not everyone is all about themselves in these times.

Logically it makes no sense considering they don't know WHEN the peak will come. Are they gonna be out here playing during the peak?

I don't know why it would surprise you if they were, considering UEFA sent Valencia to play Atalanta with everyone knowing they would get infected. UEFA and the teams have clearly taken steps to let everyone know they want the money from this season. Before the next season starts they'll finish this one.
 

BKIslandersFan

F*** off
Sep 29, 2017
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I don't know why it would surprise you if they were, considering UEFA sent Valencia to play Atalanta with everyone knowing they would get infected. UEFA and the teams have clearly taken steps to let everyone know they want the money from this season. Before the next season starts they'll finish this one.
I don't think even UEFA are that reckless.
 
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