Pre-GDT - Opening Night. Red Wings @ Predators. Saturday

[MBH]

I thought Svechnikov was really close to playing his way on the team. I think they probably want him to go down and score some goals in the AHL though because those are going to be hard for anyone not playing first line/first PP in Detroit to come by this year. If he was a young guy on a decent team with someone for him to play with he probably woulda made it

I don't know man. Are you saying Detroit's so bad young kids can't make it?
I don't have a problem with Svech playing along side either Flip or Nielsen.

But Blashill... well he's gotta know his job is on the line and he better play the guys his new GM got him. So Erne looks like one of those guys.
And Blashill... well, he's gonna get Glendening his minutes, too.

Lot's of competing circumstances for a top 9 job in Detroit right now, even as bad as this team is.

 

[newfy]

I don't know man. Are you saying Detroit's so bad young kids can't make it?
I don't have a problem with Svech playing along side either Flip or Nielsen.

But Blashill... well he's gotta know his job is on the line and he better play the guys his new GM got him. So Erne looks like one of those guys.
And Blashill... well, he's gonna get Glendening his minutes, too.

Lot's of competing circumstances for a top 9 job in Detroit right now, even as bad as this team is.

I think that with him missing an entire year and low on confidence theyre probably thinking, this is going to be the absolute worst season the wings have had in years so lets let him gain some confidence in the AHL. I'm not sure I want Svech's return to hockey being with guys like Glendening unable to create any offense with him. Its a great way to turn Svech into a grinder

 

[Kingpin794]

I think Svechnikov in the AHL could be the worst thing for him.
He took a major step back in the AHL in his sophomore year but when he came up to the NHL he looked better than he did the previous year.
And by starting a 23-year-old there now, if he doesn't fit right there and struggles, you might lose any and all value in him.
If you start him in the NHL and give him 20-30 games, if he struggles, you can send him down or bench him or whatever. It's no big deal for a rookie to struggle in the NHL. It;s a big deal for a 23-year-old to struggle in the A. And if he does, that puts him behind the eight-ball and might cause him to press - and struggle more.
He's at a critical point in his development.
Not just because of where he is, but because there are other wingers in the organization who could leap past him in the depth charts and there are only so many spots to go around.
Notice, for example, there are ZERO Red Wing forward UFAs after this season.

Svech starting on the Wings would be fitting a sqaure peg in a round hole when you got a carver on hand.

It's not IF he'll struggle in the NHL right now, he will.

You're setting him up for failure if you start him on that trash heap of a team this year which is something you really don't want to do if you truly believe this season is as important as it is for him.

 

[Tasteslikekevinbacon]

I declare Tankrupcy!

 

[DatsDeking]

I'll be making the trip to Nashville for this one so I'm really happy Larkin is playing.

Never been to a Wings game as a visiting fan so it should be interesting. I'll be wearing the winged wheel proud!

Enjoy!! I went to a playoff game there waaaaay back when we were in the Central. Nice barn, great town to grab a bite or drink in. Crowd might chirp you a bit, but nothing awful.

 

[deca guard]

I don't know man. Are you saying Detroit's so bad young kids can't make it?
I don't have a problem with Svech playing along side either Flip or Nielsen.

But Blashill... well he's gotta know his job is on the line and he better play the guys his new GM got him. So Erne looks like one of those guys.
And Blashill... well, he's gonna get Glendening his minutes, too.

Lot's of competing circumstances for a top 9 job in Detroit right now, even as bad as this team is.

how about the reason svetch in gr is to do some more conditioning / testing coming back from surgery before he deals with the big boys ? and do you really think blash such a tiny being hes playing erne because hes worried aboutkeeping his job ? how about giving blash some respect and seeing it as hes doing whats best for the team and players before making him out to be a clown with nothing but a wild guess .

 

[MBH]

how about the reason svetch in gr is to do some more conditioning / testing coming back from surgery before he deals with the big boys ? and do you really think blash such a tiny being hes playing erne because hes worried aboutkeeping his job ? how about giving blash some respect and seeing it as hes doing whats best for the team and players before making him out to be a clown with nothing but a wild guess .

You better believe Blashill is worried about his job.
There's no guarantee he's coming back to the NHL, with first class accommodations and a nice big salary.

 

[MBH]

Svech starting on the Wings would be fitting a sqaure peg in a round hole when you got a carver on hand.

It's not IF he'll struggle in the NHL right now, he will.

You're setting him up for failure if you start him on that trash heap of a team this year which is something you really don't want to do if you truly believe this season is as important as it is for him.

Based on what?
Based on his last call up?

Because his last time here he played 14 games.
At 5 on 5 he averaged 1.96 points/60 (top six type numbers) and had a 50 CF% (respectable on Detroit) and a 50GF% (respectable on Detroit.)

Or did you mean something more recent?
Like when he led the Red Wings in pre-season points with 4... in about half the minutes it took Hirose to get 5?

All Svech has to do to be worth it in Detroit for me is work the walls, work the front of the nets and start to get comfortable using his skill.
On that alone, I'm good with him in our top 9.

This guy is 23. Not 19.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You better believe Blashill is worried about his job.
There's no guarantee he's coming back to the NHL, with first class accommodations and a nice big salary.

And I’m not guaranteed to wake up in the morning. At this point, Blashill is still probably being judged for his ability to extract growth out of the younger players as they start to rotate into the lineup. Yzerman did not give him a contender this year, and he’s not going to judge Blashill heavily on making chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Honestly, I would not be shocked if Yzerman has already decided on Blashill getting the next two years to justify an extension just because eventually they are going to get this youth movement in full force. Now if he mismanages the roster egregiously and shows signs of regression with the development of young players, then we might have a different story.

 

[Gniwder]

Great news on Larkin.
That first power play unit is awesome. The second is embarrassing.

Yeah, but the second one has the Hronek-Green combo I wanted to see. Not sure why he's running all left handers on the first unit, but the 2 units are going to have completely different set ups.

How the hell is Ehn and Erne on the opening night roster over Zadina and Svechnikov???

So you didn't watch any preseason games, and you're just here to complain without any facts. Zadina is nowhere close to ready.

Zadina is nowhere near ready.
Svechnikov is borderline, but should be on, IMO.

You start by saying he's borderline then you say he shouldn't be in the AHL. Make up your mind.

I think he should be in the lineup only because AA isn't playing and Hirose needs a scorer on his line.

 

[taylorjonl]

I am kicking myself in the ass on this one, recently bought land just outside Nashville to build a home in a couple years. Haven't been out to check on the land in a while and should have flew out for this game.

 

[Bondurant]

I'll be making the trip to Nashville for this one so I'm really happy Larkin is playing.

Never been to a Wings game as a visiting fan so it should be interesting. I'll be wearing the winged wheel proud!

Report back. I've heard games in Nashville are awesome. Road games are awesome. I've watched the Wings in Chicago, New Jersey, Arizona and Montreal. Always a good time.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Yeah, but the second one has the Hronek-Green combo I wanted to see. Not sure why he's running all left handers on the first unit, but the 2 units are going to have completely different set ups.


So you didn't watch any preseason games, and you're just here to complain without any facts. Zadina is nowhere close to ready.


You start by saying he's borderline then you say he shouldn't be in the AHL. Make up your mind.

I think he should be in the lineup only because AA isn't playing and Hirose needs a scorer on his line.

You didn't watch the games and are looking for someone to argue with you as usual.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Zadina is nowhere near ready.
Svechnikov is borderline, but should be on, IMO.

At least Svech/Zadina would be another reason to watch the games.

 

[pz29]

Man that line up is bad, if they dont finish with a top 2 pick this year its going to be such a wasted season. Hoping Larkins line scores 3-4 goals a game assisted from Cholowski and Hronek but the other team puts up 5 plus a night. Get a first overall type talent in the line up next year and inject a bunch of those young guys from Grand Rapids and all of a sudden the team will be really fu to watch again

Nah, we are all going to be clamoring for the "tank" here all year, finish in the bottom five, then lose the lottery and again and pick 5th. But, at least we tried to tank, right?..

 

[Electric Eric]

I am kicking myself in the ass on this one, recently bought land just outside Nashville to build a home in a couple years. Haven't been out to check on the land in a while and should have flew out for this game.

Weird flex but ok.

 

[MBH]

And I’m not guaranteed to wake up in the morning. .

Imagine how much more flimsy that guarantee would be if you had 3 heart attacks in three years.


Blashill is already in historic company in Red Wings' coaches history.

Here's a look at the other non-playoff teams from last year and their head coaching playoff droughts.

As you'll see, Blashill has the longest playoff drought at the helm of one team. 3 straight seasons.
No other coach in the NHL has made it to 3 years with one team since Tippett in Arizona.


Detroit - Blashill - Starting year 4. 3 years. 32-50. 30-52. 33.49.
Montreal - Claude Julien is starting year 3. But he was 44-38 last year.
Vancouver - Green starting year 3. Four straight years for Vancouver outside the playoffs.
Buffalo - No Playoffs 9 seasons. Coach #6 starts year 1. Nobody went more than 2 years.
Ottawa - Fired coach after 2 years with no playoffs.
Flyers - Hakstoll. Fired. 1 year out drought.
Rangers - Two years. Quinn. 1 year drought. After firing Vigneault for his first year in 5 outside the playoffs.
Devils - One year playoff drought.
Chicago - One year drought for Colliton. Fired Quenneville - a 3-time cup winner after not making the playoffs for the first time.
Minnesota - Boudreau - one year drought
Coyotes - 7 year drought. Tocchet Starting year 3. Tippett went five years. But he made the playoffs 3 straight times-ending a six year drought and took the team to the final four.
Ducks - Carlyle fired after ONE YEAR outside the playoffs. Eakins is the new coach.
Oilers - New coach. Fired McClellan after 2 years outside.
Kings - Stevens fired early in the season after a slow start. Desjardins fired later in the season. McLelllan now coaching. On coach #3 after one year outside the playoffs.

 

[MBH]

At least Svech/Zadina would be another reason to watch the games.

I do not want to watch Zadina get smashed up in the NHL.
Svech basically is what is he is. He's not going to get better playing in the AHL right now.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Imagine how much more flimsy that guarantee would be if you had 3 heart attacks in three years.


Blashill is already in historic company in Red Wings' coaches history.

Here's a look at the other non-playoff teams from last year and their head coaching playoff droughts.

As you'll see, Blashill has the longest playoff drought at the helm of one team. 3 straight seasons.
No other coach in the NHL has made it to 3 years with one team since Tippett in Arizona.


Detroit - Blashill - Starting year 4. 3 years. 32-50. 30-52. 33.49.
Montreal - Claude Julien is starting year 3. But he was 44-38 last year.
Vancouver - Green starting year 3. Four straight years for Vancouver outside the playoffs.
Buffalo - No Playoffs 9 seasons. Coach #6 starts year 1. Nobody went more than 2 years.
Ottawa - Fired coach after 2 years with no playoffs.
Flyers - Hakstoll. Fired. 1 year out drought.
Rangers - Two years. Quinn. 1 year drought. After firing Vigneault for his first year in 5 outside the playoffs.
Devils - One year playoff drought.
Chicago - One year drought for Colliton. Fired Quenneville - a 3-time cup winner after not making the playoffs for the first time.
Minnesota - Boudreau - one year drought
Coyotes - 7 year drought. Tocchet Starting year 3. Tippett went five years. But he made the playoffs 3 straight times-ending a six year drought and took the team to the final four.
Ducks - Carlyle fired after ONE YEAR outside the playoffs. Eakins is the new coach.
Oilers - New coach. Fired McClellan after 2 years outside.
Kings - Stevens fired early in the season after a slow start. Desjardins fired later in the season. McLelllan now coaching. On coach #3 after one year outside the playoffs.

His seat has to be hot at this point even though Holland did him no favors with the rosters he was given...

 

[Winger98]

Imagine how much more flimsy that guarantee would be if you had 3 heart attacks in three years.


Blashill is already in historic company in Red Wings' coaches history.

Here's a look at the other non-playoff teams from last year and their head coaching playoff droughts.

As you'll see, Blashill has the longest playoff drought at the helm of one team. 3 straight seasons.
No other coach in the NHL has made it to 3 years with one team since Tippett in Arizona.


Detroit - Blashill - Starting year 4. 3 years. 32-50. 30-52. 33.49.
Montreal - Claude Julien is starting year 3. But he was 44-38 last year.
Vancouver - Green starting year 3. Four straight years for Vancouver outside the playoffs.
Buffalo - No Playoffs 9 seasons. Coach #6 starts year 1. Nobody went more than 2 years.
Ottawa - Fired coach after 2 years with no playoffs.
Flyers - Hakstoll. Fired. 1 year out drought.
Rangers - Two years. Quinn. 1 year drought. After firing Vigneault for his first year in 5 outside the playoffs.
Devils - One year playoff drought.
Chicago - One year drought for Colliton. Fired Quenneville - a 3-time cup winner after not making the playoffs for the first time.
Minnesota - Boudreau - one year drought
Coyotes - 7 year drought. Tocchet Starting year 3. Tippett went five years. But he made the playoffs 3 straight times-ending a six year drought and took the team to the final four.
Ducks - Carlyle fired after ONE YEAR outside the playoffs. Eakins is the new coach.
Oilers - New coach. Fired McClellan after 2 years outside.
Kings - Stevens fired early in the season after a slow start. Desjardins fired later in the season. McLelllan now coaching. On coach #3 after one year outside the playoffs.

How many of those teams do you expect any significant changes to due to a coaching change? Unless there are factors outside of the win/loss record, replacing the coach of an awful team is just a cosmetic fix. If the coach is getting his players to work hard, if the locker room isn't a war zone, etc., I think there's little reason to move Blashill outside of a clear upgrade becoming available and being interested.

 

[BinCookin]

I am actually really happy that many of our young guys are starting in the AHL.

We have too many vets on our team to gift these kids top 6 minutes. AND I think that is a good way to set the kids up for failure. This team will not be good with Svechnikov-Rasmussen-Zadina as the 2nd line.
They will get murdered, and all of their confidence will be destroyed, or what little these guys have left.

In the AHL, this is a a dominant line. And quite frankly if its NOT a dominant line.. then we also have Veleno down there or whomever to see WHO makes a dominant AHL line.

If they fail at the AHL level, or claiming they have nothing left to learn down there... Then lets see them dominate the AHL. Because if they cannot do that.. then at that time we would realize these guys are not even NHL talents.

Quite frankly I do not think 4th line or 3rd line NHL minutes really helps development. I think that is the kind of thing we complained about with Jurco, and Frk etc. "They need to be higher in the lineup, and not playing with garbage players". Remember that?

Well quite frankly If svechnikov is 4th line in Detroit, i do not think he ever moves up the list.
But if he can get 60+ pts in the AHL. Well now you are looking at a guy brimming with confidence. he KNOWS hes NHL ready, and he expects to be top 6 or top 9. And at that point these guys are ready for the NHL.

We can complain all we want about how Tatar and Nyquist were held back, but I would suggest their development was done right. 2nd and 4th round selections are bonafide top 6 talent on each of their current teams (so its not just in detroit where they are good).

This is how you develop players RIGHT. Its not about Tanking. Its about being sure the Veleno and Rasmussen are way better choices than Filppula and Neilsen. Because right now I am not sure Veleno would outscore Filppula THIS year. But Next year I think he can, and I think playing Veleno in the AHL is the best way for him to get a heck of a lot of playing time.

I see playing time as key for development not "competition". Because as much as some of you may think the AHL is a garbage league, it is not. It is quite competitive, and only NHL talents rip it up down there. And that is what we are going to find out... who in the AHL is actually an NHL talent.

 

[MBH]

How many of those teams do you expect any significant changes to due to a coaching change? Unless there are factors outside of the win/loss record, replacing the coach of an awful team is just a cosmetic fix. If the coach is getting his players to work hard, if the locker room isn't a war zone, etc., I think there's little reason to move Blashill outside of a clear upgrade becoming available and being interested.

Losing coaches get fired.
It's the way of pro sports.

I'd fire Blashill for reasons beyond his atrocious record - which is more than reason enough to do it.

But that's beside the point.

The point is, Blashill has to know his time is nearing an end with the Wings. As it is, he's 6th or 7th in longevity.
Guys ahead of him like Mike Babcock, a cup winner and Olympic Gold winner, are reportedly on thin ice.
The Wings' bad roster offers only so much protection.

 

[MBH]

I am actually really happy that many of our young guys are starting in the AHL.

We have too many vets on our team to gift these kids top 6 minutes. AND I think that is a good way to set the kids up for failure. This team will not be good with Svechnikov-Rasmussen-Zadina as the 2nd line.
They will get murdered, and all of their confidence will be destroyed, or what little these guys have left.

In the AHL, this is a a dominant line. And quite frankly if its NOT a dominant line.. then we also have Veleno down there or whomever to see WHO makes a dominant AHL line.

If they fail at the AHL level, or claiming they have nothing left to learn down there... Then lets see them dominate the AHL. Because if they cannot do that.. then at that time we would realize these guys are not even NHL talents.

Quite frankly I do not think 4th line or 3rd line NHL minutes really helps development. I think that is the kind of thing we complained about with Jurco, and Frk etc. "They need to be higher in the lineup, and not playing with garbage players". Remember that?

Well quite frankly If svechnikov is 4th line in Detroit, i do not think he ever moves up the list.
But if he can get 60+ pts in the AHL. Well now you are looking at a guy brimming with confidence. he KNOWS hes NHL ready, and he expects to be top 6 or top 9. And at that point these guys are ready for the NHL.

We can complain all we want about how Tatar and Nyquist were held back, but I would suggest their development was done right. 2nd and 4th round selections are bonafide top 6 talent on each of their current teams (so its not just in detroit where they are good).

This is how you develop players RIGHT. Its not about Tanking. Its about being sure the Veleno and Rasmussen are way better choices than Filppula and Neilsen. Because right now I am not sure Veleno would outscore Filppula THIS year. But Next year I think he can, and I think playing Veleno in the AHL is the best way for him to get a heck of a lot of playing time.

I see playing time as key for development not "competition". Because as much as some of you may think the AHL is a garbage league, it is not. It is quite competitive, and only NHL talents rip it up down there. And that is what we are going to find out... who in the AHL is actually an NHL talent.

I don't want a second line of Svech-Ras-Zadina.
I don't think Ras and Zadina are ready for the NHL.
They are 19-20 and have holes in their game.

I believe Svech is pretty much as ready as he's ever going to be.

There's also important decisions to be made about staging this.
There are lots of young guys to install in the next 12-18 months and I would prefer to get a look at the 23 year olds (Svech and Hirose) while the 19-20 year olds are working on their game.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Imagine how much more flimsy that guarantee would be if you had 3 heart attacks in three years.


Blashill is already in historic company in Red Wings' coaches history.

Here's a look at the other non-playoff teams from last year and their head coaching playoff droughts.

As you'll see, Blashill has the longest playoff drought at the helm of one team. 3 straight seasons.
No other coach in the NHL has made it to 3 years with one team since Tippett in Arizona.


Detroit - Blashill - Starting year 4. 3 years. 32-50. 30-52. 33.49.
Montreal - Claude Julien is starting year 3. But he was 44-38 last year.
Vancouver - Green starting year 3. Four straight years for Vancouver outside the playoffs.
Buffalo - No Playoffs 9 seasons. Coach #6 starts year 1. Nobody went more than 2 years.
Ottawa - Fired coach after 2 years with no playoffs.
Flyers - Hakstoll. Fired. 1 year out drought.
Rangers - Two years. Quinn. 1 year drought. After firing Vigneault for his first year in 5 outside the playoffs.
Devils - One year playoff drought.
Chicago - One year drought for Colliton. Fired Quenneville - a 3-time cup winner after not making the playoffs for the first time.
Minnesota - Boudreau - one year drought
Coyotes - 7 year drought. Tocchet Starting year 3. Tippett went five years. But he made the playoffs 3 straight times-ending a six year drought and took the team to the final four.
Ducks - Carlyle fired after ONE YEAR outside the playoffs. Eakins is the new coach.
Oilers - New coach. Fired McClellan after 2 years outside.
Kings - Stevens fired early in the season after a slow start. Desjardins fired later in the season. McLelllan now coaching. On coach #3 after one year outside the playoffs.

A life lesson for you is Results >= Expectations will result in new/continued employment. Results < Expectations will result in a firing.

If you looks at the Red Wings objectively and take your anti-Blashill slant out of the discussion, the Red Wings have built a roster and set on a path where the playoffs probably aren't even a single consideration for this year. Expectations likely emphasize growth of the team, more specifically the core, so all these things you are framing as relevant facts are actually pretty worthless.

But at risk of derailing a the thread, I will suggest we turn back towards the game tomorrow night.

 

[lhsgolf19]