Possible return of the Quebec Nordiques?

[Habsaku]

That you seem to think you have such an easy and obvious answer to a vey complex problem should tell you that either your assumptions are wrong or your understanding of the problem is wrong. I can tell you though that you are wrong on both counts.

You have the very wrong and very simple assumption that fan interest is the only thing that matters in success of a hockey team, and that is wrong. You also base your understanding of fan interest in Houston on how their AHL team does, and that is wrong.

But go ahead and keep telling us how Quebec City, a town which has all the population and business power of a suburb to a major city in Texas, is a better investment. I know I'll take a city like Houston any day if I'm an owner. More potential for future growth, more business interest, better tax situation, cheaper arena lease, more people to buy merchandising, more of everything. Or, I could go to Quebec City where what I have on day one is the best it'll ever get.


It's cheaper to do business here in the US. They don't have to sell out to survive.


Help? Sure, but not help from the NHL. Help in the form of paying much less in taxes every year. Help in the form of cheaply built arenas with cheap leases. Help in the form of a better exchange rate. Help in the form of more corporate money. The league doesn't need to help.

Quebec can be a viable business. The province has the lower income taxes for corporations in all of Canada, most dont even pay. If they also decide to lobby the government, they can get a lot of advantages the Canadiens dont have, such as low property taxes and funding of a new arena. After that, it also becomes a good touristic venue,wether its for enterainment like the Bell centre or to attract people.(I heard of a story yesterday on 110%; a New York reporter asked his boss to let him see the Habs-Nords game because one of them was playing the rags the next day, but actually, he wanted to go to Quebec because it had great food and was one of the nicest place in NA). Nevermind the fact that Canada is already a very stable place for hockey now with the yearly profits by canadian teams(other then Ottawa last year) and the quick growth of the Canadian dollar. The Nordiques would very much sell at least 16000 seats a game, at the very least wether they are horrible or not. Right there, you have a good chance of viability with the new system. Marcel Aubut is also a smart business man and if he can get Laliberté to join like he is saying, then all that will be needed is a new Arena. Having teams in Winnipeg and Quebec can in no way hurt the NHL. The sad thing is it will happen with relocation, but having lived it, its not that bad when the city doesnt support the team. Las Vegas and Houston can also be good markets(as proven by the Stars), but I'd rather see Canada get back the teams it deserves.

 

[kdb209]

Glendale is not Phoenix Admiral and new arena see Houston/proposed Sprint Center in KC/MTS Center in Winnipeg replacing the Jets' home

Glendale Arena was scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out; America West was among the worst/if not the worst arena to watch hockey in.

Glendale is not Phoenix, just like Kanata is not Ottawa, so what's your point - it's still part of the Phoenix area.

And the Glendale Arena was not "scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out". It actually opened in late December 2003, and the Coyotes played over half the 2003-04 season there before the lockout.

I agree, thought, that the America West Arena was a dump. It was never designed for hockey - in order to squeeze in the rink it had to extend under the upper bowl on one end, so half the upper bowl had obstructed view seats. In some seats you couldn't see half the ice.

 

[kdb209]

Try again. My last post never made it.

Glendale is not Phoenix Admiral and new arena see Houston/proposed Sprint Center in KC/MTS Center in Winnipeg replacing the Jets' home

Glendale Arena was scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out; America West was among the worst/if not the worst arena to watch hockey in.

Glendale is not Phoenix, just like Kanata is not Ottawa, so what's your point - it's still part of the Phoenix area.

And the Glendale Arena was not "scheduled to open last year until the prime tenants(the Coyotes) were locked out". It actually opened in late December 2003, and the Coyotes played over half the 2003-04 season there before the lockout.

I agree, thought, that the America West Arena was a dump. It was never designed for hockey - in order to squeeze in the rink it had to extend under the upper bowl on one end, so half the upper bowl had obstructed view seats. In some seats you couldn't see half the ice.

 

[jester099]

Well said

It says blush.... It looks like I'm gonna be sick or something...

 

[Troy McClure]

Las Vegas and Houston can also be good markets(as proven by the Stars), but I'd rather see Canada get back the teams it deserves.

And that sums up this whole thread. Why do they deserve it more? You already have access to great junior hockey and lots of NHL hockey on TV. Quit hogging all the hockey.

 

[jester099]

And that sums up this whole thread. Why do they deserve it more? You already have access to great junior hockey and lots of NHL hockey on TV. Quit hogging all the hockey.

I don't think it's a question of who deserves it...

Do I think it would be better for the league ? Yes, but the teams are not given or awarded... they're bought...

 

[baston]

As for the local buzz during the 2002 Cup Finals ... I've been in Raleigh for 8 NCAA Men's Basketball National championships (between Duke, NC State and UNC) and the interest level on the street was remarkably similar. I think you might have been viewing proceedings through Quebec-colored glasses.

I said there was a buzz but nothing like it is in here. You people just don't seem to get it. I've been in the U.S and I've seen what it is like in many cities. Have you ever been to Quebec City?

"Oh, there's a war in Irak? Who cares, Theodore has a new ear ring, we got our first page. "

Yeah, I'm kidding, but not that much. Habs are getting probably 2 or 3 first pages in the newspaper every weeks. In the playoffs, every game is THE big news.

In the States, you have football, baseball, basketball, nascar, etc. Here, we care about hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, football, baseball. It's that simple. Really, do they even talk about hockey at ESPN? If you watch Sports 30 (french version of Sportcenter), you get about 25 minutes of hockey news and 5 minutes for the rest.

Hockey is a religion up here. Maurice Richard gets more love than God and José Theodore would be prime minister if he'd leave hockey for politic. It is pretty stupid, but that's the way it has always been. Hockey played a very, very major part in our history and the definition of our culture in Quebec and in Canada as a whole.

 

[baston]

And that sums up this whole thread. Why do they deserve it more? You already have access to great junior hockey and lots of NHL hockey on TV. Quit hogging all the hockey.

Quit hogging all the football, basketball, baseball, etc.?

I don't get your point.

 

[Sotnos]

On the other hands, I couldn't help to notice Tampa needed Hulk Hogan to attract people to hockey games in the playoffs, or that Jay Feaster needed to go wash the car of people to sell them 10 tickets...

So sorry I missed this one before, you're so far off it's not worth correcting you.

Your username is very apt.

 

[futurcorerock]

This pretty much should sum up the NHL's stance on the issue:

If the NHL were in the business of making favors (as the Quebec/Winnipeg relocations sound like they'll end up being), The Leafs wouldn't have a curse, the Canucks would've already had a cup, and the Senators would finally make it out of the conference finals.

Point being: The NHL isn't in the business of making favors? Why? Because those same favors hurt business.

 

[Tb0ne]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2006

Here are some names to consider before you go and suggest Carolina:

24 Buffalo
25 New Jersey
26 Nashville
27 St. Louis
28 Anaheim
29 NY Islanders
30 Washington

Or teams to consider before you mention Florida:

20 Phoenix
21 Chicago
22 Atlanta
23 Carolina
24 Buffalo
25 New Jersey
26 Nashville
27 St. Louis
28 Anaheim
29 NY Islanders
30 Washington

 

[futurcorerock]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2006

Here are some names to consider before you go and suggest Carolina:

24 Buffalo
25 New Jersey
26 Nashville
27 St. Louis
28 Anaheim
29 NY Islanders
30 Washington

Or teams to consider before you mention Florida:

20 Phoenix
21 Chicago
22 Atlanta
23 Carolina
24 Buffalo
25 New Jersey
26 Nashville
27 St. Louis
28 Anaheim
29 NY Islanders
30 Washington

I've already listed this link, and you should be using capacity percentages, because the way you've ranked them doesn't consider the capacity of the arena in general, hence why Montreal is #1 (20k compared to the league average of 16)

 

[Habsaku]

I've already listed this link, and you should be using capacity percentages, because the way you've ranked them doesn't consider the capacity of the arena in general, hence why Montreal is #1 (20k compared to the league average of 16)

Montreal have sold out every home game up to now.

And that sums up this whole thread. Why do they deserve it more? You already have access to great junior hockey and lots of NHL hockey on TV. Quit hogging all the hockey

You have access to NCAA hockey as well as any hockey you want with Centre Ice. Canada has a long tradition of Hockey, much like the US with Baseball and Football. You basically ensure yourself of fan following by putting a team in Canada and you basically ensure yourself of great regionnal TV ratings. New York and Boston are great hockey markets but even they dont compare to any Canadian market in terms of fan following. Its obvious bias theres no doubt about it, I enjoy much more watching Canadian teams, even the Leafs over US teams(except Atlanta).

 

[Artyukhin*]

I don't think it's a question of who deserves it...

Do I think it would be better for the league ? Yes, but the teams are not given or awarded... they're bought...

i missed the montreal vs quebec pure hate for one another
the bench brawls etc there was alot of emotion when we played


Apr. 20

1984
Apr. 20
Montreal 5 vs Quebec 3

Adams Div. Final, game #6

Teams end the 2nd with a bench-clearer and start the 3rd with another! 248 penalty minutes!



those were the days

 

[jester099]

This pretty much should sum up the NHL's stance on the issue:

If the NHL were in the business of making favors (as the Quebec/Winnipeg relocations sound like they'll end up being), The Leafs wouldn't have a curse, the Canucks would've already had a cup, and the Senators would finally make it out of the conference finals.

Point being: The NHL isn't in the business of making favors? Why? Because those same favors hurt business.

Nobody asks for favors.

I just think some people misjudge the desire, the possibility and the commitment of the business comunity in QC to bring a team back.

You say, it won't get done because it's not good business, I'm saying they are trying to because they care and they want Hockey back in QC. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Nobody knows for sure if they'll manage it, but if it doesn't get done, it won't be for lack of trying.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

I'd love to see a team in Quebec once again.

 

[Troy McClure]

New York and Boston are great hockey markets but even they dont compare to any Canadian market in terms of fan following.

That's sweet.

The NFL also could relocate a bunch of their not so wealthy teams to fan crazy places like Midland, TX. Sure, the team and league won't bring in as much money, but the fans care so much about the game. They'd sell out their tiny stadium every game and even would get Jim's Hamburger Shack to sponsor the team. Won't it be fun!

 

[Gnashville]

That's sweet.

The NFL also could relocate a bunch of their not so wealthy teams to fan crazy places like Midland, TX. Sure, the team and league won't bring in as much money, but the fans care so much about the game. They'd sell out their tiny stadium every game and even would get Jim's Hamburger Shack to sponsor the team. Won't it be fun!

 

[futurcorerock]

Nobody asks for favors.

I just think some people misjudge the desire, the possibility and the commitment of the business comunity in QC to bring a team back.

You say, it won't get done because it's not good business, I'm saying they are trying to because they care and they want Hockey back in QC. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Nobody knows for sure if they'll manage it, but if it doesn't get done, it won't be for lack of trying.

I think it's not against QC, but they're like #5 on the priority list of expansion.

Even when you consider immediate team movements, they aren't on the radar. Kansas City is building, Houston will be building, and even Winnipeg has something in the works.

Hopes and dreams don't build arenas, investors with deep pockets do

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Nobody asks for favors.

I just think some people misjudge the desire, the possibility and the commitment of the business comunity in QC to bring a team back.

You say, it won't get done because it's not good business, I'm saying they are trying to because they care and they want Hockey back in QC. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Nobody knows for sure if they'll manage it, but if it doesn't get done, it won't be for lack of trying.

Jester:

then how come ppl in Quebec City supported the QMJHL Remparts more so than ntreal's affiliate when both had games @ Le Colisee and basically forced the Canadiens to leave Quebec FOR THEIR Prospects that are now in Hamilton.

 

[puckhead103*]

Right now, if a city has to be choosen for a hockey team, between Winnipeg and Quebec, it would be clearly Winnipeg, because they have actually a decent arena.

Maybe Marcel Aubut is trying to make people from Quebec realize that if they want a NHL team again, they may have one chance but only one. So they have to react quickly with the arena issue.

i don't know about that.......with a provincial government (and local too) who are against using tax money to fund rich owners and players.....its gonna be a long climb up in quebec.....

 

[Rob]

Over the past ten years the NHL has dropped in popularity in the US. The sought after cable deal was the main goal for expansion to the south. That cable deal is further away than ever. Americans are no more interested in the NHL than they were a decade ago. While some will argue that it is too soon to judge I think that so far the experiment has been a failure.

P.S-With the exception of Dallas.

 

[jester099]

Jester:

then how come ppl in Quebec City supported the QMJHL Remparts more so than ntreal's affiliate when both had games @ Le Colisee and basically forced the Canadiens to leave Quebec FOR THEIR Prospects that are now in Hamilton.

Because the hatred goes on... any true fan of hockey in QC won't support players that have anything to do with the Canadiens...

Same can be said for Montrealers...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Because the hatred goes on... any true fan of hockey in QC won't support players that have anything to do with the Canadiens...

Same can be said for Montrealers...

You just hit it as to why hockey won't return to Quebec City Jester

 

[PEli*]

There are more pro hockey teams in Texas than all of Canada, so spare me your ignorant BS.

Such a laughable statement. What exactly does that mean? It doesn't mean hockey is more important to Texans than it is to Canadians. It doesn't mean there are more people interested in hockey in Texas than in Canada. It doesn't mean anything. I'd say that it means as much as something like...

There are probably more peewee teams in Ontario than there are teams in Texas. What does that mean to Texas? Nothing.

Why doesn't the NHL focus on the current struggling markets instead of installing new ones? Even if they aren't going to explore new markets in the South at this point in time, we know they'll do it eventually. Be it Houtson, Las Vegas or wherever. Why bother? Install a working product in your current problem cities before trying to find some sucker investors to pay another multi million dollar franchise fee.

Stick to what you know will work. I don't care if Portland has 2,000,000 people. Or if Houston has the same. I don't care if QC is just shy of 700k. There's only room for 18k in an arena anyway. All three markets will succeed for a while. QC will make the most of it. Local investors? What Canadian teams rely on local investors now? Maybe Edmonton. The local investors are the ones sitting in the seats every single night.