Proposal: Poll: Should Rutherford get fired?

[Dipsy Doodle]

I still don't understand why we'd want to throw all our eggs in one basket. Both Dumo and Letang have shown they can carry their own pairings. Nobody else this year has.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I still don't understand why we'd want to throw all our eggs in one basket. Both Dumo and Letang have shown they can carry their own pairings. Nobody else this year has.

But the issue with that is you wouldn't be able to run Dumoulin on a shutdown pair if you pair him with Daley, Daley would get murdered going against Ovi, Tavares, Giroux and such every game. Dumoulin-Letang would definitely work as a shutdown pair.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I just think Maatta's too slow for a shutdown role with Letang. Maatta's speed and lateral movement have left a whole lot to be desired this season, and I think Dumo's skating on a pair with Letang would be better.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But the issue with that is you wouldn't be able to run Dumoulin on a shutdown pair if you pair him with Daley, Daley would get murdered going against Ovi, Tavares, Giroux and such every game. Dumoulin-Letang would definitely work as a shutdown pair.

I don't have a problem with Maatta in that capacity - skating issues notwithstanding - but to each his own.

Personally, I think he and Letang complement each others strengths and weaknesses well atm. Which is funny, because I was gung-ho for Maatta carrying his own pairing to start the year, before it became obvious he was struggling getting back to game speed.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I'd say JR's turned the team's strength under Shero (defense) into its weakness, but has turned its weakness (ignoring the top six) into its strength. Maybe the two should share notebooks and we'd have a complete team.

The one thing I do like about JR that I hated about Shero was JR seems much more aggressive about filling an obvious hole. It might not always work out like intended (Perron), but at least he doesn't sit on his hands for a decade before fixing obvious issues. Shero, IMO, was too conservative about fixing what needed fixing (and that extends to the coaching position, where JR got rid of a problem pronto compared to Shero re-signing the problem for more years).

I still can't stomach the fact that someone like Craig Adams was kept around as long as he was at the expense of younger, more skilled players that we had down in the system, meanwhile in one summer (2013) he thought it would be a good idea to hand out 4-year contracts to 3 guys in their 30's, one of them being Rob Scuderi, simply because he couldn't get over the fact that he let him walk in 2009...

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I think it's pretty apparent that Shero lucked out with the team he threw together for the Cup runs. As soon as people started leaving and he had to reshape the team again, he failed miserably. Repeatedly. Just look at the guys he went after year after year; Morrow, Murray, Stempniak, Poni, etc. He saw that the Cup teams did well and said "That's the ONLY way to do it!" and proceeded to sacrifice depth and surrounding Sid/Geno with talent in favor of the "Sid and Geno vs. The World" approach.

****, he practically begged Staal to stick around because he was terrified, unable or unwilling to move on from him. He handed Staal a blank check FFS. Jordan ****ing Staal, earning a $6M/yr, 10-year deal. Which ended up being his deal anyway, signed by our new and just as terrible GM, Jim Rutherford.

I wasn't a fan of giving Staal that kind of contract and I thank the hockey gods to this day it never actually panned out. I liked Staal a lot (still do), however we would've been hard-pressed to justify that kind of cap hit for 10 years on a player of his ilk. Had it been something like 6-7 years, then MAYBE. 10 years though?? No chance.

 

[Cherpak]

Should he be fired? Nah.

He won't be here much longer. So unless he pulls another bone head move like Despres/Lovejoy which I just don't see him doing again, he will finish out his contract and probably Botterill will take over.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

There has never been a shred of evidence provided to that end. All that was ever offered was a quote from his agent saying that playing with Grabovski was "a priority". Agent-speak, nothing more. If you can provide something else, I'm all ears.

We had the cap space to sign Kulemin for the same price the Isles paid, we also had a friend of his with whom he had pre-established chemistry, and we were the better team. We chose Ehrhoff.

I think you know the onus of proof is on you in this case. In fact I think this same song and dance was done in other threads.

Kuemin and Grabovski signed matching 4 year deals on the same date with the same team after rumors surfaced they were looking to go somewhere together...sometimes it really is that easy.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think you know the onus of proof is on you in this case. In fact I think this same song and dance was done in other threads.

Kuemin and Grabovski signed matching 4 year deals on the same date with the same team after rumors surfaced they were looking to go somewhere together...sometimes it really is that easy.

We have done the song and dance before, but no, the burden of proof isn't on me. The burden of proof is on anyone who suggests that Grabovski and Kulemin were a package deal, because otherwise, UFAs go to the highest bidder/best situation.

But just for ***** and giggles...

Going into UFA, Rutherford was very vocal about hoping to "satisfy" Malkin in free agency after trading Neal, which is a) obvious about who he was talking about, and b) absurd if Kulemin's agent had made it known that he and Grabo were a package deal. We never would have signed both.

After Ehrhoff was signed, Rutherford then came out with this gem via Yohe:



Weird how Rutherford hoped to satisfy Geno in free agency, then all of a sudden decided he didn't need a top 6 winger after Ehrhoff was signed. Also note zero mention of a prohibitive Kulemin/Grabovski package, which would have been an easy out for his swing and a miss. It wasn't used because it didn't exist.

We had the cap space, situational advantage, and "friend card". JR opted to prioritize Ehrhoff, probably because he was sucked into the "better value" rationale that virtually the whole board was.

 

[rkhum]

OK, you know what, I've had enough of this non-sense about Jim Rutherford here and ESPECIALLY from ThePensBlog (TPB).

Most of this post is addressed towards TPB because they have been relentless in their mostly ignorant attacks on Rutherford. They claim the GMJR has been clueless, without any direction at all since taking over, which is total non sense.

Rutherford came to the Pens and inherited:
-Two superstar centers
-A hot/cold James Neal who sucked in the playoffs and could only play with Geno
-Aging/bad contracts to Kunitz/Dupruis/Scuderi
-VERY POOR forward depth outside Sid/Geno/Neal
-A mobile defense that had one year left of Paul Martin and Matt Niskanen a UFA (who due to the aforementioned bad contracts COULD NOT be kept-and in fact the failure of Shero to lock up Nisky sooner was one reason why Mario was pissed at him)
-A terrible prospect base at forward along with some unrealized hope for defenseman like Depres/Demuluin/Harrington, and most of all Puliet.
-A somewhat broken goalie in MAF


So what did GMJR do?
-He set out to desperately improve the Pens forward skill on the top six and bottom six
(Perron/Kessel Downie)
-Moved Sutter for a cheaper/better player in Bonnino
-Moved Scuderi for Daly
-He stabilized MAF by declaring him the goalie for the long term future, then signed him to a bargain deal...a move of bold confidence and shrewdness which NEVER gets mentioned



Yet, what does everybody ***** about?
-James Neal being traded
-Perron (AFTER the fact) not working out
-Trading of draft picks for forwards
-Trading of Despres
-Kessel not "working" out

-Which is either some of the worst MMQB talk I've seen, or just total ignorance.
Kessel >>>> Neal, a player who seemingly could "only" score with Malkin, and was very very streaky who took selfish penalities. (Not only that, but if we accept the premise that this was dumb trade, most agree this was mandated by the front office in any case).
He got Hornqvist and Spalling...Hornqvist gave the Pens some grit and net front presence they lacked, a more balanced player advanced stats liked...while Spalling was used to get Kessel. I'd said Kessel+Hornqvist >> Neal.

-He gave up a first for Perron, because we have NO prospects to trade...unless you wanted Pouliet gone.
-He got Kessel at a reduced cap hit
-He signed Downie who really helped eliminate cheap shots on Crosby (but took too many penalties)

-Traded Despres, somebody who hasn't proven to be a top 4 defender, to get somebody with experience (Lovejoy) to help mentor a young defense (Maata and Demoulin...with both being better than Despres) while the other young defenseman (Pouliet) is awaiting.
This a move which isn't all that bad in any event but which most feel was driven by others in the front office.


The *****ing and moaning over GMJR is just ignorant, I have to say again.
How is GMJR supposed to improve the Pens forwards AND retain a Nisky/Martin (or get their equivalents) AND keep whatever picks/prospects of value?

Sorry but this is the mess GMJR has to work with because Shero sucked at drafting/developing players...especially forwardsa and mis-managed the cap with Kunitz/Dupris/Scuderi.

I don't know what you expect GMJR or any gm to do with a tight cap and limited prospect pool.
I think he's done a hellofajob getting a decent top six and bottom six (Fehr/Bonnino/Cullen) while the so-called great defensive prospect pool has seen Maata struggle with injuries, Pouliet never live up to the hype.

So was he supposed to re-build after back to back division titles and being one game away from back to back conference finals?
Seriously WHAT was he supposed to do in the under two years?

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the main issue is that you can't realistically argue that our line-up is that much better today than it was after 2014. We've lost Niskanen, Orpik, Martin, Despres, Harrington, Samuelsson, Scuderi on the back end, we lost Neal, Sutter, Jokinen, Stempniak, Megna, Vitale, etc. up front.

We've basically turned all of those players into a bottom six that is composed of Fehr and Cullen on very short term deals (which is fine, but this is the same exact solutions Shero tended to go towards) and AHL call ups. You've turned Neal into Hornqvist which is fine, but forced you to go out and give up a 1st, Kapanen, and Harrington for a scorer to replace him. You gave up another 1st for David Perron who was a dumpster fire that you ended up trading for Hagelin who is making 4 million a year to put up a career 30 pts.

How has Rutherford solved any of the problems that our team had when we were employing players like Kuni and Dupuis four or five years ago? We've essentially rebuilt this team into a version of the Pittsburgh Penguins after our cup run. It is pieced together with the hope that career underachievers and 3rd liners step up and play above their heads.

I think you don't make any of those trades and just role the team we had after 2013 with a few UFA signings and you are finishing in a similar spot in the playoffs. Or like now you are out of the playoffs. If your just going to give away picks and players and hope things stick, why not just take the year and get the assets to rebuild? Instead we've traded away picks and taken on multiple contracts to be a fringe playoff team.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think the main issue is that you can't realistically argue that our line-up is that much better today than it was after 2014. We've lost Niskanen, Orpik, Martin, Despres, Harrington, Samuelsson, Scuderi on the back end, we lost Neal, Sutter, Jokinen, Stempniak, Megna, Vitale, etc. up front.

We've basically turned all of those players into a bottom six that is composed of Fehr and Cullen on very short term deals (which is fine, but this is the same exact solutions Shero tended to go towards) and AHL call ups. You've turned Neal into Hornqvist which is fine, but forced you to go out and give up a 1st, Kapanen, and Harrington for a scorer to replace him. You gave up another 1st for David Perron who was a dumpster fire that you ended up trading for Hagelin who is making 4 million a year to put up a career 30 pts.

How has Rutherford solved any of the problems that our team had when we were employing players like Kuni and Dupuis four or five years ago? We've essentially rebuilt this team into a version of the Pittsburgh Penguins after our cup run. It is pieced together with the hope that career underachievers and 3rd liners step up and play above their heads.

I think you don't make any of those trades and just role the team we had after 2013 with a few UFA signings and you are finishing in a similar spot in the playoffs. Or like now you are out of the playoffs. If your just going to give away picks and players and hope things stick, why not just take the year and get the assets to rebuild? Instead we've traded away picks and taken on multiple contracts to be a fringe playoff team.

The team still has flaws but he fixed the things that kept the Pens from succeeding in the playoffs. Speed for one, more balanced scoring, stopping teams from being able to shut down Crosby or Malkin and daring any of their wings to score, much better coaching, etc.

The team just looks a lot better than those teams Disco coached into regular season wonders who even when they were winning you could see the seeds of where they would fail come playoff time.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

I think the main issue is that you can't realistically argue that our line-up is that much better today than it was after 2014. We've lost Niskanen, Orpik, Martin, Despres, Harrington, Samuelsson, Scuderi on the back end, we lost Neal, Sutter, Jokinen, Stempniak, Megna, Vitale, etc. up front.

We've basically turned all of those players into a bottom six that is composed of Fehr and Cullen on very short term deals (which is fine, but this is the same exact solutions Shero tended to go towards) and AHL call ups. You've turned Neal into Hornqvist which is fine, but forced you to go out and give up a 1st, Kapanen, and Harrington for a scorer to replace him. You gave up another 1st for David Perron who was a dumpster fire that you ended up trading for Hagelin who is making 4 million a year to put up a career 30 pts.

How has Rutherford solved any of the problems that our team had when we were employing players like Kuni and Dupuis four or five years ago? We've essentially rebuilt this team into a version of the Pittsburgh Penguins after our cup run. It is pieced together with the hope that career underachievers and 3rd liners step up and play above their heads.

I think you don't make any of those trades and just role the team we had after 2013 with a few UFA signings and you are finishing in a similar spot in the playoffs. Or like now you are out of the playoffs. If your just going to give away picks and players and hope things stick, why not just take the year and get the assets to rebuild? Instead we've traded away picks and taken on multiple contracts to be a fringe playoff team.

The fact that he's avoided some idiotic FA signings and contract extensions is proof enough for me that he's already doing a better job that Shero was. Also, would you have been happy gifting the types of contracts that Niskanen and Orpik ended up getting? I'm liking the fact that he isn't handcuffing us to blown out deals on bottom 6 players or aging veterans.

I'm perfectly happy with the Neal/Hornqvist trade. Neal's apparent off-ice antics were apparently a distraction for the team, and his tendency of taking terrible penalties on the ice wasn't helping matters either. Also, take a look at his production with the PReds and try to argue that his production with the Pens didn't depend HEAVILY on who he also happened to be playing with. In the end we got a 27 year old who happens to be one of the best net-front players in the league who works his ass off every single game, while managing to put up some solid offensive numbers. I'll take it.

Kessel is the first legit elite scoring winger we've had in years, who is still in his prime at 28 years old, and doesn't have that bad of a contract either, considering the Leafs agreed to retain a portion of it. I would definitely do that trade again as well.

As for Perron, once again hindsight is 20/20 but at the time no one would've ever anticipated him turning out to be the disaster he ended up becoming. At least he wasn't a guy north of 30 that had a horrible contracted that would've made him almost impossible to move however...

 

[Gurglesons]

The fact that he's avoided some idiotic FA signings and contract extensions is proof enough for me that he's already doing a better job that Shero was. Also, would you have been happy gifting the types of contracts that Niskanen and Orpik ended up getting? I'm liking the fact that he isn't handcuffing us to blown out deals on bottom 6 players or aging veterans.

I'm perfectly happy with the Neal/Hornqvist trade. Neal's apparent off-ice antics were apparently a distraction for the team, and his tendency of taking terrible penalties on the ice wasn't helping matters either. Also, take a look at his production with the PReds and try to argue that his production with the Pens didn't depend HEAVILY on who he also happened to be playing with. In the end we got a 27 year old who happens to be one of the best net-front players in the league who works his ass off every single game, while managing to put up some solid offensive numbers. I'll take it.

Kessel is the first legit elite scoring winger we've had in years, who is still in his prime at 28 years old, and doesn't have that bad of a contract either, considering the Leafs agreed to retain a portion of it. I would definitely do that trade again as well.

As for Perron, once again hindsight is 20/20 but at the time no one would've ever anticipated him turning out to be the disaster he ended up becoming. At least he wasn't a guy north of 30 that had a horrible contracted that would've made him almost impossible to move however...

Kessel is the first legit elite scoring winger we've had?

James Neal has 201 goals vs Phil Kessel's 261 in 187 games less.

My point isn't hindsight is 20/20. Perron, Hornqvist, Kessel are all good moves in theory, but the fact is that our team is simply exactly where it was in the Shero era.

Our top five players in points are Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel and Hornqvist. We have no real production in our bottom six. You can say that Cullen looks good, but so have plenty of players that have come through our bottom six in the last few years. If you are going to give up all of the assets that Rutherford has for the last year and a half, you better get something that produces more.

I think a lot of the opinions of JR's methods are based on the fact we've watched this team fail with the same supporting cast for a couple years in a row. Now we get to see them fail with a new supporting cast. I don't necessarily consider that a gain and I definitely don't think that is a reason to keep him employed. This team should not be a fringe playoff team, especially with the assets we gave up to get here. That is why JR should be fired.

Couple that with the fact we've given away every single one of our prospects outside of Pouliot and pretty much all of our picks outside of ones acquired because of a screwed up system involving hirings. One that we didn't even take advantage of when we had the option with Shero being hired by the Devils.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I think the main issue is that you can't realistically argue that our line-up is that much better today than it was after 2014. We've lost Niskanen, Orpik, Martin, Despres, Harrington, Samuelsson, Scuderi on the back end, we lost Neal, Sutter, Jokinen, Stempniak, Megna, Vitale, etc. up front.

We've basically turned all of those players into a bottom six that is composed of Fehr and Cullen on very short term deals (which is fine, but this is the same exact solutions Shero tended to go towards) and AHL call ups. You've turned Neal into Hornqvist which is fine, but forced you to go out and give up a 1st, Kapanen, and Harrington for a scorer to replace him. You gave up another 1st for David Perron who was a dumpster fire that you ended up trading for Hagelin who is making 4 million a year to put up a career 30 pts.

How has Rutherford solved any of the problems that our team had when we were employing players like Kuni and Dupuis four or five years ago? We've essentially rebuilt this team into a version of the Pittsburgh Penguins after our cup run. It is pieced together with the hope that career underachievers and 3rd liners step up and play above their heads.

I think you don't make any of those trades and just role the team we had after 2013 with a few UFA signings and you are finishing in a similar spot in the playoffs. Or like now you are out of the playoffs. If your just going to give away picks and players and hope things stick, why not just take the year and get the assets to rebuild? Instead we've traded away picks and taken on multiple contracts to be a fringe playoff team.

the three bolded Dmen were lost by Shero not leaving any space to sign them. JR had 4M to use and signed Hoff, which many in the hockey worled labeled as the best contrad on July 1st. It didn't work out but that's not JR's fault. And you're really gonna include Scuds in the "look how many super important Dmen we lost" sentance?

You Shero fanboys refuse to admit that this team was going to go into the toilet the summer of 2014, regardless of who the GM was, because Shero failed to move Orpik once Scuds was signed, re-signed Nisky before he commanded 5M+ or left no room to re-sign Martin. Also, through terrible managment (Eaton and Murray) Des didn't get the time he should have early on to work through his **** and show he was a legit top 4 guy.

Give it up, Shero ****ing destroyed this team long before JR was hired.

Also, let me know when that 2015 1st is making passes in the NHL like Hags did on the Kess goal last night.

 

[BobCole]

Kessel is the first legit elite scoring winger we've had?

James Neal has 201 goals vs Phil Kessel's 261 in 187 games less.

My point isn't hindsight is 20/20. Perron, Hornqvist, Kessel are all good moves in theory, but the fact is that our team is simply exactly where it was in the Shero era.

Our top five players in points are Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel and Hornqvist. We have no real production in our bottom six. You can say that Cullen looks good, but so have plenty of players that have come through our bottom six in the last few years. If you are going to give up all of the assets that Rutherford has for the last year and a half, you better get something that produces more.

I think a lot of the opinions of JR's methods are based on the fact we've watched this team fail with the same supporting cast for a couple years in a row. Now we get to see them fail with a new supporting cast. I don't necessarily consider that a gain and I definitely don't think that is a reason to keep him employed. This team should not be a fringe playoff team, especially with the assets we gave up to get here. That is why JR should be fired.

Couple that with the fact we've given away every single one of our prospects outside of Pouliot and pretty much all of our picks outside of ones acquired because of a screwed up system involving hirings. One that we didn't even take advantage of when we had the option with Shero being hired by the Devils.

Which Shero bottom-6 players looked good here? I'm not being snarky, I'm just trying to recall.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Listening to yesterday's Leaf's Lunch and they talked about how great Jagr has been mentoring Barkov and Huberdeau and it's making me sick. Shero cheaped out on signing Jags for Tyler ****ign Kenedy. **** him.

 

[rkhum]

the three bolded Dmen were lost by Shero not leaving any space to sign them. JR had 4M to use and signed Hoff, which many in the hockey worled labeled as the best contrad on July 1st. It didn't work out but that's not JR's fault. And you're really gonna include Scuds in the "look how many super important Dmen we lost" sentance?

You Shero fanboys refuse to admit that this team was going to go into the toilet the summer of 2014, regardless of who the GM was, because Shero failed to move Orpik once Scuds was signed, re-signed Nisky before he commanded 5M+ or left no room to re-sign Martin. Also, through terrible managment (Eaton and Murray) Des didn't get the time he should have early on to work through his **** and show he was a legit top 4 guy.

Give it up, Shero ****ing destroyed this team long before JR was hired.

Also, let me know when that 2015 1st is making passes in the NHL like Hags did on the Kess goal last night.

Hit it on the nail.
GMJR has done a really good job of improving the top 6 and depth while dealing with no cap space and no farm system.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

We have done the song and dance before, but no, the burden of proof isn't on me. The burden of proof is on anyone who suggests that Grabovski and Kulemin were a package deal, because otherwise, UFAs go to the highest bidder/best situation.

The agent said publically he shopped them as a package. Quotes attributed to him were that it was a "Top Priority" to get them signed on the same team.

Outlets that posted some version of these quotes were NHL.com and Sportsnet.CA, and many others. None of this was a rumor.

From the Sportsnet.ca article with a lot of quotes from the agent:

"Once the free agent market opened at 12 p.m. ET on Tuesday, four teams expressed interest in signing Grabovski and Kulemin as a package. Greenstin wouldn't reveal who they were, but noted that one was a "great team" and another was trying to make roster moves that would free up the cap space needed to get the deals done."

We never had a chance at Kulemin unless we were willing to take Grabo. And that package deal is already hamstringing the islanders and they could well lose better players because of them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Listening to yesterday's Leaf's Lunch and they talked about how great Jagr has been mentoring Barkov and Huberdeau and it's making me sick. Shero cheaped out on signing Jags for Tyler ****ign Kenedy. **** him.

I don't know how much of that I'd put on Shero. Jags was pretty open after it went down in the Czech press that he didn't want to be second fiddle to Crosby and Malkin. It's quite possible Jags has mellowed since then, but there was a lot of weirdness going on with that whole situation. And Jardo is just a straight up WEIRD dude.

And I say this as a person who HATED resigning Tyler Kennedy.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I don't know how much of that I'd put on Shero. Jags was pretty open after it went down in the Czech press that he didn't want to be second fiddle to Crosby and Malkin. It's quite possible Jags has mellowed since then, but there was a lot of weirdness going on with that whole situation. And Jardo is just a straight up WEIRD dude.

And I say this as a person who HATED resigning Tyler Kennedy.

Shero lowballed Jagr, offering him the same money he gave to TK after Jagr rejected it. It was down to us, DET and PHI. Shero and DET didn't want to give him 3M and PHI did. We all know how that worked out for everyone.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Shero lowballed Jagr, offering him the same money he gave to TK after Jagr rejected it. It was down to us, DET and PHI. Shero and DET didn't want to give him 3M and PHI did. We all know how that worked out for everyone.

Jagr certrainly wasn't the top player he once was, but he was certainly worth what he ended up settling on. 3.3

Especially in Pittsburgh.....

Though we don't know if this was just a ploy to drive up his value. I'll go with HSL and say even if they matched he probably doesn't come here. Like he would want to be on a team he's telling the captain to get up during the playoffs.

Jagr, gonna Jagr, what a $elf driven entity.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

OK, you know what, I've had enough of this non-sense about Jim Rutherford here and ESPECIALLY from ThePensBlog (TPB).

Most of this post is addressed towards TPB because they have been relentless in their mostly ignorant attacks on Rutherford. They claim the GMJR has been clueless, without any direction at all since taking over, which is total non sense.

Rutherford came to the Pens and inherited:
-Two superstar centers
-A hot/cold James Neal who sucked in the playoffs and could only play with Geno
-Aging/bad contracts to Kunitz/Dupruis/Scuderi
-VERY POOR forward depth outside Sid/Geno/Neal
-A mobile defense that had one year left of Paul Martin and Matt Niskanen a UFA (who due to the aforementioned bad contracts COULD NOT be kept-and in fact the failure of Shero to lock up Nisky sooner was one reason why Mario was pissed at him)
-A terrible prospect base at forward along with some unrealized hope for defenseman like Depres/Demuluin/Harrington, and most of all Puliet.
-A somewhat broken goalie in MAF


So what did GMJR do?
-He set out to desperately improve the Pens forward skill on the top six and bottom six
(Perron/Kessel Downie)
-Moved Sutter for a cheaper/better player in Bonnino
-Moved Scuderi for Daly
-He stabilized MAF by declaring him the goalie for the long term future, then signed him to a bargain deal...a move of bold confidence and shrewdness which NEVER gets mentioned



Yet, what does everybody ***** about?
-James Neal being traded
-Perron (AFTER the fact) not working out
-Trading of draft picks for forwards
-Trading of Despres
-Kessel not "working" out

-Which is either some of the worst MMQB talk I've seen, or just total ignorance.
Kessel >>>> Neal, a player who seemingly could "only" score with Malkin, and was very very streaky who took selfish penalities. (Not only that, but if we accept the premise that this was dumb trade, most agree this was mandated by the front office in any case).
He got Hornqvist and Spalling...Hornqvist gave the Pens some grit and net front presence they lacked, a more balanced player advanced stats liked...while Spalling was used to get Kessel. I'd said Kessel+Hornqvist >> Neal.

-He gave up a first for Perron, because we have NO prospects to trade...unless you wanted Pouliet gone.
-He got Kessel at a reduced cap hit
-He signed Downie who really helped eliminate cheap shots on Crosby (but took too many penalties)

-Traded Despres, somebody who hasn't proven to be a top 4 defender, to get somebody with experience (Lovejoy) to help mentor a young defense (Maata and Demoulin...with both being better than Despres) while the other young defenseman (Pouliet) is awaiting.
This a move which isn't all that bad in any event but which most feel was driven by others in the front office.


The *****ing and moaning over GMJR is just ignorant, I have to say again.
How is GMJR supposed to improve the Pens forwards AND retain a Nisky/Martin (or get their equivalents) AND keep whatever picks/prospects of value?

Sorry but this is the mess GMJR has to work with because Shero sucked at drafting/developing players...especially forwardsa and mis-managed the cap with Kunitz/Dupris/Scuderi.

I don't know what you expect GMJR or any gm to do with a tight cap and limited prospect pool.
I think he's done a hellofajob getting a decent top six and bottom six (Fehr/Bonnino/Cullen) while the so-called great defensive prospect pool has seen Maata struggle with injuries, Pouliet never live up to the hype.

So was he supposed to re-build after back to back division titles and being one game away from back to back conference finals?
Seriously WHAT was he supposed to do in the under two years?

This is a messageboard. People will never be happy, no matter what.

 

[tinkezione]

No. The only great gripe I have is the trade of the Player-That-Should-Not-Be-Named, but I'm adamant his hand was forced i.e. decision was already made elsewhere for whoever knows what reasons.

Everything else boils down to at least "a good try" and some moves are outrageously great; mainly talking about the acquisition of Daley and Hagelin. (I reserve the right to change my mind on Hagelin if he'd all of a sudden fall off the face of Earth.)