Potential HOF QB's?

[DaaaaB's]

The borderline tier to me is Rivers, Ryan, Stafford and Eli. So you either leave them all out and say that there's too many good QBs in their era, that even great ones like that that can't make it. Or you put them all in and the cutoff line becomes Flacco, Romo, Newton, etc. I would lean towards leaving Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, Eli OUT. The QBs have to be compared to this era and with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Wilson, etc. there's too many guys in front of them.

I'd agree with this. I'm not sure that Roethlisberger is any better than Rivers but he has two rings. I'm also not sure that Troy Aikman was any better than a few of those guys but he won 3 rings.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Eli Manning shouldn't even be a borderline case. He's not an HOF player. But he's going to get in.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Again, it's due to the change in the rules and not being able to mug receivers on short routes.

That "67% completion rate" was good 10th this year.

To put that in perspective...Tua and Jimmy G both had a higher completion % this season. Goff had the same % at 67.2

It's definitely made a difference. Your example kind of goes both ways tho. Receivers used to get away with roughing up DBs too. But yeah overall the rules favor QBs more now. I still think the best QBs of the past 15-20 years are better than most if not all the guys from before that. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers are top 5 alltime with Montana imo. Mahomes likely gets in there by the time he's done.

 

[Terry Yake]

The borderline tier to me is Rivers, Ryan, Stafford and Eli. So you either leave them all out and say that there's too many good QBs in their era, that even great ones like that that can't make it. Or you put them all in and the cutoff line becomes Flacco, Romo, Newton, etc. I would lean towards leaving Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, Eli OUT. The QBs have to be compared to this era and with Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Ben, Wilson, etc. there's too many guys in front of them.

i agree, but it's going to be hard to keep eli out with his 2 SB wins against brady and the pats

 

[Hasbro]

Lets talk about interceptions then. Stafford has a much better interception rate than Marino, Elway, Favre and Aikman. Better than Montana and Young too. There's a bunch of current or recently retired QBs who have a better rate than Stafford.

Stafford also has a 67.2% completion rate. Young is the highest of those guys at 64.3%. Elway had a whopping 56.9%. So yeah QBs throw the ball more now but they're also much more efficient at it.

Like Elway he was someone who had less success being in a bad system and then got the accolades later on.

I don't think if he retired right now he'd get in, but if he has some more good seasons (not even Super Bowl good) he should get in.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Eli Manning shouldn't even be a borderline case. He's not an HOF player. But he's going to get in.

Personally I felt like even outside of his playoff runs he was roughly Stafford on the Lions level. I know his worst interception seasons are worse, but he always felt like a franchise QB to me. When added to his playoff runs going on the road I think his case is decent.

 

[Voight]

I'd agree with this. I'm not sure that Roethlisberger is any better than Rivers but he has two rings. I'm also not sure that Troy Aikman was any better than a few of those guys but he won 3 rings.

Aikman is only in because he played for the Cowboys & won 3 Super Bowls. Give him the same career in Cincinnati or San Diego and there is no gold jacket in his closet.

i agree, but it's going to be hard to keep eli out with his 2 SB wins against brady and the pats

Also playing for the Giants (one of the more influential teams) has its prestige and bonuses.

Cam is in that Bert Jones territory: MVP and case of what could have been if not for injuries.

I disagree. We saw what we saw with Cam, its more along the lines that teams figured out how to neutralize him. I never expected him to peak higher than a single MVP season.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Personally I felt like even outside of his playoff runs he was roughly Stafford on the Lions level. I know his worst interception seasons are worse, but he always felt like a franchise QB to me. When added to his playoff runs going on the road I think his case is decent.

He wasn't. Stafford in Detroit was a much better quarterback than Manning. He's got name/brand recognition and a hot run in 2011. He's much more Joe Flacco than people care to admit. He was an average starter at best.

 

[EpochLink]

Personally I felt like even outside of his playoff runs he was roughly Stafford on the Lions level. I know his worst interception seasons are worse, but he always felt like a franchise QB to me. When added to his playoff runs going on the road I think his case is decent.

Eli is going in because of his 2 super bowl wins, 2 super bowl mvp's, top 10 in passing yards, top 10 is passing touchdowns, 4X pro bowler, stable QB for a historic franchise like the New York Giants.

So there's his case, he's not first ballot though but he will get in eventually. In terms of Stafford vs Ryan, Matt Ryan has much more of a case of making the HOF than Stafford minus the Super Bowl Win.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Like Elway he was someone who had less success being in a bad system and then got the accolades later on.

I don't think if he retired right now he'd get in, but if he has some more good seasons (not even Super Bowl good) he should get in.

John Elway is arguably the most overrated average QB in league history.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

i agree that stafford shouldn't be a HOF'er unless he puts up another 4-5 solid seasons. but after this SB win i'd be very surprised if he doesn't get in

ryan shouldn't be in either but like stafford, i'm certain he will. plus, if they let rivers in i don't see how they don't let ryan in either

It just shows how much we romanticize qb’s and put them on pedestals for awardless careers while defenders with multiple valuable awards are just forgotten about.

 

[Reality Check]

I like Stafford. He was the QB of my sorry Lions for a decade. I'm happy he won a ring.

But I couldn't help but cringe at those making him a HOF as of right now.

 

[Hasbro]

John Elway is arguably the most overrated average QB in league history.

Don't stretch your self commenting on thing that happened before you started watching football Pats fan.

 

[Troy McClure]

Eli is going in because of his 2 super bowl wins, 2 super bowl mvp's, top 10 in passing yards, top 10 is passing touchdowns, 4X pro bowler, stable QB for a historic franchise like the New York Giants.

So there's his case, he's not first ballot though but he will get in eventually. In terms of Stafford vs Ryan, Matt Ryan has much more of a case of making the HOF than Stafford minus the Super Bowl Win.

You highlight how bad Eli's resume is. Eli was a starter for 16 seasons and only made four pro bowls (twice as alternates when better QBs didn't play). That's not good. Eli never once was an All-Pro because at no point in his career was he a player anyone considered as one of the best at his position.

 

[EpochLink]

You highlight how bad Eli's resume is. Eli was a starter for 16 seasons and only made four pro bowls (twice as alternates when better QBs didn't play). That's not good. Eli never once was an All-Pro because at no point in his career was he a player anyone considered as one of the best at his position.

Neither was Warren Moon, Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson. All 3 were never All Pro’s either but carved up a pretty good career.

QB are measured different than any other position in football.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Don't stretch your self commenting on thing that happened before you started watching football Pats fan.

I don’t think we ever really finished that Elway vs Young debate years back lol

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Eli Manning was an average, honest player who shined in a couple of big moments. He's Joe Flacco with an extra ring. This guy being talked about in HOF terms is one of the most shameless things in sports.
It's all based around name privilege. Who the hell was ever scared of facing Eli Manning? Be honest. Which fan ever thought: 'My team's about to get diced by Eli Manning on Sunday.'

Never. It never happened. Total fake.

 

[Troy McClure]

Neither was Warren Moon, Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson. All 3 were never All Pro’s either but carved up a pretty good career.

QB are measured different than any other position in football.

QBs should be measured against their contemporaries, and Eli was never at any point in his career a guy anyone would call a top tier QB. That's why it is very instructive to go look at his pro football reference page and see how few times he finished top ten in the kinds of QB numbers we use to determine who the best QBs are, which probably also explains why Eli's Giants teams seldom made the playoffs.

To use the three names you mentioned and compare them to Eli, Here's a smattering of things to compare. Some are subjective because they're voted on. Some are objective because they are stat-driven.

	Pro Bowls	Player of the Week	All Pro Mentions	QB Rat. Top 10	QBR Top 10	Yds/Att
Big Ben	6	18	1 season	9	9	10
Wilson	9	11	1 season	9	7	8
Moon	9	10	3 seasons	6	N/A	8
Eli	4	4	never	1	4	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hasbro]

QBs should be measured against their contemporaries, and Eli was never at any point in his career a guy anyone would call a top tier QB. That's why it is very instructive to go look at his pro football reference page and see how few times he finished top ten in the kinds of QB numbers we use to determine who the best QBs are, which probably also explains why Eli's Giants teams seldom made the playoffs.

To use the three names you mentioned and compare them to Eli, Here's a smattering of things to compare. Some are subjective because they're voted on. Some are objective because they are stat-driven.

	Pro Bowls	Player of the Week	All Pro Mentions	QB Rat. Top 10	QBR Top 10	Yds/Att
Big Ben	6	18	1 season	9	9	10
Wilson	9	11	1 season	9	7	8
Moon	9	10	3 seasons	6	N/A	8
Eli	4	4	never	1	4	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Moon is probably another good comparison for Stafford's arc since he spent six years in Canada, Kelley in the USFL, and Young in the USFL, misused in Tampa and backing up you Montana.

 

[DangleCity]

Neither was Warren Moon, Ben Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson. All 3 were never All Pro’s either but carved up a pretty good career.

QB are measured different than any other position in football.

Warren Moon and Russell Wilson were All Pros

 

[Voight]

John Elway is arguably the most overrated average QB in league history.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Voight]

I'd agree with this. I'm not sure that Roethlisberger is any better than Rivers but he has two rings. I'm also not sure that Troy Aikman was any better than a few of those guys but he won 3 rings.

Roethilisberger lead his teams to 3 Super Bowls, winning two of them. I get its hard to make it to the big dance, but a lesser QB like Grossman made it there during Rivers career. He had some good teams around him too.

 

[Hasbro]

Couldn't agree more

Meeting of the hollow cavities.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I don’t think we ever really finished that Elway vs Young debate years back lol

I think Young was a lot better than Elway.