Salary Cap: Post-Duper decisions to be made

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SEALBound

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Jack Johnson is a worse Letang. Has all of the same shortcomings; bad passer, out of position defensively, leaves a lot to be desired offensively, and dumb as a bag of rocks. Only worse. Much worse.

Add that to the cost of the Penguins attaining him...I don't think it's doable. JMFJ is a guy they need to keep if there if they are rebuilding.

Boone Jenner is the CBJ I would go after. Hard. Foligno too. I think he'll rebound. Just like the Pens players, all CBJ are having a down year.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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I'd kill for Foligno and/or Jenner. Two guys who bring a whole lot of what this team's sorely lacking.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Just think...Michalek to Ottawa for Nick Foligno.

Dear lord what a couple of trades gone differently could have done for us.

What're you, new? :laugh: You can't make a trade to change the complexion of your hockey club like that, man. You've gotta make sure ol' Z feels at home, feels loved, feels appreciated. You've gotta trade him back to Arizona for a 3rd (which ended up being Sundqvist, I think).
 

MeinerEiner

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Dec 9, 2013
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If think if they´re going to lose vs. CAR and CBJ the season is done for the Pens and should be sellers from Tuesday on. Everybody but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Maatta, Letang and Fleury should be available. When even Scuderi has value guys like Perron, Bonino, Lovejoy should get you something back and they would have enough time to give guys like Simon, Pouliot and Sundqvist a long shot on the team. With like 50 games left they should use Murray as a backup and give him like 15-20 games to get a good look at him. Usually I´m pretty optimistic about this team but right now I don´t have any hopes for this season anymore.
 

joeyjake5

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Feb 23, 2014
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If think if they´re going to lose vs. CAR and CBJ the season is done for the Pens and should be sellers from Tuesday on. Everybody but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Maatta, Letang and Fleury should be available. When even Scuderi has value guys like Perron, Bonino, Lovejoy should get you something back and they would have enough time to give guys like Simon, Pouliot and Sundqvist a long shot on the team. With like 50 games left they should use Murray as a backup and give him like 15-20 games to get a good look at him. Usually I´m pretty optimistic about this team but right now I don´t have any hopes for this season anymore.


You are right, Car is a speed team and CBJs is a heavy team. Losses to both will put the pens in good position for a lottery pick. No ifs ands or buts.
 

Empoleon8771

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Hell, if we lose these next 2 games, I'd want to see us nuke the team. If we miss the playoffs and finish any lower than like 23rd overall, I would want to see a full blown rebuild. Consider trading everyone but the young guys, Sid, Geno and Hornqvist (I think Horny would be a good role model).
 

joeyjake5

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If think if they´re going to lose vs. CAR and CBJ the season is done for the Pens and should be sellers from Tuesday on. Everybody but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Maatta, Letang and Fleury should be available. When even Scuderi has value guys like Perron, Bonino, Lovejoy should get you something back and they would have enough time to give guys like Simon, Pouliot and Sundqvist a long shot on the team. With like 50 games left they should use Murray as a backup and give him like 15-20 games to get a good look at him. Usually I´m pretty optimistic about this team but right now I don´t have any hopes for this season anymore.


You are right, Car is a speed team and CBJs is a heavy team. Losses to both will put the pens in good position for a lottery pick. No ifs ands or buts.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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First and foremost, dump the deadweight; Kunitz, Lovejoy and Cole. They're all terrible players who hurt this team now, and will hurt this team in the future.

Next, if a move is available that helps us now and for the future, trade Letang for a king's ransom, with a long-term, young, stud 1st pairing d-man+ coming back. He's no good to us hurt for 30 games a year, despite what I think about him being overrated. Maybe Anaheim would take Letang+ for Fowler, Silfverberg and a pick/prospect. Just off the top of my head, I have no idea what JR knows about asset values and teams' needs around the league, but I'd make that trade in a ****ing heartbeat.

Next, package Pouliot and Perron for a significant return. Maybe to Arizona for Boedker and a pick or prospect. Try to re-sign Boedker, as his speed and skill would be great in the top-6.

This season is over. It's been over since Johnston, Tocchet & Co. weren't fired this summer and replaced with Babcock. Hell, even before that, because of the state of this blueline.

Play youth, not to tank, but to evaluate what you have in these kids. See what kind of players they'll be at the NHL level, judge their potential, assess their importance to the team, and evaluate the kinds of moves you'll need to do in order to flesh out a roster from there. Play Wilson, Sheary, Sundqvist, Rust, and Simon. Play Murray until MAF is back, then send him down for the vast majority of starts in WBS.

Do not **** these next 18 months up, Penguins. If you do, the Cup window during the Sid and Geno era slams shut, with no hope in sight.
 

joeyjake5

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Does any one have a scouting report on Defensemen McNeil at W-B. I know he has size but is he physical or soft like the other pens D.
 

SEALBound

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So JR has been given the orders to win at all costs. Looking at the product on ice, I believe this is highly, HIGHLY dangerous for the owners to command. It's no secret they are looking to move the team. If they try to win at the expense of the future, all they are doing is putting a fancy wax job on that 67' GT500 whose tranny and engine are about to blow. If a buyer is going to put down the cheddar to buy the Penguins, somewhere around the $500mil mark I imagine, they are damn well going to do their homework. All they are going to see is a decent team right now that's going to fall right off the cliff if they destroy their future. Then it will Gen X all over again. Not exactly a great business deal if you ask me.

No, if the owners want to sell they will have to convince a rich, savvy buyer that the Penguins are good now and will be good in the future, even despite their hilarious mismanagement the last 6 years. With that, they are going have to show a pipeline of young talent that can carry the team. I think they are stuck with them for another couple of years. In that time, they need to retool, in a big way.

First, understand that their approach to roster building and winning is wrong.

Second, admit and understand that Malkin and Crosby are past their primes and can no longer single handedly propel the team to wins. They need a team around them that supports their strengths.

Third, if Sullivan is your guy, then fine. Work with him to find an identity. Build to that identity. Come to terms with the fact that this is about building a f-ing hockey team that can win. Winning is what sells tickets. Build a team to win. That may mean shipping out players that the city loves...but so be it. Sometimes new is exciting!

Fourth, evaluate the roster. See who fits the new identity and who doesn't. Make the trades needed. Be sellers at the deadline. Right now, I'm not convinced that bring up our best 5-6 WBS guys puts us in a worse position that right now...I mean really...does it?

Perron+pick for 1st @ TDL. SOMEONE will do it. With the pariety, someone will be desperate. Nashville gave up a first for Paul Guastad. We gave up a 1st for Iginla. If we add in a second or third, I think someone bites. We can replace Perron in the top 6 with Plotnikov.

Bonino for a 2nd+4th/prospect. Common return for someone like that. See Winnik, Hemsky, Petry...not unreasonable. We can replace Bonino. We have Fehr and Cullen and Sundqvist.

Letang for the best package. When he's on, he's on; when he's not...he's not. Look for a younger Top 4 dman, Top prospect or high pick. This is where a Letang+prospect for Fowler+Ritchie would be amaz-****. I would even consider Letang for Fowler+Maroon. I would also consider Letang+pick/prosp for Johansen+Rychel then flip Johansen for a top 4 dman like Seth Jones+.

Kunitz to anyone for a 3rd. Someone will take him. He's a decent vet bolster to someone's 3rd line.

Cole in a package mentioned above or for a 2nd/3rd.

Kessel. I still don't know. Not even sure who would take him to be honest...but I would explore it. I would expect a return similar to what we gave up minus Spaling. I would take 2 prospects and a 1st (no conditions).

NYR fans want Hornqvist. Wonder if we could do a Kreider+ for Hornqvist swap. Kreider is that in your face, young jam guy. Horny was that guy...but...not sure where it went. Kreider is younger and likely be cheaper too.

I would then take a prospect or two and some of the new picks we aquired and send them to Arizona for Boedker. Work ASAP on an extension. $4.5milx4yrs. Take the Ritchie/Rychel/Maroon player we get back from the Letang trade and stick him on Malkin's LW.

Boedker-Crosby-Hornqvist/Kreider
New guy-Malkin-Plotnikov/Kessel (depends on trade)
Plots/Sheary-Fehr-Bennett
Sundy-Cullen-WBS

Maatta-Trade
Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Daley-Clendening

Is that a playoff roster, no...duh. But look at the picks you have accumulated. 2 1sts, 2-3 2nds, 3-4 3rds, 4/5/6. THAT will replenish the cupboards. OR you can use that bring in players that fit the identity kinda like Buffalo did with Kane and ROR.

Then you can look to the NCAA and KHL other European leagues for UFA assets ala Plotnikov, Panarin, Tikhonov. Zaitsev is a decent sized PMD. We have the Gary Roberts connection, get him here. There are a couple other guys out there too that have flown under the radar. Worst case, they become AHL backups.

Next season you look at the group of Fowler/Jones/etc, Maatta, Dumoulin, Pouliot as the Top 4. We have plenty of bottom pairing options. Adding in Zaitsev would be just that much better. You then have size and skill on the defense. REAL puck moving ability. Young too.

In the forward group we have gotten younger, added size and snarl, and added speed.

Looking at the draft, in the 1st round with two presumable 1sts, take BPA dman or power forward. With the second, take the BPA on the other dman or power forward, depending on which you chose with the 1st pick. Use the 2nds and 3rds to either move up, trade for roster players, or simply restock.

With the new stock cupboards and couple of roster move switches and you've cut dead weight, added size, snarl, and speed and more importantly you've helped show future buyers that the team will be competitive now and years into the future. At least when you look at the pipeline there is hope rather than one and done.

If I'm the owners...I'm fixing up the house meaning, I'm replacing the worn carpet, I'm replacing appliances, and I'm rearranging furniture...not just slapping a meh paint job on the outside and trying to sell it for top dollar. Invest in this TEAM...not just this year. DON'T buy players...BUILD a roster.
 

Jag68Sid87

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The best thing that can happen now is we go on a massive losing streak. This would probably ensure we keep our first rounder next June, as well as ensure we'll be looking for a new head coach this summer. It (hopefully) would mean Rutherford won't be selling the farm again on March 1. And if he's not doing that, he probably isn't needed either.

The ONLY problem is whether Crosby and Malkin will accept going into a semi-full rebuild.

We better hope so.
 

joeyjake5

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Feb 23, 2014
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The best thing that can happen now is we go on a massive losing streak. This would probably ensure we keep our first rounder next June, as well as ensure we'll be looking for a new head coach this summer. It (hopefully) would mean Rutherford won't be selling the farm again on March 1. And if he's not doing that, he probably isn't needed either.

The ONLY problem is whether Crosby and Malkin will accept going into a semi-full rebuild.

We better hope so.


If not, trade them.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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If think if they´re going to lose vs. CAR and CBJ the season is done for the Pens and should be sellers from Tuesday on. Everybody but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Maatta, Letang and Fleury should be available. When even Scuderi has value guys like Perron, Bonino, Lovejoy should get you something back and they would have enough time to give guys like Simon, Pouliot and Sundqvist a long shot on the team. With like 50 games left they should use Murray as a backup and give him like 15-20 games to get a good look at him. Usually I´m pretty optimistic about this team but right now I don´t have any hopes for this season anymore.

You do not start "selling" with 50 games left. That said, if someone said they wanted Kunitz, I wouldn't say no. Otherwise wait until the deadline. Are the odds against us getting into the playoffs? Absolutely - we're 5 points out of a WC spot with 3 teams we'd have to leepfrog - one of whom went to the SCF last year. But you still do not start "selling" now. Players have to believe that management has faith in them and hasn't "tossed in the towel" (even if management doesn't believe). Players need something to play for.

Question on the Kessel trade. I know the 1st was conditional (thank god). So if we miss the playoffs, we keep the 16 1st and they get our 17 1st. What happens with the 2nd? Was that conditional as well?
 

td_ice

Peter shows the way
Aug 13, 2005
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Does any one have a scouting report on Defensemen McNeil at W-B. I know he has size but is he physical or soft like the other pens D.

He is our most physical dmen. Think poor man's in-his-prime Orpik.

He is just adequate defensively. I have been high on him, but I just don't think he has made enough progress in his development to be anything more than an occassinaol call up from the A.
 

Riptide

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The best thing that can happen now is we go on a massive losing streak. This would probably ensure we keep our first rounder next June, as well as ensure we'll be looking for a new head coach this summer. It (hopefully) would mean Rutherford won't be selling the farm again on March 1. And if he's not doing that, he probably isn't needed either.

The ONLY problem is whether Crosby and Malkin will accept going into a semi-full rebuild.


We better hope so.

Well it's not like what the team is doing now is working. So I do not see why they'd be really mad if the team took a step back to try and go at it from a different direction.

Pittsburgh wouldn't need to go into a full rebuild. Trade some of the vets - Kunitz, Perron, Bonino, Cole, perhaps even Daley. Then get guys like Wilson, Simon and whatnot who are doing well in the minors up here. You gut it out for the season and then look at a couple of the FA's this summer (Hamhuis, Gogo, Campbell, etc) to try and bolster the blueline, and see what's out there for forwards. Go after a couple to bolster the F ranks while leaving wiggle room for the kids to challenge for a spot and go at things again next season.

Realistically should Pittsburgh be selling most of the team (sans Crosby/Malkin)? Yes. However we all know that is not going to happen. Nor do I think it needs to. But there are things we can do to try and move on from a few vets and get some assets back for the future, while opening up the roster for younger players.
 

Riptide

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Sprong sent to juniors. I think that was without a doubt the right move. He'll have a nice little Christmas bonus though... as he's made what... 250K US (~350k CND)?
 

Waffle Fries

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Mar 7, 2013
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I'd kill for Foligno and/or Jenner. Two guys who bring a whole lot of what this team's sorely lacking.

Jackets won't trade Foligno. He's their leader, and he genuinely likes it there. I doubt they'd trade Boone for either, especially to the team they consider to be their biggest rivals, but he'd be awesome on this team. His skillset is perfect to play opposite Bennett or Kessel.
 

Riptide

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First and foremost, dump the deadweight; Kunitz, Lovejoy and Cole. They're all terrible players who hurt this team now, and will hurt this team in the future.

Next, package Pouliot and Perron for a significant return. Maybe to Arizona for Boedker and a pick or prospect. Try to re-sign Boedker, as his speed and skill would be great in the top-6.

I get wanting a better option then Lovejoy on the blueline... but he's not our issue right now. If you can get value for him, then great, trade him. But he's been more than adequate up until now while playing with Dumoulin. And it's not like we have any good options to replace him with (it would be different if we did).

As for Pouliot, trading him for a pending UFA would be a ****ing disaster - even if you get a pick or a prospect back. If anything the state of our blueline and the fact that you're looking to go with a mini-rebuild means you ****ing keep Pouliot for the next year or so and see how he does.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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The reasons we'd want to trade for Jenner are the same reasons that the Jackets wouldn't want to trade him. I'd absolutely love him here though.

If we're talking about players like that, I'd try and see if we can pull off Adam Lowry from the Jets. With Ladd's murky future, I don't know that they'd be very inclined to move him though.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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Ladd for hornqvist. We dump hornqvists cap hit and we get a better player in return thats a LW and probably fits with sid. :handclap:
 
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