Post-Game Talk: Prelude to a Rental: The Aftermath of the Stadium Series Debacle

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

I hate the Broncos and their fans. Am I doing this right?!?!?

(Seriously, I do though)

I'll echo TMV's sentiments. Disappointing finish to a great weekend experience. I had an absolute blast. Hopefully they come out strong Tuesday in a game that matters even more than last night.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, you may not be "ripping through stats", but you're sure as hell exaggerating a lot here.

You can't statistically say "the best goalies save fluke goals more often than not", because there's no way to prove that. I mean, as an Avs fan, we were treated (too much) to replays of Roy's "Statue of Liberty" gaffe, that resulted in what I'd call a "fluke goal" for the RW in that series. And that was the best (or "most clutch") goalie to ever play in the NHL (my opinion).

The point is THEY HAPPEN. Yet you're going beyond to make it seem like it happens to Varlamov exponentially more than any other goaltender.

I'm pissed off at the result last night too, but I'm not the one making statements like you are. You're not just questioning Varlamov, you're basically ignoring all the good he's done for this team (including this season), and it seems shortsighted.

You're absolutely right, I can't prove any of what I'm saying statistically. There might be some exaggeration there, but I'm trying not to go over the top with something that is very difficult to quantify on a stat sheet.

No one expects you to make statements like I am either, and it's not shortsighted to look back at a body of work and see inconsistency. Not questioning something because of a different sample and results at a different time is nothing more than sticking your head in the sand.

Also, you can absolutely question a players consistency in certain situations without ignoring all of the good hes done. Do I have to mention one of his shutouts every time I bring up a game he let in four or five goals? I really hate when people get bent out of shape because the specific topic about a generally good player is negative or uncomfortable. It's like, you can't discuss this bad thing because look at this, this, and this good thing.

I'm not even hoping to be right, it's more of a fear. There is enough there to create some doubt IMO.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

Don't put words in my mouth GTG

Being frustrated with Varly's inconsistency in some situations is a legit discussion.

No it's not. Varlamov is one of the better goalies in the league playing infront of a team that has ZERO idea how to play with a lead. Our defense is nothing special either to be honest. The future is bright but since Varlamov arrived it's been ... Bad.

This whole "choking in big games" is garbage as well. Want choking? Watch our entire team embarrass themselves in the playoffs when we stepped foot in Minnesota's arena. That's choking.

 

[CobraAcesS]

No it's not. Varlamov is one of the better goalies in the league playing infront of a team that has ZERO idea how to play with a lead. Our defense is nothing special either to be honest. The future is bright but since Varlamov arrived it's been ... Bad.

This whole "choking in big games" is garbage as well. Want choking? Watch our entire team embarrass themselves in the playoffs when we stepped foot in Minnesota's arena. That's choking.

Absolutely hope your right, Varly, EJ, Barrie, and our core in general needs to be better as a whole.

I'm not alone in this fear either, there was a few comments wondering how Varly would play in this game based on his previous game. He didn't quiet those doubts IMO.

 

[tigervixxxen]

That is not the point these posters are trying to make.
It's not losing.
It's losing in a pathetic fashion in front of 50k fans, and gives the casuals fans a lot of reasons not to come to the can. That again leads to away fans continuing being louder than home fans at the Pepsi Center and half-filled arenas.
This was the opportune moment to show Coloradans to come and watch and cheer for the playoff push. And the team gave us, well, that pile of dung.

I'm fine, and most here are fine if they lose, but show urgency, passion and will to win.
To lose like that is completely unacceptable. Especially after that good 1st period.

Good thing is nobody could tell HOW they were playing. The game was close, that's really what the crowd felt. Sure would have been nice to get that feel good win in everyone's memory but a blowout would have been worse for the casuals.

The only real issues that I've had with the Avs' vet signings has been with length of term and then dollars. Namely, Stuart, Iginla and Tanguay. Beauchemin was an exception in that the Avs needed a capable top 2 d-man. One could make the same argument about Stuart but that was a failure to properly evaluate and assess his remaining playing ability and skills.

On a side note, I was also disappointed the Avs lost but far more so by the boo birds that came out afterwards. Yes this one stung but the criticism and hysteria was just over the top.

It was still a fun time at this game as well.

We didn't sign Tanguay. If you want a UFA you have to give term or else they won't agree to sign. The whole Stuart thing is probably the worst thing they've done but they were desperate for defense so to that extent I get.

Absolutely hope your right, Varly, EJ, Barrie, and our core in general needs to be better as a whole.

I'm not alone in this fear either, there was a few comments wondering how Varly would play in this game based on his previous game. He didn't quiet those doubts IMO.

It also had been a week, we know Varly is better when he gets in a rhythm. As Freud said trying to give the puck away all period they were just asking for it too. There was one bad play that cost the game but it could have happened many times over.

And yes it's all up to the core if they want to take the next step or not. There's only so much insulating one can do. At some point they have to either sink or swim.

 

[flyfysher]

Absolutely hope your right, Varly, EJ, Barrie, and our core in general needs to be better as a whole.

I'm not alone in this fear either, there was a few comments wondering how Varly would play in this game based on his previous game. He didn't quiet those doubts IMO.

So . . . what would you do about it? Put Pickard in? Honestly, some fans act like Pickard is the next Jesus Christ. Pickard is good but he has a limited body of work.

 

[flyfysher]

We didn't sign Tanguay. If you want a UFA you have to give term or else they won't agree to sign. The whole Stuart thing is probably the worst thing they've done but they were desperate for defense so to that extent I get.

My bad, I was thinking of Tanguay's term.

 

[Tweaky]

Finally got a chance to watch this one. I put the game on two people. Barrie and Varlamov. Barrie was on the ice for all 5 goals against, and directly responsible for poorly playing at least 2 of them. Varly made some saves, but allowed a couple he should not have (a .852 sv% is gonna have at least one bad one).

Tatar goal, Barrie should have boxed out Nyquist to allow for more time to clear and to not screen Varly...but given the horrible luck of the bounce to Tatar, not counting this as one of the two. Varly is off the hook due to the bounce and the screen on this one.

The Nyquist goal on the other hand....so weak by Barrie allowing him to get that shot off so easily. Varly should have been on his feet, no reason for him to be down that whole time...but Barrie has to tie that stick up, or knock him down. Split the blame for this one.

Abdelkader's goal is all on Barrie...tie up the stick, box him out, whatever...play some kind of defense there. An in close redirect, hard for any goalie to seal every little hole in that situation.

Richards' goal: Barrie gets beats out of the corner to allow Richards the easy rebound attempt. Varly giving up a rebound straight to Richards' stick puts this squarely on him as well. At least he got a piece of the shot, but not enough to keep it from fluttering over him into the twine. But Landy with the pass to Kronwall is the main culprit.

Not really going to put the ENG on anyone. Maybe Duchene for losing the faceoff, but nobody is gong to win every one.

I read in the GDT that folks were blaming Tanguay for the turnover leading to Richards goal. Then once it was determined that it was Landy, some were wishing it was Tanguay so Roy would come to his senses. That is my point in defending him around here. I do not claim that he is anywhere near the player he was, not even 3 years ago. But people are seeing him as worse than he truly is, because they are looking for him to be that horribad old guy....because old guy is in the way of new guy, and this is Hockey's Future. Observational bias in effect. I will agree that he has no place on the roster next year...even more slowing down, and Rants better be top6 to start IMO. But tonight, he was 9th of forwards for TOI (and Iggy was 8th). Tangs was team best CF/60, CorsiDiff, and individual high danger scoring chances (iHSC). As much as folks may want to believe, Tanguay was not the issue this game. And that being said...I am done with my ranting about Tanguay or any other goat of the week/month/season. I know I cannot get through to the worst offenders, and I fully understand the feelings of those that only rarley fall victim to this type of thing. So no more about it from me.


I would like to see a bit more fire from the guys. Not so much the chippy, borderline cheap kind of play, more like the will to win that I know they have...we have Stanley Cup winners, Memorial Cup winners, Olympic Gold winners...we have guys with that will, but they do not play like it entirely too often. But mainly I would like to see them play without mercy. There is no shame in running the score up against teams. Yet they play like they feel bad if they win by more than one. I know they don't actually feel that way, but they play like it. They play prevent once they get a lead, and the longer they do it, the less likely it is to work. Play the game that got you a lead, bury a few more goals...then play prevent with a 4 goal lead. Nothing wrong or unsportsmanlike with a 3 goal win.

 

[CobraAcesS]

So . . . what would you do about it? Put Pickard in? Honestly, some fans act like Pickard is the next Jesus Christ. Pickard is good but he has a limited body of work.

You have a point, we're committed to Varly long term. However if he does not step it up down the stretch here, do you keep playing him and allow him to play through it while we lose games. Or do you start Pickard more often?

Long term it might be better to stick with Varly regardless, short term it could be painful.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You have a point, we're committed to Varly long term. However if he does not step it up down the stretch here, do you keep playing him and allow him to play through it while we lose games. Or do you start Pickard more often?

Long term it might be better to stick with Varly regardless, short term it could be painful.

They can't take it away from Varly, he gives the team the best chance to win. They might watch it a bit more and not ride Varly into the ground but it's good to have an option. Like I said you can't fully judge him having a week off and playing in odd conditions, you can't not make him the starter just because of that.

Rants better be top6 to start IMO.

This is why he should be here now. Get some NHL time under his belt, see what he can do. Better going into next year knowing he's top 6 or not.

 

[Shaggy88]

A nights sleep has left me with this conclusion: Tuesday will just be even more of a big game, and hopefully even more entertaining.

I had fun watching this weekend unfold, aside from that hilariously goofy JR segment that left me scratching my head. It's time to move on to the next one.

 

[LazRNN]

I've also calmed down. Last minute losses are always frustrating, and the Avs play at home continues to frustrate, but the remaining games against Minnesota and Nashville are more important. It's still lame to call out the fans though. Fan support is basically a mirror reflection of how a team is performing. Always has been, always will be.

 

[5280]

I was able to make it to last nights game. Even though the end result was a huge disappointment, it was a fun event and great experience.

I thought they played well early. Penalties really killed their rhythm. McCleod should just play without a stick. It wouldn't change his game at all. His stick only gets penalties. He can't shoot, pass, or stick handle so if Roy wants him out there he should just send him out without a stick to run around hitting.

They also seemed very sloppy in the neutral zone. They failed to get the puck in deep and had turnovers that kept them from getting into the offensive zone to set up their attack. When the puck actually made it into the zone the forecheck and offensive pressure seemed decent.

Obviously Varly didn't have a strong performance. I haven't had a chance to rewatch the TV broadcast but most of those goals seemed fairly weak.

I would like to see them make a move before the deadline but I hope they don't have a knee-jerk reaction and pick up a rental. Buying rentals=bad , selling rentals= good.

I noticed the neutral zone stuff too, and it was kind of frustrating.

About the game- I held my tongue as much as possible after the game because I was pretty upset.

A couple of things- I do believe that the concerns are valid in that Varly might not be a good" big game " goalie. He doesn't have the longest track record but one is there IMO. Doesn't mean he's not a rock star goalie for the most part, and doesn't mean we can't go places with him in net, not every goalie is PFR.

Also about Duchene, not going to beat my dead horse and he has definitely shown improvement in my eyes this year in that he seems to be contributing more when he's not necessarily " on ", but like others have said - where on earth was he last night?

Also, What is wrong with EJ? Maybe he is still injured or maybe just played better for Torigny, but he needs to get his head out of his ass.

The most concerning thing to me, though, is the fact that it looked to me like the Red Wings really just wanted this game more, at least in the third period. That is what I can't find an excuse for and it seems to me that is has been the same for a long time in general. So I understand the frustration
In this thread.

Also, like others have said, it's going to be how we rebound against the Wild that tells the tale, because we have been playing better as of late.

 

[katfude]

The outcome of this game didn't hit me as hard as some of you.

It's probably because of the alumni game, and the fact that I got to meet Larry Murphy, Jeremy Roenick and Adam Foote before the game too!

JR is much better in person and Foote, well, I'm still riding the happy feels from meeting him.

The blowing snownados were hilarious too.

As far as the game went, it's is pretty apparent Barrie has some serious D to work on, but to be fair, he's always paired with a bottom 6 d-man so that's not helping him learn. Should help us get a lower number on his contract so that's a positive!

Very glad Berra has been waived. This is clearly a message to Varly to feel the competition for his job heating up. Think he's too comfortable with all this. Pickard seems to have more competitive fire in him.

Beauchemin was pretty darn bad in this game as well but I'll forgive it because he's been a work horse this year.

Here's to not getting embarrassed by the Wild!

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Wait so can a bottom 6D and a #1D be the same thing?

 

[katfude]

Holden is a number 1D?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Holden is a number 1D?

You said Barrie's been paired with a bottom 6 defenseman. Considering there are only 6 d on the ice every game I guess that makes every D a bottom 6 defenseman. It was a joke about your termanology. I promise you I think Holden sucks lol.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Meh im over it. Im glad we are playing meaningful games this late in the season. I just saw who we are playing next so im getting my body ready for that.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

Absolutely hope your right, Varly, EJ, Barrie, and our core in general needs to be better as a whole.

I'm not alone in this fear either, there was a few comments wondering how Varly would play in this game based on his previous game. He didn't quiet those doubts IMO.

Fair enough and I do agree with you. Everyone could be doing a bit better this year minus that beauty in the AHL. With that being said, battling for a playoff spot is what we expected.

When Varly is rolling he's one of the best. I know a lot of fans say the same for their respective teams goalie but we've seen him be a wall for significant lengths. He needs to turn it on starting this Tuesday in the biggest game of the season thus far. He's ready.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Just saw the game and a better dman more aggressive than Barrie would've probably stopped two of those goals (the Nyqvuist and Abdelkader ones). That guy just isn't very good without the puck and shouldn't be playing that many minutes 5 v 5 but our defence sucks and is marginally better than it was 5 years ago which is pretty inexcusable for a rebuild. Friggy Pracy. Usual story rest of the game, collapsing down low and three forwards inexplicably close together in the slot rather than being spread out while the other team has posession in our zone allowing them to set up, and terrible zone entries.


Also, don't think I'll be watching anymore outdoor games, they used to be fine but since they started using this new camera angle all the time it's gotten awful, the thing makes me dizzy. Didn't help having to sit through the NBC broadcast crew, can't wait for Doc to retire.

 

[IceRat]

Finally got a chance to watch this one. I put the game on two people. Barrie and Varlamov.

absolutely, but as much as one can fault Barrie for his D play if it wasn't for his O play we wouldn't have been in a position to win ... last line of D should be our goalie and he was awful on most all the goals

I read in the GDT that folks were blaming Tanguay for the turnover leading to Richards goal. Then once it was determined that it was Landy, some were wishing it was Tanguay so Roy would come to his senses.

I have rightfully ragged on Tanguay as much as anyone but like you said in no way was he the issue in this game. He should have instead been playing in the Alumni game but he was keeping up last night and actually pressing the pace more than our younger stars were

I would like to see a bit more fire from the guys. Not so much the chippy, borderline cheap kind of play, more like the will to win that I know they have...we have Stanley Cup winners, Memorial Cup winners, Olympic Gold winners...we have guys with that will, but they do not play like it entirely too often. But mainly I would like to see them play without mercy. There is no shame in running the score up against teams. Yet they play like they feel bad if they win by more than one. I know they don't actually feel that way, but they play like it. They play prevent once they get a lead, and the longer they do it, the less likely it is to work. Play the game that got you a lead, bury a few more goals...then play prevent with a 4 goal lead. Nothing wrong or unsportsmanlike with a 3 goal win.

and this ultimately is our problem .... I'm no Shanahan fan but you could tell and hear how much he hated to lose the Alumni game ... I don't see or hear any of that hate for losing from our current team

even worse this team was restructured to make us better than last season (which was not a difficult task considering) when in fact we should have been made better than the year before (and I don't buy any of that overachieved BS)

 

[McMetal]

absolutely, but as much as one can fault Barrie for his D play if it wasn't for his O play we wouldn't have been in a position to win ... last line of D should be our goalie and he was awful on most all the goals


I have rightfully ragged on Tanguay as much as anyone but like you said in no way was he the issue in this game. He should have instead been playing in the Alumni game but he was keeping up last night and actually pressing the pace more than our younger stars were



and this ultimately is our problem .... I'm no Shanahan fan but you could tell and hear how much he hated to lose the Alumni game ... I don't see or hear any of that hate for losing from our current team

even worse this team was restructured to make us better than last season (which was not a difficult task considering) when in fact we should have been made better than the year before (and I don't buy any of that overachieved BS)

We're in a playoff spot though, so we are objectively better. Maybe not every night, but we were out looking in this time last year, that counts for something.

 

[Mules]

We're in a playoff spot though, so we are objectively better. Maybe not every night, but we were out looking in this time last year, that counts for something.

Come to think of it, Roy had brought us close to playoff in the three years he is here. Once we made it as division leader. Last year was pretty close. This year, we are still on it.

I think only Blackhawks and Penguins who had steep learning curve to Championship. The rest of the teams just have to struggle and keep learning. Maybe next year they will learn NOT to have slow start

 

[Boulder Avalanche]

If we did not have such a slow start things would be much different. I applaud our guys for digging out of such a deep hole while having to carry players like Tanguay Holden (the past month or two especially), and Martensien.

 

[Avsboy]

Come to think of it, Roy had brought us close to playoff in the three years he is here. Once we made it as division leader. Last year was pretty close. This year, we are still on it.

#FireRoy