Post-mortem on the season

[SouthGeorge]

Let's also address the offense looking worse without Letang.. 2017 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.8 goals while giving up 2.5. 2018 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.3 goals while giving up 3.1. Just an all around better team without Letang. It's clear as day and the stats back it. Not sure what else anybody needs to see tbh.

 

[Pancakes]

Let's also address the offense looking worse without Letang.. 2017 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.8 goals while giving up 2.5. 2018 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.3 goals while giving up 3.1. Just an all around better team without Letang. It's clear as day and the stats back it. Not sure what else anybody needs to see tbh.

Clear as day based off of a sample size of 13 games?

Nah.

 

[3074326]

Problem with those numbers is that Letang wasn't the only players who forgot how to play defense. There were others.

Tanger had a rough playoff, but let's not pin all the blame on him. There's plenty to go around.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Clear as day based off of a sample size of 13 games?

Nah.

Off of watching this team in the playoffs the last two years. Those stats are for the people saying last year was a fluke and the offense looked worse without Letang.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Problem with those numbers is that Letang wasn't the only players who forgot how to play defense. There were others.

Tanger had a rough playoff, but let's not pin all the blame on him. There's plenty to go around.

I agree he wasn't the only one making mistakes. But the stats show this a one goal series. You can pin at least 3-5 goals on him, that's the difference. This is suppose to be your "best d-man" and making 7.25 mill. Nah, use that money and get another pmd like Schultz and a wing and this team is still playing and a real dynasty.

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree he wasn't the only one making mistakes. But the stats show this a one goal series. You can pin at least 3-5 goals on him, that's the difference. This is suppose to be your "best d-man" and making 7.25 mill. Nah, use that money and get another pmd like Schultz and a wing and this team is still playing and a real dynasty.

False.

 

[Pancakes]

At first I was open to moving Letang, but the more I think about it the more convinced I get that we're unlikely to get the value to make it worth it. Given his age, health concerns, etc, I just highly doubt we'd get what we want for him.

 

[turd]

Let's also address the offense looking worse without Letang.. 2017 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.8 goals while giving up 2.5. 2018 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.3 goals while giving up 3.1. Just an all around better team without Letang. It's clear as day and the stats back it. Not sure what else anybody needs to see tbh.

Kris Letang is not without fault this year, and I wouldn’t be opposed to moving him. That said, those cherry picked stats are really misleading. Last year, Holtby couldn’t stop a beach ball and MAF was on fire. This year, Murray couldn’t stop a beach ball and Holtby was on fire. I don’t disagree that Letang had horrible moments that ended up with the puck in the back of the net, but the difference in goaltending between the years must be factored in.

 

[pistolpete11]

Let's also address the offense looking worse without Letang.. 2017 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.8 goals while giving up 2.5. 2018 playoffs against Caps - Averaging 2.3 goals while giving up 3.1. Just an all around better team without Letang. It's clear as day and the stats back it. Not sure what else anybody needs to see tbh.

I'd be curious to know what the stats look like comparing 2016 to 2017. I have a suspicion 2016 with Letang were much better than 2017 without Letang...

 

[RizzleMcRib]

I'd be curious to know what the stats look like comparing 2016 to 2017. I have a suspicion 2016 with Letang were much better than 2017 without Letang...

Postseason..
2015-16 with Letang we had the best shot differential in the league.
2016-17 without Letang we had one of the worst shot differentials (only Edmonton was worse).
2017-18 with Letang we went back to having one of the best differentials in the league. Lowest shots against in the playoffs actually.

Maybe it's just a coincidence. Or it could be that with Letang we were a better team.

Also like to add that both years we won we had a save% above .900. This year. sub .900
That's not Letang's fault. Not throwing Murray under the bus, he had a lot of unfortunate incidents that would make it really hard to focus on the game this year.

 

[pistolpete11]

At first I was open to moving Letang, but the more I think about it the more convinced I get that we're unlikely to get the value to make it worth it. Given his age, health concerns, etc, I just highly doubt we'd get what we want for him.

With his age, health concerns, etc., that's only going to get worse, though. So do you cut bait and get what you can? Or does he provide enough value that you live with the mistakes? If you cut bait, when do you do it? Do you do it when he would still have relatively high value? Or as a cap dump if his play continues to take a dive?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Off of watching this team in the playoffs the last two years. Those stats are for the people saying last year was a fluke and the offense looked worse without Letang.

Was Kessel and Brassard’s injury and their ability to perform at their best Letangs fault too?

 

[Andy99]

Postseason..
2015-16 with Letang we had the best shot differential in the league.
2016-17 without Letang we had one of the worst shot differentials (only Edmonton was worse).
2017-18 with Letang we went back to having one of the best differentials in the league. Lowest shots against in the playoffs actually.

Maybe it's just a coincidence. Or it could be that with Letang we were a better team.

Also like to add that both years we won we had a save% above .900. This year. sub .900
That's not Letang's fault. Not throwing Murray under the bus, he had a lot of unfortunate incidents that would make it really hard to focus on the game this year.

We also have to take shooting % into account as well...2015-16 and 2016-17 our shooting % was much higher too...not just a goaltending issue...does that have any relation to Letang? Doubtful...

 

[Pancakes]

With his age, health concerns, etc., that's only going to get worse, though. So do you cut bait and get what you can? Or does he provide enough value that you live with the mistakes? If you cut bait, when do you do it? Do you do it when he would still have relatively high value? Or as a cap dump if his play continues to take a dive?

I think I'd rather just hold onto him if the value isn't there and hope he rebounds.

I do not care if Letang becomes an albatross at age 34 or 35. Because Sid/Geno will be old by then too, so who cares? Try to win the Cups now while we still have a window, and worry about the long term later. We're most likely going to be like Vancouver is now in about 4-5 years anyways so best to just go for it while we can.

So if we trade Letang, it needs to be for a haul of assets that makes us better right now, not 5-6 years from now. And how realistic is it we get that type of package?

 

[RizzleMcRib]

We also have to take shooting % into account as well...2015-16 and 2016-17 our shooting % was much higher too...not just a goaltending issue...does that have any relation to Letang? Doubtful...

Im just saying with Letang in the lineup we seem to push the play.

But like I said... It could be purely coincidental

 

[vikingGoalie]

I agree he wasn't the only one making mistakes. But the stats show this a one goal series. You can pin at least 3-5 goals on him, that's the difference. This is suppose to be your "best d-man" and making 7.25 mill. Nah, use that money and get another pmd like Schultz and a wing and this team is still playing and a real dynasty.

it's really not that simple. you can pin at least 3 goals on murray. you can also say that our team offense went in the tank because our #2 and #3 centers were either out or hurt. you can also point at our 92 points in the regular season winger who is normally money in the playoffs being hobbled with injury, throw in a slump on a few other players and our offense was not what it was.

That is important because our defense in the past has always been predicated upon unrelenting offense, when we are not giving up chances it's because our forwards are on the other team not giving them time to do diddly (watch vegas this year) and keeping the puck out of their own end. You are also forgetting that in 2016 Letang was a ROCK on defense, he did just have major surgery and not have a summer of training like he normally does. I am in the boat that he will be better next season and when he is on his game he is a true #1 defensemen and there are not alot of those to go around. At the very least I think the pens shoudl wait and see if this season is the new normal or a blip in letang's career before trading him. I also feel like even with all our issues we were better then the caps for most of the minutes played in our series. So let's not send Letang off to the crossroads just yet...

 

[SouthGeorge]

I'd be curious to know what the stats look like comparing 2016 to 2017. I have a suspicion 2016 with Letang were much better than 2017 without Letang...

Schultz filled Letangs role fine. 2016 - 6th most points. Letang. 3 goals 12 assist. +6. 22 penalty minutes. 2017 - 5th most points. Schultz. 4 goals 9 assist. +3. 4 penalty minutes.

 

[pistolpete11]

Schultz filled Letangs role fine. 2016 - 6th most points. Letang. 3 goals 12 assist. +6. 22 penalty minutes. 2017 - 5th most points. Schultz. 4 goals 9 assist. +3. 4 penalty minutes.

2018 - Letang 3 goals 8 assists (in only 11 games). even. 15 PIM.

That's not that big of a difference. I'm not saying I disagree with you or not, but your points are very flawed.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think I'd rather just hold onto him if the value isn't there and hope he rebounds.

I do not care if Letang becomes an albatross at age 34 or 35. Because Sid/Geno will be old by then too, so who cares? Try to win the Cups now while we still have a window, and worry about the long term later. We're most likely going to be like Vancouver is now in about 4-5 years anyways so best to just go for it while we can.

So if we trade Letang, it needs to be for a haul of assets that makes us better right now, not 5-6 years from now. And how realistic is it we get that type of package?

I think Letang would still have quite a bit of value, but I also think it would be damn near impossible to find another 2016 Letang. So I think it's worth seeing if he rebounds some in 2018-2019. I'd be checking in with teams to see what I could get now, though.

I agree the next 4-5 years are their best bets to win another Cup, but I don't want to completely throw away the final years of Crosby and Malkin, either. I mean, Joe Thornton was a key cog in that Sharks team that almost won a Cup and he was 36. As good as he is, I don't think he is Crosby or Malkin. So if at all possible, I'd like to avoid Letang becoming that albatross of a contract and try to find the sweet spot of unloading his contract while still getting some value back for him. Easier said than done, of course.

 

[Rusty Razor]

The biggest obstacle to me in any Letang trade is who are we going to make it with? Other than maybe Edmonton, what team thinks they could be a contender, but is interested in acquiring a top pairing right-handed defenseman; wants to give up roster players instead of futures to get said top pairing defenseman; and has a right handed top 4 defenseman they would be willing to send as part of the package?

 

[SouthGeorge]

2018 - Letang 3 goals 8 assists (in only 11 games). even. 15 PIM.

That's not that big of a difference. I'm not saying I disagree with you or not, but your points are very flawed.

So basically he was on par for his normal stat line, maybe slightly better. Which is funny because people who defend him act like he had some amazing run in 2016 and they would have never won without him. Like I've been saying this is the same Letang nothing has changed. Only difference is Pierre and the crew were calling him out all game so people are finally paying attention. I've linked clips of him making the same bonehead mistakes in 2016. He's not going to magically grow a brain in the off-season. Move him while you can.

 

[Joejosh999]

I think those stats on Letang may suggest what we've been debating re positives and negatives.
Since the neck surgery, negatives seem to outweigh the positives. And the gaffes have been obvious enough that it's finally being called out.

I hope JR at least sees what kind of return may be out there.

 

[larueskee]

A lot has been discussed about the Pens defense and Letang and most is valid. I think the bigger issue was in Sullivan and Rutherford's roster choices during the last off season. Not retaining Cole, who was instrumental in negating Wilson's antics might have been a big issue.

 

[Gurglesons]

A lot has been discussed about the Pens defense and Letang and most is valid. I think the bigger issue was in Sullivan and Rutherford's roster choices during the last off season. Not retaining Cole, who was instrumental in negating Wilson's antics might have been a big issue.

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Crosby on Letang:

"There's no doubt in my mind, no matter what the situation or how big the game is, regardless of what happened the game before, that you can depend and rely on him. I know everyone has good games and bad games but as a teammate you couldn't have a more dependable, reliable guy that competes the way he does."

Whatever you say Sid, whatever you say.