Speculation: Potential Offseason Acquisitions II

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Striiker

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Jun 2, 2013
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I'm reading the Oilers board trade speculation thread and I'm dying a little bit inside after reading so many incredibly bad proposals. It's so painful for people to be so wrong and not be able to convince them of it, too stubborn.
 

Striiker

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I think he's talking about overall production. That's the meaning I took from it when he mentioned ROR's "one 20 goal season."

If you only look at goal and point production then Schenns right on track with him. He didn't have a 20+ goal season until this year and before than he played 3.5 full seasons.
 

Striiker

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The one guy thought Homer was still the GM. :laugh:

I actually just noticed I'd literally been shaking my head as I read for about 10 minutes. :laugh:

Schenns are...ok...meh. Flyers do well because of three forwards and thats it. Everyone else rides along. Its a crappy team but they did a great job giving LA two cups.

head-desk-bartlett.gif
 

whitstifier

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If you only look at goal and point production then Schenns right on track with him. He didn't have a 20+ goal season until this year and before than he played 3.5 full seasons.

Schenn's on track with ROR's career numbers, but he doesn't have two plus years of first line producion like ROR. The point is that ROR will get paid based on his numbers. Schenn has the potential but not the numbers.
 

LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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I actually just noticed I'd literally been shaking my head as I read for about 10 minutes. :laugh:

It actually happens a lot on the main boards as well. The other day I saw a Kings fan none the less post a novel on the trades & rumors board about what the Flyers should do under the impression that Homer was still the GM. :laugh:
 

Striiker

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Jun 2, 2013
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It actually happens a lot on the main boards as well. The other day I saw a Kings fan none the less post a novel on the trades & rumors board about what the Flyers should do under the impression that Homer was still the GM. :laugh:

I try to avoid the main boards as much as possible, it's just an infraction minefield for me. I hate reading stupid things but I don't have the patience to calmly explain why stubborn people are wrong.
 

flyersfromquebec

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Jul 22, 2012
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Ok ROR is the player I would go after....trade??? Offer sheet???
I would like him as a 2nd line C.
What do you think...how much 1st rounder if its a 6.5$ offersheet?
 

healthyscratch

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Schenn's on track with ROR's career numbers, but he doesn't have two plus years of first line producion like ROR. The point is that ROR will get paid based on his numbers. Schenn has the potential but not the numbers.

ROR is at .55 ppg career, Schenn is at .45ppg.

I'm not saying ROR isn't a pretty damn good player. But to say he should get 6.5 right now is a little silly IMO. Toews makes 6.3, ROR should get more than him?

Serious question, what do you expect Schenn to get from the Flyers?
 

Ryker

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Oct 3, 2008
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It actually happens a lot on the main boards as well. The other day I saw a Kings fan none the less post a novel on the trades & rumors board about what the Flyers should do under the impression that Homer was still the GM. :laugh:
Well, I guess he started writing it when Homer still was the GM and just didn't want that effort to go to waste :)

Oh, and to get on the topic of O'Reilly, I don't think he's worth $6.5 mio. I'd put him at around $5 mio., but then again, I haven't seen him play all that much, so he very well might be better than what I think he is.
 

whitstifier

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ROR is at .55 ppg career, Schenn is at .45ppg.

I'm not saying ROR isn't a pretty damn good player. But to say he should get 6.5 right now is a little silly IMO. Toews makes 6.3, ROR should get more than him?

Serious question, what do you expect Schenn to get from the Flyers?

Look at the last three seasons of each player and tell me. Also, consider ROR's defensive play.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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I hope you don't take this personaly, and it's more directed towards everybody loving this trade:

The Oilers would never ever do that trade.
Klefbom for Coburn is something they'd do I think. Even with something added from their site. Which leaves the rest at 17th OA and Grossmann for the 3rd OA.

As much as we make fun of them overvalueing their players, you and everybody agreeing just did the same thing.

The Preds also have zero reason to trade Jones.
He's going to hit his prime just when Weber is going to regress.
They will probably have the best defender in the league for the next 15years with those two guys.

I don't mind your perspective at all. It helped me fit my head through the door frame. :) I think we can take for granted that the Oilers FO likes Coburn a lot. Our take on "a lot" (ie, Holmgren turning down 2 2nds + Magnus Paajarvi) and theirs (ie, both sides being somehow okay with Coburn for 2 2nds) differs pretty considerably. The Oilers have a pretty good stock of young defensemen, including Schultz, Klefbom, Marincin and Nurse. But we're intuiting (my vocabulary builder of the month; the person with whom I am working uses it all the time and it avoids the cliche joke about "assume") that MacTavish wants to accelerate the maturation process in landing Coburn.

For me, 3rd OC > Coburn > Klefbom, which I don't think is outlandish. Coburn + 17th for Klefbom + 3rd is close, and I think Grossmann could contribute nicely to the Oilers' blue line. No, I don't think the Oilers faithful would go for this, but then again I believe most of them, if asked out on a date by Kate Upton, would expect her to pick up the restaurant bill and drive them home. Arguably, MacT is the one looking to make a splash and he kind of has the luxury of a lineup filled with 1st OAs. More than pretty much any GM in the league, he could trade the 3rd pick and not have his house burned down.

Frankly, I don't even mind if it wasn't Klefbom. If the only barrier to this whole deal going down was the difference between Klefbom and, say, Gagner I'd still pull the trigger and play Gagner (somewhat underrated, IMHO) on the 2nd/3rd line as a scoring winger. Heck, a few games of Gagner / Giroux / Simmonds wouldn't be half bad.

As for the Nashville end of the deal, I based this on what I remember from main board talk from some Preds fans who said of Weber, Josi and Jones, they would be inclined to trade Jones for offense. Maybe it's the senility, maybe the shoe polish I drank with lunch, but I'm pretty sure I remember this correctly. If so, I think the Schenns for Jones is crazy, but put Brayden and any of Draisaitl, (maybe) Bennett, Dal Colle, etc., and I think the values are comparable.

I'll stand by my deal. For once.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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Chasm of Sar (north of Montreal, Qc)
Here's what my roster looks like:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
PHI Flyers
FORWARDS
------- / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Michael Raffl ($1.100m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Adam Hall ($0.650m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Seth Jones ($0.925m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m) / Oscar Klefbom ($0.894m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Al Montoya ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,698,929; BONUSES: $4,362,500
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $8,401,071

Almost $8.5 million in cap space while still having Pronger on the roster. That will fill in the LW slot nicely next to Giroux ... until the Flyers sign Bobby Ryan, of course.

Plus, the defense would be slated to become a strength of this club over the next 2-4 years, when Gostisbehere, Morin and Hagg (obviously I'm assuming they all become NHL ready) are ready (!) to take roster spots. No rush necessary. Timonen retires and returns to Asgard next year, and either one of the rookies steps up or Hextall reaches out and gets a big-body Dman like Grossmann but mobile and who can actually carry a puck.
 

flyersfromquebec

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
1,010
583
I could live with that

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.250m) / Claude Giroux ($8.275m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.000m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jason Akeson ($0.800m) / Sean Couturier ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($3.625m)
Pierre-Edouard Bellemare ($0.600m) / Scott Laughton ($0.863m) / Michael Raffl ($1.100m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Kimmo Timonen ($2.000m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Andrew MacDonald ($5.000m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Shayne Gostisbehere ($0.925m)
GOALTENDERS
Steve Mason ($4.100m)
Devan Dubnyk ($1.800m)
BUYOUTS
Daniel Briere ($0.000m)
Ilya Bryzgalov ($0.000m)
LTIR
Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,163,333; BONUSES: $2,208,333
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,936,667
 

whitstifier

Honor Black Excellence in Hockey
Mar 19, 2013
5,826
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You're boring me, last time I ask about Brayden Schenn, whattaya think?

Over the last three years (around the same number of games played--190 and 183, respectively):

ROR: .73 pt/g, high level of defensive play, insane number of penalties drawn

Schenn: .46 pt/g, solid two-way play, potential to produce more than .50 pt/g

These aren't comparable players. Schenn has the potential to have a similar trajectory in offensive production, but he hasn't performed that close to ROR's level for as long as ROR has--two and a third seasons. If ROR is worth 6.5 per, then Schenn is worth quite a bit less, whatever that is. Playing the numbers game here, not the potential game.
 
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