Premier League 2018-2019 Part II

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
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La Plata, Maryland
I mean, in balancing the books, 10 million could make a massive difference between being able to sign a player or two, or having to let some go for a club like Burnley.

They have a motivation to play, but I don't know that it's likely.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
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Yes, obviously they don't.
Does that mean they should let themselves beat because, what the heck, they don't NEED a result more than others?
...and who said that? You're looking to argue and lash out just for the sake of it, probably because of the Pogba stuff. Relax.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
62,185
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Huh, what? Pogba? Because you made a comparison with M. 8 goals Depay??? :laugh: :biglaugh:

No, your point about Burnley that don't play for anything is another golden post of yours.
Every team will want to grab one place because a lot of money is involved. That's football 101.
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
45,300
9,465
I thought you were just talking about changing narratives to suit arguments. I'm sure you never take the same stance with Ronaldo for example. Goals are not the be all end all. He's been outplayed by multiple players on his title winning team. Not anything to be ashamed about; he's had a great season and is a great player.

Multiple players? LOL

no goals are not the only criteria but Kun is an all around forward. Much more so than Sterling too.

No one has said they'll roll over and die.

Teams have been rolling over for city since week 1 though.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Huh, what? Pogba? Because you made a comparison with M. 8 goals Depay??? :laugh: :biglaugh:

Yeah, I didn't compare them.

No, your point about Burnley that don't play for anything is another golden post of yours.
Every team will want to grab one place because a lot of money is involved. That's football 101.
I also never said that Burnley had nothing to play for.

So again, yes you're obviously having one of your childish fits. It's too bad because when you're not being petty/childish/trolling you're fine to talk to about footy.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
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Why does Burnley need a result? They're 9 points up on Cardiff and have half their GD.

Burnley don't need a result, but I think the notion of stripping the title from City's hands would suit the self-image of the Clarets' players and fans alike.

While I'm expecting a City win, if they're unable to blast the Clarets out of the water early the longer the game goes on the more nerves may come in to play, and just one error or slackly-defended set-piece might cost them dear.

Unless all Burnley's players stand aside in a guard of honour and allow City to toddle down the field and score at will, thus fulfilling their duties as part of The Sworn Grand Alliance to Ruin the Happiness of Liverpool, obviously.
 
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Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
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Burnley almost always shows up to play, so you can probably count on a good effort from them.
 

Savant

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With Liverpool's win over Huddersfield yesterday, Jurgen Klopp's side now has a higher point total in the Premier League than ANY team managed Alex Ferguson.
 
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hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
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With Liverpool's win over Huddersfield yesterday, Jurgen Klopp's side now has a higher point total in the Premier League than ANY team managed Alex Ferguson.

United had seasons of 91 and 92 points under Ferguson, so not yet.

They’ll inevitably get there though.

This will be either the second or third highest points total in a season eclipsed only by City last year and possibly City this year.

Edit: I guess the 92 was before the PL, but either way, they have 91 now and United had 91 in 2000
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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It's pretty crazy that Liverpool and City of this season are likely the two best teams in PL history.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
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United had seasons of 91 and 92 points under Ferguson, so not yet.

They’ll inevitably get there though.

This will be either the second or third highest points total in a season eclipsed only by City last year and possibly City this year.

Edit: I guess the 92 was before the PL, but either way, they have 91 now and United had 91 in 2000

It was the 93-94 season (the Premier League's second) when the Evil Empire finished with 92 points. Mind, their league campaign lasted 42 games.

That team seemed fantastic and nigh-on unstoppable. Incredible to reflect that Ferguson went on to build two other teams that were even better.
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
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It's pretty crazy that Liverpool and City of this season are likely the two best teams in PL history.

I was just thinking about this actually... tough to gauge that, really. Points aren't everything, imo.

How would the 07/08 United team do in this current Premier League, for example? Impossible to know, but I wouldn't count them out. Would they be 3rd? Would it be by a wide margin? I'm not so sure it would be.

Obviously, Arsenal supporters will point to the Invincibles too.

Outside of Spurs, and obviously City/Liverpool, I don't think the rest of the big 6 are remotely as good as they used to be. It's tough for me to really know how good they are when United, Chelsea, and Arsenal are in such shambles.

I guess the counter to that would be the Premier League is stronger as a whole than it's ever been top to bottom. Which might be a valid point, although I don't necessarily believe wealth equals quality. There's still some dire sides in England at the moment. And although there are bigger names on the minnows, I think a lot of clubs lack an identity.

Would Marco Silva's Everton beat David Moyes'? I dunno. You could argue they're more talented for sure and certaintly more expensive, but are they actually a better team?

Interesting thought experiment, though. Not sure there's a simple answer. Maybe nostalgia is just playing tricks on me.
 
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Stray Wasp

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I was just thinking about this actually... tough to gauge that, really. Points aren't everything, imo.

How would the 07/08 United team do in this current Premier League, for example? Impossible to know, but I wouldn't count them out. Would they be 3rd? Would it be by a wide margin? I'm not so sure it would be.

Obviously, Arsenal supporters will point to the Invincibles too.

Outside of Spurs, and obviously City/Liverpool, I don't think the rest of the big 6 are remotely as good as they used to be. It's tough for me to really know how good they are when United, Chelsea, and Arsenal are in such shambles.

I guess the counter to that would be the Premier League is stronger as a whole than it's ever been top to bottom. Which might be a valid point, although I don't necessarily believe wealth equals quality. There's still some dire sides in England at the moment. And although there are bigger names on the minnows, I think a lot of clubs lack an entity.

Would Marco Silva's Everton beat David Moyes'? I dunno. You could argue they're more talented for sure and certaintly more expensive, but are they actually a better team?

Interesting thought experiment, though. Not sure there's a simple answer. Maybe nostalgia is just playing tricks on me.

Regarding the bolded part, I most definitely agree. As I've remarked before, I believe the quality of coach now being attracted by the EPL is higher than back then, however the greater wealth available has only exacerbated the age-old tendency of badly-run clubs going berserk with their chequebooks, and landing said coaches with haphazardly assembled squads.

The Silva Everton v Moyes Everton is an intriguing comparison - after all, each team suffered the same weakness in its own era: a lack of high-end quality. Sigurdsson and Cahill play slightly different styles, but they're roughly the same level (annoying as he was, I rate Cahill higher). Meanwhile, though Yakubu and Richarlison were effective for their respective Evertons, I'm unsure how each would have adapted to the other's - whether the Nigerian's overall game would have satisfied Silva, or that Sir David would have been able to bear Richarlison's inconsistencies. (Mind, the 07-08 Arteta would surely enhance contemporary Everton).

If you have nostalgia about the 2007-8 Manchester United, then the same condition afflicts me. But I'm as confident that team would be challenging for the title in this era as I am in stating that were a 23-year old Cristiano Ronaldo playing today, he'd score bagfuls of goals against EPL defences.

In 2007-08 Mike Ashley was running Newcastle badly, surrounded by sycophants telling him how clever he was, and inclined to distrust a good appointment with money because of a bad appointment's errors. The more things change...
 

hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
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One thing I find weird is that most people agree the bottom half of the table is better, relative, than it used to be. They also believe most of the top 4 are shells of their former selves.

But yet United could easily finish this season with 70 points and finish 5 points back of 5th place. 75 points might not make the top 6 this year.

The last ~3 years the top 6 have really separated themselves from the rest of the league.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
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See I don't agree that the top of the league is weaker than it used to be. I look back on the Rafa days vs. now and it's not particularly close (Liverpool of last season and this season compared to prime Rafa years).

Football in general has really evolved over the last decade.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
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South east London
One thing I find weird is that most people agree the bottom half of the table is better, relative, than it used to be. They also believe most of the top 4 are shells of their former selves.

But yet United could easily finish this season with 70 points and finish 5 points back of 5th place. 75 points might not make the top 6 this year.

The last ~3 years the top 6 have really separated themselves from the rest of the league.

I think that since Chelsea need to visit Old Trafford, 73 points would be the maximum available total for the team finishing 6th. Which is still very impressive, obviously.

Mind in 2014-15, that is to say one TV deal back, (which as you know translates to all an awful lot of £), Everton finished fifth with a 72-point campaign, and Spurs sixth on 69.

Expectations play a factor in perceptions here - as rightly they should. Martinez's Everton, whose net spend that season was less than zero, were justly praised for their finish. But there was a sense of anticlimax over Spurs, as they were felt to have used the Bale fee erratically. To say nothing of their ending the season under Tim Sherwood's throwback charge.

The amount of money washing around both within the league itself and in comparison to other leagues makes a difference too. Everton's highest fee that season was £13 million. Spurs spent £17 million on Paulinho, £26 million on Soldado and £30 million on Lamela.

Contrast those sums with the money spent by Arsenal (whose strikeforce alone cost £100 million), Chelsea and the Fallen Empire. It would be a perverse triumph if such fees weren't leading to a big gap developing between the top clubs and such as Watford - a club for whom 32 year old Crystal Palace discard Adrian Mariappa and 30 year old Craig Cathcart have started 49 games at the heart of the defence.

Indeed, it's in defence where you see an awful lot of people still able to play regularly in the Premier League whose longevity surprises. Ex Football League stalwart Wes Morgan (who played every single minute of Leicester's title-winning season) has started the majority of their games again in his age 34-35 season. Even five years ago, such a prediction would have raised eyebrows.

The game has indeed changed, and perhaps the tendency towards screening defences with two central midfielders, and the emphasis on coaching to prevent spaces appearing between the lines, means more than ever it's imperative a defender reads the game - because if they don't anyone who can run past them quickly without losing control of the ball is away. So more than ever, coaches will trust experienced journeymen with limited passing skills to shore up their back line. But that limits a team's attacking potential - as does the need to have defensively responsible central midfielders. And without a striker who holds the ball up you won't enjoy any relief from defending. And without wide players possessed of pace your counter attacks will wither on the vine. All of which means a stereotyped, risk-averse style of play can become entrenched. That in itself limits a team's potential. Unless for a pittance you somehow land the very best player in the league at arguably the most important single position in a team, as happened when Kante pitched up at Leicester.

Plenty teams outside the top six were pretty stereotyped and risk-averse in 2007-8. Again, the difference is how many £10 million + signings such teams now contain.

Leicester's title win notwithstanding, the top six has been entrenched ever since those lovely, beautiful, kind benefactors of humanity who are a model for all us dirty, lesser beings walked through the door at Manchester City. And we return to the cheerful fact that the league's financial structure is set up so that every single season the top clubs edge further away from the rest.

Now consider the clubs whose support bases put them notionally in the best position to challenge the biggest clubs on a semi-consistent basis.

For the period 2009-2014, Everton's net spend was below nothing. In 2014-15, £30 million of the £36 million they spent was to make permanent two loan signings from the previous season. By the time the purse strings were genuinely opened in 2015, they were lagging well behind - and their ground capacity is smaller than all of the big six, so they can't even negate the widening TV cash gap a little through gate receipts.

Randy Lerner decided Villa should forget about challenging the big guns in 2010, and sent them into a decline from which they only now show the merest signs of recovering.

West Ham's only period of stability during the last decade came at the cost of crashing their heads against the glass ceiling imposed by Sam Allardyce demanding they never play football. Any hint of success the club enjoys occurs in spite of the owners, who are shabby fools.

When it was in the Premier League, sunderland's utter lack of pride was underscored by a total want of coherence in the club's running.

Newcastle United's owner actively demands the club avoid qualifying for the Europa League or having cup run. Predictably, only once did they by accident trouble the top six.

Leeds United hasn't even managed to negotiate the Championship.

Meanwhile, there are fewer and fewer continental European clubs with the financial muscle to go head-to-head against the English. In theory, that should mean that with each new TV deal widening the economic gap, competing on multiple fronts should tax EPL clubs ever less.

Wolves' relative success this season illustrates that if a club emerges from the Championship with money and a purposefully-directed plan that goes beyond '17th is a triumph', then the reputed gap between the second tier and the top flight is nowhere near as great as it's cracked up to be. (Yes Fulham came up and were are awful, but review how many of their promotion team were loanees - they had to cobble together pretty much a new team over one summer, a job of which they made a botch. Cardiff are managed by Neil Warnock, and therefore cannot be judged as though they have anything to do with modern top flight English football. And as for Huddersfield, you need only recall how they practically stumbled into promotion by default at the end of 2016-17 to understand they were never going to last long, particularly once, rather than accept their term had come to its natural course, they pointlessly fired Wagner).

What does for non top-six clubs is sustainability. Kante was Leicester's system, and his initial replacement, Mendy, simpy wasn't EPL ready. Ndidi has fared rather better without reaching Kante's heights, but after he'd been at Leicester six months Drinkwater left, so yet another midfield partnership needed to be forged. Again, the designated replacement, Iborra, didn't work out.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Also Robertson now has tied the record for most assists by a defender ever in a PL season.

Wouldn't be surprised if he broke it.
 

Elliman

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
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Two games to play. Something besides the City/Liverpool games to watch. Exciting stuff.

3. Spurs 70 (Bournemouth, Everton)
4. Chelsea 68 (Watford, Leicester)
5. Arsenal 66 (Brighton, Burnley)
6. United 65 (Huddersfield, Cardiff)
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,281
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California
Two games to play. Something besides the City/Liverpool games to watch. Exciting stuff.

3. Spurs 70 (Bournemouth, Everton)
4. Chelsea 68 (Watford, Leicester)
5. Arsenal 66 (Brighton, Burnley)
6. United 65 (Huddersfield, Cardiff)
So basically United need to win out and hope Chelsea and Arsenal drop points.
 

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