Post-Game Talk: Post Pre-Season Talk

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I think with Sprong, he needs to stay up. A guy like him at this stage needs to be up and go through the tough times together and grow. I am all for him with Cullen or even Sheahan and Brassard. It'll force him to learn.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
30,054
5,676
I think with Sprong, he needs to stay up. A guy like him at this stage needs to be up and go through the tough times together and grow. I am all for him with Cullen or even Sheahan and Brassard. It'll force him to learn.

Having a shooter/puck possessor with the 3rd and 4th lines will pay much more dividends than trying to go "safe" with the ZAR's/Grant's.

So yea, Sprong should be tried alot there if he's not gonna be in the top 6.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
12,697
12,034
I will say, not even getting into the Sprong situation, I mean, honestly, homers or not---is there a team with a better four lines?

Where do you focus your attack against the Pens this year?

I think Sully finally got enough pieces from JR to 'roll four' again. Because, last year, they did NOT have the personnel to do that and you can see how it handcuffed the team.

(lazy backchecking, terrible d zone positioning aside, lol).
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
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Yukon
The whole "Sprong needs to be better without the puck" thing loses all its merit when you realize Sheary was garbage defensively and at supporting the puck for literally hundreds of games with nobody batting an eye on the coaching staff. They just don't like the kid, and that's fine, but if that's the case (it is) move him before you ruin the asset's value.

When you're good enough offensively to the point that you're among the league leaders at ES, it gives you a lot more leeway with the staff. Sprong can be as bad as Sheary was defensively if the rest of his game offensively was there - sadly it's not.

The biggest thing Sprong can learn to do is consistently get the puck into the OZ - whether that's with him carrying it in if the space is there, or dumping it in and then chasing it down when the space isn't there. Bitch about Sheary all you want, but that was one guy who could get the puck in the OZ on a very consistent basis.
 

Tom Hanks

Spelling mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.
Nov 10, 2017
30,456
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He certainly has been.
I know Emp liked his 3 assist game but he was awful in his own zone that game.
I do wonder if Wilson busting his jaw has had an effect mentally on him.

It were me, i would give A. Johnson a shot if need be. Let ZAR work out whatever he has to in the A.

He wasn’t great after he came back from injury last season though. Although he was with Rowney and Kuhnhackl quite a bit and that’s a terrible fit. Having said that in the playoffs before his injury I thought he was our worst forward.

At this stage he really needs the right line mates to do well.
 

Elvs

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
12,286
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Sweden
I'll say this about Grant, a year ago Ducks fans were thinking the same things many of you are thinking now, that he's just some plug. But he does the small things well that goes unnoticed, and so it took a while for Ducks fans to take a liking in him.

Strictly speaking about his game last year, he's someone who just makes the right decisions with the puck and rarely turns it over, and he'll create scoring oppurtunities as he's quick to find guys open in the slot. Solid on faceoffs and blocks shots. He's got good hand-eye around the net, making him a better PP option in case of injuries than many might think. All in all, while he has no skills that truly stands out, he's dependable both with and without the puck.

Last season he played with confidence and even showed a scoring touch. When he does that, he can be a swiss army knife type of depth player.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,535
25,388
My thoughts -

I don't get why people are down on DeSmith/Jarry. They're a touch inconsistent but they've got the quality and having two of them gives you a better chance with the inconsistency. In any case, it is what it is, you're not finding a vet who'll bring better numbers than them at the cost, but I like them.

Riikola. Everything's been said. Just stay this good forever. One comment I would make - he hasn't taken heavy NHL minutes as a regular thing yet, that attrition can be brutal on unsuspecting players, I'd go slow on his NHL responsibilities due to that.

If Dumo's out... I'm reluctant to break up Maatta-Johnson after that game, but Maatta is the guy with the most experience of taking on that sort of competition and playing with Letang. That's the safe play.

Letang's ran hot and cold this pre-season. I think people have been very harsh on Maatta, who's had some of the best underlying numbers and does look faster... just doesn't have better acceleration. Johnson's looked good. Oleksiak... meh.

I'm not up for trading dmen unless we kinda have to this season. We'll want this level of depth come the play-offs. Pray for internal development on the LW.

On ZAR. Here's what I think about the kid,

He's on the path to being a good scoring line 3rd wheel and a bad 4th line player. Or at least, that's what he's been for us the whole way through here. Which is weird when he was sold as a "3rd at highest ceiling" guy, but that's not what he's been.

So... of course he looked bad last night. Of course he looked good with Cullen and Hornqvist. I think the best thing for him to do is go back down and I think that's the best thing for the team as we don't have the berth.

Grant looks like he'll be a decent 13th forward but won't force hard decisions if that's no longer enough.

Think everything there is to be said about Sprong has been said.

I think Cullen-Sheahan could be really good for us. Brassard looks so energised.

As a whole... the wings situation still looks a little borked in the specifics, if super strong on paper. We need one of the promising LWs to take the ball and run with it. We need the RW jigsaw to resolve itself. Cookies isn't wrong that Rust to LW solves a lot of issues there, but we'll see how that one plays out.

My guess is it won't take long for Crosby-Horny and Geno-Phil to play out... but my guess is that Rust will get promoted to L1 when that happens and everyone else will get demoted a line. Not sure that solves the problem.


Incidentally... I don't think it's too early to ask who people have in mind for LW targets in season? I hope its not needed, but there's a decent chance it goes down. I can see Rutherford trying a bargain bin solution in December/January if he can make it work.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,544
22,068
Pittsburgh
The whole "Sprong needs to be better without the puck" thing loses all its merit when you realize Sheary was garbage defensively and at supporting the puck for literally hundreds of games with nobody batting an eye on the coaching staff. They just don't like the kid, and that's fine, but if that's the case (it is) move him before you ruin the asset's value.
I think that's a pretty big leap. The circumstances around the two joining the team are very different that you can easily see why they'd be treated differently. There were just legit holes in the team when sheary came up. It was easier for him because who was he competing with compared to sprong? So he was easily given ice time, and then kept getting better that first year. And then he blew the hell up in his second year.

He's being treated like a normal prospect trying to take a spot from really good players. There's been nothing unfair about it, so I don't see where the dislike comes in.
 
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ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
Pittsburgh
I don't know that I'd go there.

In just the Sid/Geno era, I think the 2007-2008 AND 2015-2016 teams were just a deep, probably 2008-2009 too (where we are talking both up front and on the blueline cumulatively).

And, as important as it is to be deep, it is even more important for the pieces to fit well together.

No way were any of those teams just as deep as this one at the start of the regular season. One of them had Miro Satan in the top 6... All of which were before trades took over and made them way better.

You are looking at final rosters vs. starting rosters. I cannot think of a single roster the Pens had this deep except 93 to start the season.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,297
19,376
I play LW and have the same handedness and i can tell you its easily the preferred side to be on. Not only for stick handling and puck protection but also for taking shots. Such beautiful chances. One timers under the blocker for LWers is the money shot.

So you are a lefty or righty? Not sure if you mean same as Rust or you mean natural side from the bolded.

It's weird how much this coaching staff loves ZAR despite how bad he often looks, yet seems to be constantly underwhelmed by Sprong when he doesn't light it up.

Did they seriously say that ZAR had a good preseason?

There’s no way...
 
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Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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Did they seriously say that ZAR had a good preseason?

There’s no way...

Rutherford's said he expected more. Dunno about the coaches, don't think they've said ought... but the strong possibility that he's going to WBS tells its own tale.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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Rutherford's said he expected more. Dunno about the coaches, don't think they've said ought... but the strong possibility that he's going to WBS tells its own tale.

I just haven’t seen anything about ZAR to be excited about since I first watched him last season.

TDP, TB or Johnson should be called up over him when injuries hit. Guys like Angello and Lafferty were a lot more impressive as well this Sept than ZAR.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
There was like a 2 game stretch, 3 at most, where I saw something from ZAR that showed he was something other than your typical, reserve call-up, AHL fodder. The rest was varying degrees of bad. I think he's an NHL caliber guy, but I do not think it is with this team. I don't really think much differently of Simon either. He can probably carve out a spot on a bad team somewhere, but he's not one of our 12 best forwards.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,343
18,770
Pittsburgh
He certainly has been.
I know Emp liked his 3 assist game but he was awful in his own zone that game.
I do wonder if Wilson busting his jaw has had an effect mentally on him.

It were me, i would give A. Johnson a shot if need be. Let ZAR work out whatever he has to in the A.

I'm with you there. Two lines specifically reach out to me that could benefit from AJ addition are...

AJ, Brassard, Rust - 3rd line
AJ, Cullen/Sheahan, Sprong - 4th line
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,569
21,110
I'd be ok moving him for a guy like Ho-Sang.

Good God why? So rather than a winger struggling to find a role on a deep contender, we could have a winger with attitude problems who couldn't make a non-playoff team?

If there are two less compatible people in hockey than Sullivan and Ho-Sang, I've yet to see them.

Sprong had an underwhelming offensive performance. That’s it. It happens.

The only game where Sprong's offensive game could be credibly evaluated was the game he had with Crosby. 1 out of 4. And Guentzel was no more impressive that game (or any game this preseason, to be honest) than Sprong was.
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,415
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Good God why? So rather than a winger struggling to find a role on a deep contender, we could have a winger with attitude problems who couldn't make a non-playoff team?

Sprong wouldn't have made the Penguins this year if he was waiver exempt and it's not like Sprong doesn't have attitude problems either. They're in pretty similar situations, but with Ho Sang having more NHL success and Ho Sang being waiver exempt.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,569
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Sprong wouldn't have made the Penguins this year if he was waiver exempt and it's not like Sprong doesn't have attitude problems either. They're in pretty similar situations, but with Ho Sang having more NHL success and Ho Sang being waiver exempt.

Let's not put Sprong and Ho-Sang on the same planet attitude-wise. I mean, I can bring out the laundry list for Ho-Sang but I don't think that's necessary. People have Google.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,569
21,110
Just worth noting, I just saw this tweet and this is relevant here:



I know some people have been saying ZAR is only a LWer, but it looks like he has a lot of experience on RW. He may directly challenge Sprong for ice time this year.


200.gif
 
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Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,343
18,770
Pittsburgh
Game #1 is going to be a little nerve racking since it's the Caps and Wilson to be blunt. ZAR should have a lot of feelings running through him. Maybe we'll see his best game ever?
 

AjaxTelamon

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
6,070
1,825
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but per DK, JR said Riikola will be here to start the season, and further, JR knew he'd be here to start the season. Good for Riikola and good for the team, notwithstanding any news about Dumo of course.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,297
19,376
Game #1 is going to be a little nerve racking since it's the Caps and Wilson to be blunt. ZAR should have a lot of feelings running through him. Maybe we'll see his best game ever?

ZAR shouldn’t even be in the lineup, not only because he’s not really playing well, but this team doesn’t need fireworks like that TBTH.

Without Reaves around, they just need to stick to ignoring all that shit like Sullivan preaches.
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
No way were any of those teams just as deep as this one at the start of the regular season. One of them had Miro Satan in the top 6... All of which were before trades took over and made them way better.

You are looking at final rosters vs. starting rosters. I cannot think of a single roster the Pens had this deep except 93 to start the season.
Satan was on the 08-09 team. 07-08 was Sykora.
 
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