Possible Trade Ideas Volume Ocho

Status
Not open for further replies.

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
:facepalm:

Dude...:facepalm:

How do you come up with some of this stuff...

Kobasew, Barker, Rupp, Powe, Poms, Heatley were trades all made to improve the team then and now instead of later at the cost of cap space and prospects/draft picks.

Heatley just had the extra benefit of getting rid of a locker room cancer.
 

forthewild

Registered User
Aug 17, 2009
4,115
0
Kobasew, Barker, Rupp, Powe, Poms, Heatley were trades all made to improve the team then and now instead of later at the cost of cap space and prospects/draft picks.

Heatley just had the extra benefit of getting rid of a locker room cancer.

Rup, Heatly and Pomminville actually seem to be able to do stuffl. Rupp was good for us this year.

Yes he's been up and down on trades, but overall as a GM he's done a pretty good job. we all though this team was in cap hell two years ago then we signed Parise AND Suter
 

DeuceMN

Really?
Oct 1, 2011
2,407
0
Chi-Town, Il
Kobasew, Barker, Rupp, Powe, Poms, Heatley were trades all made to improve the team then and now instead of later at the cost of cap space and prospects/draft picks.

Heatley just had the extra benefit of getting rid of a locker room cancer.

Pom, kind of, but his goal is immediate AS WELL as long term. Which we did need.

And you're using Heatley against him. Really dude... So you'd rather have Havlat still...ok....
 

DeuceMN

Really?
Oct 1, 2011
2,407
0
Chi-Town, Il
^ We traded what, a second for Kobasew: who cares really.

We also traded Powe for Rupp, so that just doesn't make any sense. And we got Powe for basically nothing.

What about his trade of Burns? Why aren't you mentioning this? It's only the biggest trade he has done and brought in a good amount of long term assets. It also directly refutes your entire point.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
Rup, Heatly and Pomminville actually seem to be able to do stuffl. Rupp was good for us this year.

Rupp is okay but redundant with Konopka and has a higher cap hit. Heatley, we had hoped to have a 30-40 goal scorer but he really plummeted. We took back a higher cap hit with a shorter duration. Poms is still in the air.

Yes he's been up and down on trades, but overall as a GM he's done a pretty good job. we all though this team was in cap hell two years ago then we signed Parise AND Suter

He's done a decent job at restocking our prospects. On ice, it still remains to be seen. This team shouldn't have had the breakdowns it had.

Pom, kind of, but his goal is immediate AS WELL as long term. Which we did need.

Depends. We are still going to be tight up against the cap and we'll be limited on how much we can sign Poms back IF Poms wants to stay. He could be like, screw this I want to go back out East. Or he could fail here and the Wild decide to cut him loose.

And you're using Heatley against him. Really dude... So you'd rather have Havlat still...ok....

No, I'm not using Heatley against him in a negative way. I'm saying that Fletcher's MO has been to trade future assets for short term help. There's a major difference between that and being against the trade. Stop jumping to conclusions. What I am saying is that Fletcher traded for a higher (but shorter) contract. Sacrificing some cap space now, which could have an impact later (which is coming to point). Personally I'd still do the Heatley trade but I would be cautious moving forward on adding any more bigger contracts until Heatley's expired.


^ We traded what, a second for Kobasew: who cares really.

So why not trade ALL our 2nd and 3rd round picks if they don't care? Kobasew did nothing for the Wild at all and eventually left. Fallstrom and Weller were also included in the trade (Weller was an expiring contract).

We also traded Powe for Rupp, so that just doesn't make any sense. And we got Powe for basically nothing.

So a third is basically nothing?

What about his trade of Burns? Why aren't you mentioning this? It's only the biggest trade he has done and brought in a good amount of long term assets. It also directly refutes your entire point.

Because the Burns trade is still up in the air. Setoguchi has been a flat out bust for the Wild. Two years into the trade and Seto has offered little. Phillips is taking more time to adjust and looks like a bust. And Coyle, is well, Coyle. We don't know how he's going to develop (but if we kick him out to center, this might not be good for his development).

The Pom trade actually is a lot bigger than the Burns trade. But I didn't ignore the Burns trade at all. I didn't forget the Belanger trade or the Zidlicky trade either but I'll post on that later as I don't have a lot of time right now
 

nickschultzfan

Registered User
Jan 7, 2009
11,558
908
Pominville trade is funny because people constantly complain about the lack of offensive skill on this team and Pominville is a major upgrade in that regard.
 

OpRedDawn*

Guest
Koala is right gmcf is terrible And we should fire him today and yeo and start over again
 

Billy Mays Here*

Guest
Koala is right gmcf is terrible And we should fire him today and yeo and start over again

Yep, and Parise and Suter are so bad that we should buy both of them out to get out from under those terrible contracts.
 

OpRedDawn*

Guest
We should trade them for picks and prospects. Those are more important than proven vets too
 

mezcal

Wild Complacency
Feb 19, 2013
2,999
110
CA
Trade Zucker, Granlund, Coyle, Brodin, 2nd for the first overall and greg zanon
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
Koala is right gmcf is terrible And we should fire him today and yeo and start over again

Did I ever say he was a terrible GM? Good God, you guys have no concept of patterns or trends. You would probably be the same guys that would have wanted to fire Billy Beane in Oakland.
 
Last edited:

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
Since 2009 these are all the transactions GMCF has made in regards to trade:

Kyle Brodziak and a 6th round pick for 4th and 6th Round Selection
Craig Weller, Alexander Fallstrom and a 2nd Round Pick for Chuck Kobasew
Benoit Pouiliot for Guillaume Latendresse
Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy for Cam Barker
Eric Belanger for a 2nd Round Pick
5th round Pick for Brad Staubitz
Anton Khudobin for Jeff Penner and Mikko Lehtonen
Maxim Noreau for David McIntyre
Brent Burns and a 2nd Round Pick for Charlie Coyle, Devin Setoguchi and a 1st round pick
3rd Round Pick for Darroll Powe
Martin Havlat for Dany Heatley
James Sheppard for 3rd Round Pick
Casey Wellman for Erik Christensen + 7th
Marek Zidlicky for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephanie Veilleux, 2012 2nd round Pick, 2013 Conditional Pick
Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert
Greg Zanon for Steven Kampfer
Darroll Powe and Nick Palmieri for Mike Rupp
Matt Kassian for a 2014 6th Round Pick
Chay Genoway for 7th round pick
Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, 1st Round Pick and 2nd Round Pick for Jason Pomvinille + 4th round pick

I didn't include any of the draft pick for draft pick trades.

I'll break it down later as I'm on lunch but you can really see a pattern in these trades and how they are conducted based off of what Fletcher wanted to do and what he was doing.
 
Last edited:

thedustman

Registered User
Jun 19, 2013
4,200
1,246
blues fan here...

wondering what you guys would want for Charlie Coyle?

and would you have interest in Halak or Elliott?
 

tyratoku

Registered User
May 28, 2010
7,690
52
MN
Kyle Brodziak and a 6th round pick for 4th and 6th Round Selection Win - Brodziak has been pretty darn good not counting this past season. I still see a lot in him.
Craig Weller, Alexander Fallstrom and a 2nd Round Pick for Chuck Kobasew Loss - Giving up the 2nd is what blows. The other stuff doesn't even matter. Ugh.
Benoit Pouiliot for Guillaume Latendresse Even - Probably a win, but Lats was never healthy.
Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy for Cam Barker Loss - No explanation needed here. Ugh.
Eric Belanger for a 2nd Round Pick Win - Belanger is not very good and the 2nd turned out to be Johan Larsson. Clear cut win here.
5th round Pick for Brad Staubitz Even - 5th isn't guaranteed to get an NHL player, Staubitz provided some entertainment while he was here.
Anton Khudobin for Jeff Penner and Mikko Lehtonen Even - Khudobin wasn't doing much but we could have gotten better I think. Neither guy we received amounted to anything. Inconsequential trade.
Maxim Noreau for David McIntyre Win - Noreau was not going anywhere good, and McIntyre is a decent AHL guy who is a great leader for the young players
Brent Burns and a 2nd Round Pick for Charlie Coyle, Devin Setoguchi and a 1st round pick Toss-up - If Phillips busts and Seto is traded or dumped or whatever, it's a loss.
3rd Round Pick for Darroll Powe Even - Not guaranteed to get a player in the 3rd, although the 3rd is probably too high for what Powe brought. But Powe ended up bringing Rupp, who is awesome.
Martin Havlat for Dany Heatley Win - Havlat is horrible and Heatley is serviceable.
James Sheppard for 3rd Round Pick Win - Sheppard is horrible and we got assets back
Casey Wellman for Erik Christensen + 7th Win - Wellman was doing nothing and we got a 7th back. 7th is 2013 7th
Marek Zidlicky for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephanie Veilleux, 2012 2nd round Pick, 2013 Conditional Pick Win - Veilleux does as much for our team now as Zidlicky did. 2nd turned into Raphael Bussieres. And freed up cap space to go after Zack Parise and Ryan Suter.
Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert Even - Good hockey trade. Pretty darn even.
Greg Zanon for Steven Kampfer Win - Zanon wasn't doing anything for us, isn't doing anything for anybody now, and Kampfer could still turn into a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy.
Darroll Powe and Nick Palmieri for Mike Rupp Win - Palmieri wasn't doing anything for us, and Powe was redundant. Rupp is awesome.
Matt Kassian for a 2014 6th Round Pick Even - Kassian wasn't doing anything for us and the 6th could turn into another Gustavsson, whom was drafted in the 6th in 2010.
Chay Genoway for 7th round pick Win - Genoway wasn't doing much for us and the 7th, while having unknown conditions, could turn into a Graovac.
Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, 1st Round Pick and 2nd Round Pick for Jason Pomvinille + 4th round pick Toss-up - Gave up a lot of assets and if we cannot get Pominville re-signed this is a clear loss.

Went through with my thoughts. By my judgement:

Wins - 9
Loss - 2
Even - 6
Toss up -2

He wins the marginal ones it seems but when he loses, he loses big. Ugly big. The two toss-ups(Burns and Pominville) can soon turn into really ugly losses as well.
 

Doobz89

Registered User
Apr 12, 2011
193
0
Since 2009 these are all the transactions GMCF has made in regards to trade:

Kyle Brodziak and a 6th round pick for 4th and 6th Round Selection
Craig Weller, Alexander Fallstrom and a 2nd Round Pick for Chuck Kobasew
Benoit Pouiliot for Guillaume Latendresse
Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy for Cam Barker
Eric Belanger for a 2nd Round Pick
5th round Pick for Brad Staubitz
Anton Khudobin for Jeff Penner and Mikko Lehtonen
Maxim Noreau for David McIntyre
Brent Burns and a 2nd Round Pick for Charlie Coyle, Devin Setoguchi and a 1st round pick
3rd Round Pick for Darroll Powe
Martin Havlat for Dany Heatley
James Sheppard for 3rd Round Pick
Casey Wellman for Erik Christensen + 7th
Marek Zidlicky for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephanie Veilleux, 2012 2nd round Pick, 2013 Conditional Pick
Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert
Greg Zanon for Steven Kampfer
Darroll Powe and Nick Palmieri for Mike Rupp
Matt Kassian for a 2014 6th Round Pick
Chay Genoway for 7th round pick
Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, 1st Round Pick and 2nd Round Pick for Jason Pomvinille + 4th round pick

I didn't include any of the draft pick for draft pick trades.

I'll break it down later as I'm on lunch but you can really see a pattern in these trades and how they are conducted based off of what Fletcher wanted to do and what he was doing.

I see nothing wrong with all of those trades at all except of course for the Leddy one but thats one out of many and who knows with that trade as it was right when Fletcher came in so I give I don't blame him for making that.I know at the time I was excited to get Barker but didn't know he was that big of a dog pile but every Gm makes the wrong deal every now and then. The Pominville trade is still up in the air but he did play really well for the games he had with us.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
When you analyze the Barker trade, the reasoning was sound, the execution was just horrible. Barker had put up 40 points in the NHL at one point. Minnesota thought they could get a Leddy clone from Barker without having to wait for Leddy to develop. It didn't work out.

To be the worst trade is Kobasew (redundant forward is redundant).

The rest have turned out to be mediocre. From all those trades, we have what to show?
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,318
1,618
Warning: Long Post Ahead

Kyle Brodziak and a 6th round pick for 4th and 6th Round Selection
Verdict: Win
Analysis: This was the very definition of winning a trade. They took a medium and low asset and moved it for a guy GMCF was comfortable with. Brodziak has been a steady producer for Minnesota and has filled in the top-9 nicely. This is Fletcher moving a future asset (4th/6th) for a short term asset (Brodziak). In this case, it worked out great for Fletcher as the short term asset turned into long term asset that has contributed to the team.

Craig Weller, Alexander Fallstrom and a 2nd Round Pick for Chuck Kobasew
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: Following the Brodziak trade is probably Fletcher's worse (or 2nd worse) trade of all time. Chuck Kobasew made little impact on the team and to make matters worse, he walked at the end of his contract. Fletcher again tried to address short term problems with long term assets. In this case a medium asset (and regardless if Fallstrom makes it or not (and I've heard a lot of positive reviews for Fallstrom)) and a high asset along with a low asset for a top - 9 winger that did nothing for the Wild and was essentially a short term solution.

Benoit Pouiliot for Guillaume Latendresse
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: Pouliot was a major bust for Minnesota. And while we got some value for him Lats really didn't do anything for Minnesota and walked at the end of his contract. This was the quintessential bust for bust to try and see if something work. Neither Minnesota or Montreal got anything back of value.

Kim Johnsson and Nick Leddy for Cam Barker
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: While most chalk this up to Fletcher's worse trade, I don't see it as that. Again it's long term assets with high value for short term problem. I see that Fletcher thought he could turn Barker into Leddy without waiting too long for Leddy to develop. It's just too bad Barker sucks and could never adapt to the new NHL. We had to buy out Barker.

Eric Belanger for a 2nd Round Pick
Verdict: Win
Analysis: Huge win for Minnesota. Belanger didn't want to come back and Minnesota got high value for him. This is the opposite of what Fletcher has done. He got great value for an UFA and something a good team can identify.

5th round Pick for Brad Staubitz
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: Terrible trade. Yes, we traded a low value asset but Staubitz did what exactly here? Fletcher again saw a problem (toughness) and used a long term asset to address a short term need. Staubitz walked at the end of his contract and San Jose actually got a gem of a prospect in Freddie Hamilton. We had to go out and grab Konopka.

Anton Khudobin for Jeff Penner and Mikko Lehtonen
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: Khudobin was never going to make it. With Hackett on his way, Backstrom and Harding firmly entrenched (and healthy), Khudobin was looking more and more like a guy on the move. Not to mention, he had a contract coming up. Boston got a solid backup but Minnesota had really no choice. They didn't get really any value for Khudobin as Penner and Lehtonen never made it. But they didn't lose either because well they at least got something for Khudobin and they needed to move him.

Maxim Noreau for David McIntyre
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: Do I really need to?

Brent Burns and a 2nd Round Pick for Charlie Coyle, Devin Setoguchi and a 1st round pick
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: San Jose got either a budding power forward or a top 3 defenseman. Minnesota got a budding power forward, a notoriously streaky top 6 winger and a 1st round pick. Minnesota got great value from San Jose for a great defenseman and again was opposite of what they normally do, though they had little options with Burns up for a contract the next year and time running out on extending him before the season began. They didn't necessarily win this trade as they created a major hole on defense and Setoguchi continued to regress.

3rd Round Pick for Darroll Powe
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: Medium value used to address a short term need (again toughness) and didn't utilize the guy right. We thought that Powe and Clutterbuck could become the next bash brothers but Powe never really caught on and eventually was traded for Rupp. Powe made little impact to the organization.

Martin Havlat for Dany Heatley
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: Havlat sucked. He was whiny. He was a primadonna and injury prone. The guy injured himself on a shift change. Heatley is a great guy. But he's slow. And his goal scoring isn't there anymore. Plus he has an enormous cap hit when we got him, limiting some options. This was a win-win trade. Minnesota got a great locker room guy and Sharks got a guy with some speed and some offense but very injury prone. Minnesota though took on some short term repercussions from this trade (which they could afford to).

James Sheppard for 3rd Round Pick
Verdict: Win
Analysis: As much as Minnesota fans complain about Sheppard, Minnesota failed him. The fans failed him. The team failed him. Everyone failed him. Now, that's not to say Sheppard didn't have a hand in this. He did. It was just a messy situation all around. The fact we got a 3rd means we won.

Casey Wellman for Erik Christensen + 7th
Verdict: Win
Analysis: Wellman was free, so getting anything back for him was a win. Even a low asset like a 7th round pick.

Marek Zidlicky for Kurtis Foster, Nick Palmieri, Stephanie Veilleux, 2012 2nd round Pick, 2013 Conditional Pick
Verdict: Win
Analysis: This is my favorite trade. Zids was a cancer and was a sore loser. Minnesota got excellent value for him, including 1 high value and 1 medium value asset back. This goes against Fletcher's usual MO but he had to do something with Zids and the fact that we got back some great value makes it better.

Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert
Verdict: Draw
Analysis: See Havlat/Heatley. We took on a slightly higher cap hit for a different type of defenseman. I know the hip thing to do is hate on Schultz but he was a steady top 4 defenseman for us in this system. He had his value. Gilbert has the same value but at a higher price. It was a good, risky move but we didn't really win or lose with this trade.

Greg Zanon for Steven Kampfer
Verdict: Win
Analysis: See the Belanger trade. Solid value for Zanon, even though I'm not big on Kampfer. He's at least a prospect and has some upside.

Darroll Powe and Nick Palmieri for Mike Rupp
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: Minnesota was in a bind to open up another contract slot, so they had to move someone. Palmieri wanted to leave as well. Rupp might be a good player but his cap hit is a bit higher than Powe's and really the bottom 6? He offers a bit of sandpaper but I don't see him really staying with Minnesota or doing anything. The fact he had a higher cap hit than Powe makes it a loss, even though Rupp made some minimal impact to the organization this year.

Matt Kassian for a 2014 6th Round Pick
Verdict: Win
Analysis: Kassian was on the waiver wire, so getting anything back for him was great.

Chay Genoway for 7th round pick
Verdict: win
Analysis: Same with Genoway.

Matt Hackett, Johan Larsson, 1st Round Pick and 2nd Round Pick for Jason Pomvinille + 4th round pick
Verdict: Loss
Analysis: You know this by now.

---
Looking over this, Fletcher has made very minor trades, resulting in a positive impact to the organization, turning in low value assets for future low value assets that have the potential to become high value assets. However, when Fletcher has made major trades, he sacrifices some long term flexibility and assets for short term gains, even if the net value is positive; IE Brodziak and Heatley. Looking at this trades, many of the wins were due to negative impacts to the organization (Burns contract, Zids and Havlat wanting to leave the organization) or when this team decides to dump UFA. However, when Fletcher 'panics' (sorry but there is no other good way of putting it) due to whatever reason (season starting to tank, playoffs on the line), this is when he loses value on his trades.

Going back to my comment about Zucker for Bernier. Looking at some of Fletcher's trades, you can see a pattern emerge and as such I wouldn't be surprise (hence laughing) if Fletcher decides to trade Zucker for Bernier. Why?

1) The market for goaltenders is very inflated as there is no goaltender out there that is a long term starter. Bernier is pretty young as well.
2) With the market inflated, prices will be inflated. Simple economics of supply and demand. The rumors from Philadelphia and New York have ranged from Martin and a 1st to Schenn to Read to whatever. The price is pretty high at this point
3) Minnesota have very little assets to work with, except for an abundance of top 6 wingers.
4) With Poms and Seto already here, Fletcher might see it as a net gain to get rid of Zucker for Bernier, IF that means pushing the team deep into the playoffs.
 

BigT2002

Registered User
Dec 6, 2006
16,309
238
Somwhere
I'm not going into the whole verdict of what Fletcher has done. I will simply say that the man at least is making the effort to make waves and keep the lockeroom on its toes to play to the best of their ability. Outside of the golden core, no one is safe. Seto was being shopped around at the beginning of the season simply because he was snakebitten. Soon as Cullen and him started playing together they got the chemistry going and Zucker just added to it.

You have to take risks on trades in order to hopefully improve the team. Ask Pittsburgh how that worked out for them when they basically gave up a lot of **** just to get Morrow and Iginla on bandaid trades.
 

rynryn

Reluctant Optimist. Permanently Déclassé.
May 29, 2008
33,359
3,413
Minny
TSK appears to be using hindsight to make a verdict on the Larsson/Pommer trade (which would have been a clear win had pommer been healthy and bolstered our offense) while ignoring it in the Heatley and Havlat trade, which is a very clear win for us considering Havlat has done ****all in SJ and has one extra year on his contract while the idea behind the trade for us was to have a shorter commitment on the books with hopefully a wash at productivity (nevermind improving the team dynamic, which you mentioned). We absolutely without question won that one. when it was made it was a draw. hindsight, we won.
 

Jarick

Doing Nothing
TSK, I think you're drawing conclusions and then finding evidence to support it. I'm probably the only other one on these boards who questions Fletcher as a GM, but I can't get myself worked up on those little trades.

Kobasew for a 2nd was brutal, but dumping Belanger for a 2nd voids it. The little 4th liner swaps, who cares. AHL swaps, who cares.

Pominville/Larsson I don't think will ever be more than a possibly good trade for need, because I don't think Larsson's ceiling is low enough to make it a steal for us. Larsson, the 1st, the 2nd, and Hackett would all have to bust for us to win that trade. I don't see all of that happening.

On the other hand, Pominville getting injured, Wild missing the playoffs, and Pominville either not re-signing or re-signing for too much money and then getting hurt or not producing are IMO much more likely to happen.

For me, there's limited win potential in the trade and real lose potential, which is why I still don't like it. And there's nothing anyone can say this summer to make me change my mind on the trade. We have to let it play out and see what happens. Which is why I'm done trying to talk about the trade.

At this point, there's going to be no change in the front office or coaching staff, so there's no point harping about it in my mind.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad