OT: Possible NBA Team In Pittsburgh

edog37

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
6,085
1,633
Pittsburgh
Every now & then this gets kicked around & the same holds true each time. Pittsburgh is a hockey & football town, not a basketball town. Who would own the team? Who would be willing to pay the Pens to be second fiddle at PPG? It's really a non-starter....
 

Hockey4Lyfe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
6,722
4,213
I don't know if you know this, but literally every city in the United States with an NFL team is a "football town" where fans of the football team far outnumber fans of the non-football teams. Other teams manage to survive, though, through the right combination of team success, area demographics, and area income.

It would have been helpful if you read the original post that I was responding to.

They said that Pittsburgh isn’t even a football town anymore.
 

Rich Nixon

No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
Jul 11, 2006
14,992
19,028
Key Biscayne
It would have been helpful if you read the original post that I was responding to.

They said that Pittsburgh isn’t even a football town anymore.

I did, apologies if that didn't come off. Really, in every city NFL will be #1 with the rest of the city's teams alternating between 2-3-4 (if there are 4) depending on how good they are. Pens are Pittsburgh's clear #2 now, with the Pirates lagging. Obviously hasn't always been that way and it might change in 400 years when the Buccos are competitive again. The one exception might be LA, where football just kinda showed up again. But you watch it happen in different towns, the Sixers suddenly became Philadelphia's #2 team after being #4 for at least 5 years.

But yeah, every town is a football town, and Pittsburgh is the football-est town of them all.
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
6,937
7,719
The Pittsburgh market brings nothing new to the NBA. Cities like Seattle, Kansas City, even Louisville, have more of an argument.

Pittsburgh is down the list for NBA expansion.
 

GuinosWin71

Registered User
Mar 18, 2008
332
7
If Amazon chooses Pittsburgh there will be a large enough demographic with money and youth to support a fourth professional sports team. It becomes likely in fact.

Otherwise I doubt it.

My thoughts exactly. But if I still lived there, no thanks. I'd still support them though or become a fair-weather fan.

I can walk to the Orlando magic arena, but have never been to a game. Orlando Solar Bears are a nice treat though.
 

DeadPuckEra

Registered User
Dec 19, 2014
1,298
670
Pittsburgh is, and will be for the foreseeable future, a football town.

Steelers fans FAR outnumber Penguin/Pirate fans.

Did you read what I said? I said it’s no longer just a football town to people younger than the baby boomer generation.

You’re wrong.

Look at the market studies done over the past decade. The Pens and pirates have a stranglehold on the 35 and under crowd. It doesn’t mean none of them are Steeler fans, virtually everyone in this town roots for any team here - it’s just that the older generation once scoffed at hockey and baseball - where as the current consumer is attending all 3 venues, and has been.

Additionally, Pittsburgh has become a hotbed for hockey at the youth levels. Baseball has been healthy here for a long time as well. Football participation - declining. Though that’s more due to the risk involved, I will say that.

I live here. I know.
 
Last edited:

ziggyjoe212

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
3,039
2,359
Did you read what I said? I said it’s no longer just a football town to people younger than the baby boomer generation.

You’re wrong.

Look at the market studies done over the past decade. The Pens and pirates have a stranglehold on the 35 and under crowd. It doesn’t mean none of them are Steeler fans, virtually everyone in this town roots for any team here - it’s just that the older generation once scoffed at hockey and baseball - where as the current consumer is attending all 3 venues, and has been.

I live here. I know.
I know literally one person under the age of 40 who follows the Pirates. According to studies the average baseball viewer is ~20+ years older than the average basketball and hockey fan. Baseball is 100% is not a young people sport.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
What hockey fans don't realize is that Gary Bettman is an oddity. It's been a mission of sorts for him to put the NHL in strange markets and then exhibit patience as the franchise is non-viable for decades in the hopes that it eventually gains a foothold somewhere along the way. Sometimes this works (San Jose, Nashville). Sometimes it doesn't (Arizona).

Other sports commissioners don't think this way. They'll give an economically non-viable franchise a few years, then just sign off on a move if the grass on the other side of the hill looks a little greener. They don't take ownership of a failing franchise and refuse to sell it to anyone who seeks relocation, as Bettman has done. They don't nix a sale on suspicion that the buyer might want to take it to another city some day, as Bettman has also done.

It took the NHL about 20 years to get traction in Pittsburgh--and Pittsburgh had a hockey tradition on day 1 in the form of the quite-popular Hornets. The Hornets following was big enough that it caught the Red Wings' attention. The Wings used to fly in and play exhibitions here.

Pittsburgh has no such tradition of showing interest in professional basketball teams. The Condors played before empty venues--and most of its fans are probably dead. It stands to reason it would take even longer for an NBA club to become viable (another problem is that their arena revenue would be minimal, since they wouldn't be the primary tenant unless Burkle and Mario owned them).

If you put an NBA franchise in Pittsburgh, it would be relocated to another city many years before it would have an opportunity to gain a following of sufficient size to sustain it.
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,742
S. Pasadena, CA
The appetite for the NBA in Pittsburgh, in my experience, borders the line between non-existent and hostile against.

The market just isn't large enough to have four teams, nor is there an appetite for that to change. Maybe down the road if the city suddenly starts growing...but nah. They'd be a distant fourth in the market for at least as long as the Penguins were a distant third.
 

Hockey4Lyfe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
6,722
4,213
Did you read what I said? I said it’s no longer just a football town to people younger than the baby boomer generation.

You’re wrong.

Look at the market studies done over the past decade. The Pens and pirates have a stranglehold on the 35 and under crowd. It doesn’t mean none of them are Steeler fans, virtually everyone in this town roots for any team here - it’s just that the older generation once scoffed at hockey and baseball - where as the current consumer is attending all 3 venues, and has been.

Additionally, Pittsburgh has become a hotbed for hockey at the youth levels. Baseball has been healthy here for a long time as well. Football participation - declining. Though that’s more due to the risk involved, I will say that.

I live here. I know.

I love the tidbit of “I live here”. I know”.

The Steelers will always reign in Pittsburgh just because of how much popular the NFL is compared to the rest of the sports.

Just because people watch hockey and baseball doesn’t mean that it makes the town a non football town.

A simple majority would make this a football town to me. Just because a major city offers other viewing opportunities or have good teams doesn’t make them a non football town.

The Steelers could go on a 20 year losing streak and if you asked anyone about Pittsburgh sports, a majority would bring up the Steelers first.

Oh, and I live in Pittsburgh, also.
 

madinsomniac

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
12,854
3,022
Pittsburgh, Pa
Pittsburgh is too small of a city and region to support four major pro teams.

This is far from true... the NBA has been desperatly trying to worm their way in here for decades... its been reported as a top 3 relocation/expansion concept every time they are talking about moving a team...

Pittsburgh, as a city, is tiny... but it also didnt absorb the surrounding cities in it's county like every other major city has... Allegheny County... which is the land mass size of a lot of other cities like Philly, is the 31st largest county in the country... the surrounding western PA market adds an additional 2 to 3 million people and makes it an extremely desirable location..

The NBA has tried to prep Pittsburgh for the NBA for years... often hosting preseason games and other incentives to draw in the population, but every attempt has fallen just short... supposedly Silver is very high on making it happen in the next decade or so... we will see...

My bet is if it happens, the current ownership of the Pens is somehow involved.... they tried to make a play for the pirates once...
 

Hockey4Lyfe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
6,722
4,213
I love the tidbit of “I live here”. I know”.

The Steelers will always reign in Pittsburgh just because of how much popular the NFL is compared to the rest of the sports.

Just because people watch hockey and baseball doesn’t mean that it makes the town a non football town.

A simple majority would make this a football town to me. Just because a major city offers other viewing opportunities or have good teams doesn’t make them a non football town.

The Steelers could go on a 20 year losing streak and if you asked anyone about Pittsburgh sports, a majority would bring up the Steelers first.

Oh, and I live in Pittsburgh, also.

Also, almost every person over the age of 50, I know, is a major football and PIRATE fan. I’m not sure where you are getting that the older generation scoffed at baseball? The Pirates were actually relevant 20-30 years ago.

For every Pens/Pirate fan I know, I know 5 more that live in the city or around the country that are die hard Steelers fans.
 

Hockey4Lyfe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
6,722
4,213
And just because football is king in Pittsburgh doesn’t mean I’m putting down or saying there isn’t a ton of support for other sports here in Pittsburgh.

All I am saying is that viewership wise and the amount of fans, Steelers are way ahead of the Pens and Pirates. That’s because football is such a more popular sport.

Here’s an article to back that up.

Steelers vs Penguins - Pens win Stanley Cup, but Steelers Still King
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
This is far from true... the NBA has been desperatly trying to worm their way in here for decades... its been reported as a top 3 relocation/expansion concept every time they are talking about moving a team...

Pittsburgh, as a city, is tiny... but it also didnt absorb the surrounding cities in it's county like every other major city has... Allegheny County... which is the land mass size of a lot of other cities like Philly, is the 31st largest county in the country... the surrounding western PA market adds an additional 2 to 3 million people and makes it an extremely desirable location..

The NBA has tried to prep Pittsburgh for the NBA for years... often hosting preseason games and other incentives to draw in the population, but every attempt has fallen just short... supposedly Silver is very high on making it happen in the next decade or so... we will see...

My bet is if it happens, the current ownership of the Pens is somehow involved.... they tried to make a play for the pirates once...

You're right that Pittsburgh is not as small as people think it is. But there aren't 31 cities in this country that can support 4 sports franchises. I don't know if there are even 20, with Pittsburgh definitely not being among them.

Silver would be smarter to abandon the Fool's Gold--and that's what this market is for the NBA--he sees in Western PA and pay attention to the NHL's preliminary success in Las Vegas. Pittsburgh can't support 4 teams, but if Vegas does end up being able to support 1, it might be able to support 2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big McLargehuge

ziggyjoe212

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
3,039
2,359
What hockey fans don't realize is that Gary Bettman is an oddity. It's been a mission of sorts for him to put the NHL in strange markets and then exhibit patience as the franchise is non-viable for decades in the hopes that it eventually gains a foothold somewhere along the way. Sometimes this works (San Jose, Nashville). Sometimes it doesn't (Arizona).

Other sports commissioners don't think this way. They'll give an economically non-viable franchise a few years, then just sign off on a move if the grass on the other side of the hill looks a little greener. They don't take ownership of a failing franchise and refuse to sell it to anyone who seeks relocation, as Bettman has done. They don't nix a sale on suspicion that the buyer might want to take it to another city some day, as Bettman has also done.

It took the NHL about 20 years to get traction in Pittsburgh--and Pittsburgh had a hockey tradition on day 1 in the form of the quite-popular Hornets. The Hornets following was big enough that it caught the Red Wings' attention. The Wings used to fly in and play exhibitions here.

Pittsburgh has no such tradition of showing interest in professional basketball teams. The Condors played before empty venues--and most of its fans are probably dead. It stands to reason it would take even longer for an NBA club to become viable (another problem is that their arena revenue would be minimal, since they wouldn't be the primary tenant unless Burkle and Mario owned them).

If you put an NBA franchise in Pittsburgh, it would be relocated to another city many years before it would have an opportunity to gain a following of sufficient size to sustain it.
Hockey didn't exist in the south until the NHL came there, now it's thriving in those places. Expanding the national audience is the best thing the NHL has ever done. It didn't work in Phoenix and Atl because the team was always bad. If coyotes ever field a good team with a great player they'll become just as popular as the Preds.
Nashville, S Cali, Dallas, Raleigh, San Jose, Tampa have truly embraced the team and the sport when the teams are doing well.

But I agree there are several options better for the NBA than Pittsburgh. Seattle should be #1 on that list. KC and St. Louis would also be better options due to less pro sports competition.
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,593
10,401
Did you read what I said? I said it’s no longer just a football town to people younger than the baby boomer generation.

You’re wrong.

Look at the market studies done over the past decade. The Pens and pirates have a stranglehold on the 35 and under crowd. It doesn’t mean none of them are Steeler fans, virtually everyone in this town roots for any team here - it’s just that the older generation once scoffed at hockey and baseball - where as the current consumer is attending all 3 venues, and has been.

Additionally, Pittsburgh has become a hotbed for hockey at the youth levels. Baseball has been healthy here for a long time as well. Football participation - declining. Though that’s more due to the risk involved, I will say that.

I live here. I know.
The Pens have been challenging for Cups every year over the last decade, though. There's no question Pittsburgh will support a winning team. The question is if they have built up enough of a base that they can sustain the support even if they suck. We likely won't know the answer to that until Crosby and Malkin retire.

The Pirates haven't. Even with the spike in attendance when they were making the playoffs, they were still middle of the pack. Pre and post those teams, they are near or at the bottom.
 

madinsomniac

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
12,854
3,022
Pittsburgh, Pa
I know the Pittsburgh perspective of this, but the fans of hockey here don't realize that when the Pens aren't playing, nba games here routinely decimate nhl games... the last Nhl cup final the pens didn't make, the NBA crushed in ratings... even last year the nba had grest ratings in the off days : NBA finals top Pittsburgh ratings, when we're not watching the Pens

Im telling yinz... I spend most summers in Oklahoma... when the discussions about moving a team to ok city were going on it was religiously reported that the nba preference was Pittsburgh... the timeframe was just off

There is a huge nba following here.. and basketball is way more widespread in high school... the westerm pa area is larger than several 4 sport areas... its going to happen sooner or later...
 

JimmyTwoTimes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
19,958
5,281
Vegas wasnt a hockey town before getting their team. Pitt isnt a bball city because they havent had a team. If they got one..people would follow.
 

ziggyjoe212

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
3,039
2,359
There's no question Pittsburghers would support an NBA team. NBA is insanely popular and basketball is arguably the most common sport to play as a kid. What gym or playground doesnt have bball hoops? The issue is Pittsburgh and it's 2 million person metro area is too small for 4 major pro teams.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
There's no question Pittsburghers would support an NBA team. NBA is insanely popular and basketball is arguably the most common sport to play as a kid. What gym or playground doesnt have bball hoops? The issue is Pittsburgh and it's 2 million person metro area is too small for 4 major pro teams.
Metro area as you mentioned is just too small. Three is good. 4 is over kill.

That and the surrounding areas are too close with teams. Just too close.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad