Post-Game Talk: Post Pre-Season Talk

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Riptide

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I don't even know what they'd buy at the deadline. There aren't really any holes on this team, especially if Riikola and Johnson continue their strong preseasons. Your worst position is LW, where you still have a top line LWer and 2 3rd line LWers.

An upgrade offensively somewhere, or perhaps a better backup? IDK. Really depends on how various players perform and who's healthy.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I don't see Rutherford moving Maatta in season. In the summer, absolutely, but not during the season - he loves his depth and Maatta too much to make that move.

Here's a question for you.

Say Riikola proves worthy of a top 6 spot as the season progresses. That is NOT an unreasonable proposition, correct?

Say neither Simon nor Sprong seizes and produces, over time, in a top 9 role. This is NOT an unreasonable proposition, correct?

In this scenario, are you better served having one of Oleksiak/Maatta on the bench or Riikola in WBS or on the bench than you'd be in leveraging an asset to find a top 9 upgrade?

I'm not saying that it WILL happen. There obviously are variables, among those the ones cited. But, I hardly see this scenario as implausible. Less likely than not? Sure, that's fair. But, I definitely COULD see it.
 

Riptide

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But Cole...what if Jarry/Desmith have to play 40 games again? The Pens got away with it last year. But. It isnt calming.

I guess just hope Murray can be healthy for a 60+ game season.

I'm honestly not all that worried about it. If this team is playing like they can (not even lights out, just on average), DeSmith or Jarry - even playing 40 games should be able to keep them in the POs. While I get the concerns about the backup not really pushing Murray like MAF did, it wouldn't be something I'd even think about until closer to the TD.
 

AjaxTelamon

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Jul 8, 2011
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An upgrade offensively somewhere, or perhaps a better backup? IDK. Really depends on how various players perform and who's healthy.

And upgrade on Simon at L3 LW if he fails to take a step forward from last year would be my best guess. I don't know, we have a decent backup to the backup goalie, we have some solid options in the A for bottom 6 duty. We even have a good backup for Sid and Geno.

This is as deep as we've been since, heck, 1993 I guess.
 

Speaking Moistly

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The real question: Is even the fearsome menace of unfettered Letang enough to get Riikola shook?

I'm not sure. He's cooler than a White Walker with frostbite.

I’d give it 5 games before Riikola got rattled or “day to day” if Letang is in full trainwreck mode. I don’t know how he hasn’t broken Dumoulin down more and Dumoulin is extremely suited to babysitting Letang. Dumoulin also kind of worked his way up to the full on “AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!” Letang. Good Letang would be a different conversation but bad Letang is a menace and Sullivan would probably end up doing a panicked D shuffle to attempt to get Letang going. It’s a lot to put on any player. I don’t think making Maatta his keeper would be good for Maatta either. He’s just got more experience with how dirty the league is and how unpredictable Letang can be. I’d expect him to sort himself out when it’s over.

I’m always tempted to say just cycle through the D with him so no one gets the brunt of him when he’s at his worst. If he behaves then try Riikola there to see what happens.
 
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Riptide

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Another good point to think about is that Trotman had a good camp and the Penguins noticed, so the idea that you need to keep Ruhwedel for depth is hurt with that somewhat. You can get rid of Ruhwedel, run with Oleksiak and Riikola alternating between HS and 3rd pair LD and have Trotman as your #8 with WBS, I'm not sure that's worse than having Ruhwedel on the NHL roster.

You can also pick up a depth defenseman easily during the season for a 4th round pick, so I'm not even sure why they'd worry about losing Ruhwedel in the first place.

Ruhwedel has played almost 100 NHL games for Pittsburgh over the past two seasons, Trotman 3. And given that Ruhwedel has averaged more minutes (POs or RS) then Trotman has played in any game he's played for us, I don't see Rutherford being all that willing to move him anytime soon just because we have Trotman in the minors. He had a really rough camp - it happens. But the good news is that he's only our 7 or 8D (depending if Riikola is up/down) when healthy. You have time to allow him to work out the kinks, while also giving him a permanent seat in the pressbox until the injuries really pile up, or you need his roster spot or cap space.

HF might be willing to roll that dice... but this is Rutherford we're talking about. He wants all the depth he can get.
 
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KIRK

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And upgrade on Simon at L3 LW if he fails to take a step forward from last year would be my best guess. I don't know, we have a decent backup to the backup goalie, we have some solid options in the A for bottom 6 duty. We even have a good backup for Sid and Geno.

This is as deep as we've been since, heck, 1993 I guess.

I don't know that I'd go there.

In just the Sid/Geno era, I think the 2007-2008 AND 2015-2016 teams were just a deep, probably 2008-2009 too (where we are talking both up front and on the blueline cumulatively).

And, as important as it is to be deep, it is even more important for the pieces to fit well together.

We still have to see if Phil can fit longer term with Geno (and fit means to the betterment of Geno) or with Brass (and likely Rust). We still have to see if someone fits with Sid-Jake (either Sid gets comfortable longer term with Horny or one of Simon/Sprong steps up). We still have to see how the defensive pairings shake out and mesh.

Come back to me in late March. After these things have sorted out, for better or for worse. After JR has done his in season work. After injuries. As fatigue may or may not set in for key players.

THAT is when you talk about whether this team is or is not deeper than the ones that entered the 2008, 2009, and 2016 playoffs.
 
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PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
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Rust still plays with blinders on to a certain degree, but there's so much else to love about his game.

Hell, him having tunnel vision makes it a pretty good bet he's gonna take it to the rack off the rush, so it might even be a feature rather than a bug. ;)


Actually thought his game in the playoffs looked bad because he tried being a playmaker alot...


Want blinders Rust who just takes it to the net. Noticed a few times in the playoffs he would pull up and try to dish, instead of taking the puck to the net.
 

Speaking Moistly

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Ruhwedel has played almost 100 NHL games for Pittsburgh over the past two seasons, Trotman 3. And given that Ruhwedel has averaged more minutes (POs or RS) then Trotman has played in any game he's played for us, I don't see Rutherford being all that willing to move him anytime soon just because we have Trotman in the minors. He had a really rough camp - it happens. But the good news is that he's only our 7 or 8D (depending if Riikola is up/down) when healthy. You have time to allow him to work out the kinks, while also giving him a permanent seat in the pressbox until the injuries really pile up, or you need his roster spot or cap space.

HF might be willing to roll that dice... but this is Rutherford we're talking about. He wants all the depth he can get.

And if Trotman is the one I’m thinking of, he was horrendous in the nhl games he got last season. It’s a minuscule sample size either way but it’s not something JR should gamble on.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
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Another good point to think about is that Trotman had a good camp and the Penguins noticed, so the idea that you need to keep Ruhwedel for depth is hurt with that somewhat. You can get rid of Ruhwedel, run with Oleksiak and Riikola alternating between HS and 3rd pair LD and have Trotman as your #8 with WBS, I'm not sure that's worse than having Ruhwedel on the NHL roster.

You can also pick up a depth defenseman easily during the season for a 4th round pick, so I'm not even sure why they'd worry about losing Ruhwedel in the first place.


Ruhwedel has shown alot more than Trotman.
 

WayneSid9987

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Nov 24, 2009
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ZAR is awful.

He certainly has been.
I know Emp liked his 3 assist game but he was awful in his own zone that game.
I do wonder if Wilson busting his jaw has had an effect mentally on him.

It were me, i would give A. Johnson a shot if need be. Let ZAR work out whatever he has to in the A.
 

Riptide

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Here's a question for you.

Say Riikola proves worthy of a top 6 spot as the season progresses. That is NOT an unreasonable proposition, correct?

Say neither Simon nor Sprong seizes and produces, over time, in a top 9 role. This is NOT an unreasonable proposition, correct?

In this scenario, are you better served having one of Oleksiak/Maatta on the bench or Riikola in WBS or on the bench than you'd be in leveraging an asset to find a top 9 upgrade?

I'm not saying that it WILL happen. There obviously are variables, among those the ones cited. But, I hardly see this scenario as implausible. Less likely than not? Sure, that's fair. But, I definitely COULD see it.

Both of those propositions are ones that could very easily come true.

But I still don't think Rutherford would move Maatta or Oleksiak this season vs trying to use what cap space he has left and one (or both) of Sprong/Simon to go after someone who could provide a little more depth up front. This is a guy that loves depth like few others, and knows that you need 8D come playoff time. And as much of a fan of Ruhwedel as I am, I'm much happier with him as our 7/8 with Oleksiak (which is how I see things currently) then I am with having Ruh and Trotman as our 7/8.

I mean even if Simon and Sprong both struggle to show that they're 3rd liners, at the end of the day, if we're healthy that's all we need them to be is 3rd liners. And if we're that unhappy with them, finding a 3rd line guy on an expiring contract who we can afford cap wise won't be all that hard. Might not be a big splashy name (such as Brassard), but I don't really think we need more skilled/offensive players at this point vs someone a little more Rust like (even without his speed). Or you move Brassard to LW and promote Sheahan. Lots of different options available to us even without moving someone with a bigger contract (2m+).

I mean maybe Blueger comes up and shows that Grant is expendable (aka free to put on waivers or to trade) - this given our overall C depth already, what we've seen from TB in camp and the likely role we'd want/need TB to play also isn't all that unrealistic. You do that, and you save cap/roster space to go after someone else. Trade Simon or Sprong and send Grant to the minors (or trade him). There's 1.4m in cap space. Which if the other team retains 50%, we could afford someone making 2.8m - and that's even before getting into whatever cap space we would have acquired over the season or pro rating the contracts (like what normally happens at the TD).
 
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Speaking Moistly

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He certainly has been.
I know Emp liked his 3 assist game but he was awful in his own zone that game.
I do wonder if Wilson busting his jaw has had an effect mentally on him.

It were me, i would give A. Johnson a shot if need be. Let ZAR work out whatever he has to in the A.

ZAR is just a massive who the f*** knows for me.

- Strong start to his AHL career but iirc someone said that college players a fresher when they come in at the end of the season and it gives them an edge.
- I think something mentioned he hurt his wrist? (yeah, there might be a trend here)
- Weak 1st preseason and rookie scrimmage thing.
- Slow start to his AHL season
- But wait, his wisdom teeth! Never mind that a 23 year old should be able to promptly take himself to a dentist if he’s in pain or tell a trainer.
- Starts producing well in the AHL
- Meh first nhl game's
- Scores goals with Crosby
- Gets hurt
- Meh in a 4th line role
- Bad playoffs on L4
- Gets hurt
- Compromised off season
- Weak preseason but apparently the org/Yohe thought it was good.

That accounts for 16 RS games, 9 PO games and however many preseason games he’s played. Probably ~30 in total so it’s still a small sample size. Maybe it’s all about playing with talent or not getting hurt, or maybe he had a random good streak never to be seen again. idk.
 
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Son Goku

henlo u stinky egg
Mar 8, 2014
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Rust creates most of his offense on his off-wing and seems to gravitate to that side so he can protect the puck.

I’ve read where people think he plays more comfortably at rw, but I’ve continually noticed Rust prefers that left side when he gets the puck.
I play LW and have the same handedness and i can tell you its easily the preferred side to be on. Not only for stick handling and puck protection but also for taking shots. Such beautiful chances. One timers under the blocker for LWers is the money shot.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
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It's weird how much this coaching staff loves ZAR despite how bad he often looks, yet seems to be constantly underwhelmed by Sprong when he doesn't light it up.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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It's weird how much this coaching staff loves ZAR despite how bad he often looks, yet seems to be constantly underwhelmed by Sprong when he doesn't light it up.

It's weird and it's not weird. Coaches usually prefer safe, low-upside players to riskier high-upside players even if the latter have a good chance at being bigger net positives.
 

Riptide

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It's weird and it's not weird. Coaches usually prefer safe, low-upside players to riskier high-upside players even if the latter have a good chance at being bigger net positives.

Yep. The low upside player might not score as much for you, but if you know that the other team won't score as much when he's on the ice, it makes it a lot easier to play the Kuhnhackls and Rowney's who will play a fairly safe if uninspiring game vs someone like Sprong who has the potential to get you goals but also frustrate the hell out of you to the point where you bench him.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Penguins' Dominik Simon works to create scoring chances

Sully, could you say a few words about Simon?:

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzA4OC85MTEvb3JpZ2luYWwvZ29sZGVuLXJldHJpZXZlci1wdXBweS5qcGVn


And your thoughts on Sprong?:

generic-attack-dog-1_3526567.jpg
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
10,952
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A few thoughts.

Brass had a great preseason. Fast, aggressive, dangerous. You guys still want to trade him? Having HBK levels of pressure from the 3rd line would be huge.

Cullen. Awesome. He may or may not know the actual location of the Fountain of Youth.

JMFJ. He looked like a great fit for this team. Time will tell as he continues to learn the system and his teammates.

Trotman outplayed Ruh. Trotman already cleared waivers and they aren't going to waive Ruh based on a few bad preseason games.

Riikola. No words.

Grant didn't have a good final game.

Hags knows it's a contract year.

This is going to be a very fun season to watch. Enjoy it.
 

WayneSid9987

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Nov 24, 2009
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On Grant i'll say he can be good/suitable with the right 2 guys on his line. Sheahan and ZAR ain't it tho.
The biggest thing that Grant brings that Kuhnackl didn't was his net front posture and play.
Grant loves to go there, Kuhn, not so much.
 
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xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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The whole "Sprong needs to be better without the puck" thing loses all its merit when you realize Sheary was garbage defensively and at supporting the puck for literally hundreds of games with nobody batting an eye on the coaching staff. They just don't like the kid, and that's fine, but if that's the case (it is) move him before you ruin the asset's value.
 
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