Poll: Most hated CBJ person in CBJ history

[Zarathustra]

Scott Howson had the misfortune of being tethered to a blood donation station with a needle taped to his arm drawing blood beside me for about a half hour. This was the day after the Voracek/Carter trade. We had quite a conversation. He expressed that he didn't relish trading Jake, his draft pick, but insisted that Philly wouldn't even consider anyone else. I know there was talk at the time Philly wanted someone else...can't recall who now..but FGMSH maintained adamantly that the Flyes only wanted Jake. He had nothing to gain or lose by our conversation. I am as unassuming a person as they come, certainly not what you'd picture as a stereotypical hockey fan. Some of you'd be surprised if you met me, lol. Fro and Wooten can vouch for that!

So, there's that little anecdote for what it's worth.

I was actually good friends with someone who dated Jake. Apparently he really wanted to stay in Columbus, and was nervous that he was going to get traded over a year before he did. At the same time, he has an 8 million AAV and is on pace for under 60 points and under 20 goals, and people complain about the Foligno contract...

 

[cbj21]

Bad mistake. I see no Kiel McLeod there on the list !!

 

[blahblah]

I was actually good friends with someone who dated Jake. Apparently he really wanted to stay in Columbus, and was nervous that he was going to get traded over a year before he did. At the same time, he has an 8 million AAV and is on pace for under 60 points and under 20 goals, and people complain about the Foligno contract...

Twice in the last three years Jack has had a sub-20 minute prod - that's elite category not just top line. One year he was right at a PPG and the other he had like 46 points in 47 games. Foligno never came close to that.

Sub-par year to be sure and I'd be nervous with that contract (mainly on term no dollars); but there was plenty of history there to come up with that deal.

Last year was a huge jump for Foligno, he never even came close to that previously. Even Jake has numerous 20 goal seasons *he's not a goal scorer by any stretch); that was Foligno's first.

For the record, the main reason I'm looking at moving Foligno isn't because of the dollars it's because I'm not sure he was really the right fit for captain and we might need to shake things up in that locker room. Let's face it Johansen didn't appear to be much of a player with the leadership group. Foligno should produce around that 25 minute prod with the ice time he's getting, although I'm not sure he'll see 25 goals again. He's peak seems to be around 200 SoG and if he hits around a 10% number that's only 20 goals. He would need to hit up over 15% again and that's a tall order; doing it in back to back seasons gave me some small hope.

 

[NotWendell]

How about a separate poll for the most loved CBJ alumni? Sanderson, Odelein, Tugnutt, Knutsen, Vyborny, Nash, Malhotra, you get the idea.

 

[major major]

Twice in the last three years Jack has had a sub-20 minute prod - that's elite category not just top line. One year he was right at a PPG and the other he had like 46 points in 47 games. Foligno never came close to that.

Sub-par year to be sure and I'd be nervous with that contract (mainly on term no dollars); but there was plenty of history there to come up with that deal.

Last year was a huge jump for Foligno, he never even came close to that previously. Even Jake has numerous 20 goal seasons *he's not a goal scorer by any stretch); that was Foligno's first.

For the record, the main reason I'm looking at moving Foligno isn't because of the dollars it's because I'm not sure he was really the right fit for captain and we might need to shake things up in that locker room. Let's face it Johansen didn't appear to be much of a player with the leadership group. Foligno should produce around that 25 minute prod with the ice time he's getting, although I'm not sure he'll see 25 goals again. He's peak seems to be around 200 SoG and if he hits around a 10% number that's only 20 goals. He would need to hit up over 15% again and that's a tall order; doing it in back to back seasons gave me some small hope.

No one would argue your point that Voracek has a longer track record and a better pedigree as a scorer than Foligno. In any case, Foligno isn't paid to be a 70 pt player every year. Jake is.

We don't really have the info to make judgments on Foligno's captaincy, other than the oft-repeated "learning experience", which suggests it's a work in progress. We certainly can't say anything about what Foligno tried vis a vis Johansen. Perhaps we need an ******* in that role - but with Dubi and Torts already playing a big role it seems unnecessary and possibly nuts. During the Leafs game, the excellent sportsnet commentator Mike Johnson, who played under Torts in Tampa, had a lot to say about this. He said that prior to Andreychuk going to Tampa, the harshly negative Torts tore his team down. It was only when Andreychuk came in to take the captaincy from Lecavalier that he was able to act as a positive buffer and build guys up into the championship team. Johnson also had a lot of very interesting things to say about Dubinsky.

Either way, I'm not particular attached to the idea of any particular player being captain. I just find it unnecessary and foolish to tie that question in with trading Foligno. The Sharks have changed captains several times without trading the former captain, as did Tortorella's Lightning. I have no idea if Foligno is a good captain, and neither do you, but I do know that Foligno has been one of the Jackets best players for several years now, and he likely will continue to be that going forward.

On a side note: No one uses PROD anymore because it doesn't disaggregate powerplay from 5 on 5. It makes it really hard to compare players. P/60 is much better.

 

[NotWendell]

I have a suspicion Foligno is going to be a much better captain now that Johansen is gone.

 

[Daytonian]

Carter as villain, there's no competition. It's not even close.

Only one player truly tanked and is truly hated--and deserves to be hated: Carter.

It's not even close.

Carter is the only player I've ever booed, and I still boo him despite the passing of the years.

I have one "glorious" memory of Carter as a Jacket--standing in the defensive zone, rooted like a plant, not even attempting to move and react, as the Blackhawks come up ice and score. He dogged his way out of C-bus, which he considered minor league.

What an A-hole.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I still dislike Foote more than anyone.
Nash is a close 2nd.

Both took leadership positions then jumped ship.

As for Carter he didn't want to be here. He's an a$$ for not playing hard (and obviously not being a professional) but that is on our team for trading for a guy who had issues and had just signed a life-time contract somewhere else. Another example of our management trying to play fantasy hockey instad of assembling a team.

Doug gets scorned for surrounding himself with all his buddies (yes men/PEI mafia), but ownership gets blame there for giving him too much power. I genuinely think he wanted to win very badly and is passionate but he needed checks and blaances. It didn't help things when Mr Mac (RIP) made his silly statement about the playoffs and walking on water (on Dougs shoulders). Unrealistic expectations led us to many bad signings and many mediocure finishes.

 

[NotWendell]

I still dislike Foote more than anyone.
Nash is a close 2nd.

Both took leadership positions then jumped ship.

As for Carter he didn't want to be here. He's an a$$ for not playing hard (and obviously not being a professional) but that is on our team for trading for a guy who had issues and had just signed a life-time contract somewhere else. Another example of our management trying to play fantasy hockey instad of assembling a team.

Doug gets scorned for surrounding himself with all his buddies (yes men/PEI mafia), but ownership gets blame there for giving him too much power. I genuinely think he wanted to win very badly and is passionate but he needed checks and blaances. It didn't help things when Mr Mac (RIP) made his silly statement about the playoffs and walking on water (on Dougs shoulders). Unrealistic expectations led us to many bad signings and many mediocure finishes.

Mr. Mac lost points as an owner by not doing it after the missed the playoffs the following season. Could have been a fun headline plus it would have should accountability (which apparently was minimal).

 

[CBJ Bob]

Only one player truly tanked and is truly hated--and deserves to be hated: Carter.

It's not even close.

Carter is the only player I've ever booed, and I still boo him despite the passing of the years.

I have one "glorious" memory of Carter as a Jacket--standing in the defensive zone, rooted like a plant, not even attempting to move and react, as the Blackhawks come up ice and score. He dogged his way out of C-bus, which he considered minor league.

What an A-hole.

Question: Anson or Jeff, which one?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

As for Carter he didn't want to be here. He's an a$$ for not playing hard (and obviously not being a professional) but that is on our team for trading for a guy who had issues and had just signed a life-time contract somewhere else. Another example of our management trying to play fantasy hockey instad of assembling a team.

Perfectly put. Howson completely botched this one.

I used to hate Carter. I still love hearing him get booed every time he touches the puck. It's become a cool Columbus tradition. However, I completely understand his strategy. It worked for him very well. At least 2 Stanley Cups well.

I think a recent player took note and followed the Carter playbook. I think it will pay him great dividends as well.

 

[PubOFH]

How is Sergei Fedorov not on this list? Talk about an overpaid floater.

 

[Viqsi]

How is Sergei Fedorov not on this list? Talk about an overpaid floater.

He is; it's just spelled "Other".

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Can I vote "Front Office 2000-present"?

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

Maybe it's just because I regularly attend Double-A, Single-A, and independent minor league baseball games and am immune to all levels of over-the-top jumbotron host antics (don't get me started on the current situation with the Single-A team), but I don't get the Mike Todd hate. He does a good job at being an entertaining host for all of the sideshow activities (why a major league team feels they need this much sideshow stuff is a serious question though, it's at almost an NBA level [not a compliment]).

 

[Derby]

Maybe it's just because I regularly attend Double-A, Single-A, and independent minor league baseball games and am immune to all levels of over-the-top jumbotron host antics (don't get me started on the current situation with the Single-A team), but I don't get the Mike Todd hate. He does a good job at being an entertaining host for all of the sideshow activities (why a major league team feels they need this much sideshow stuff is a serious question though, it's at almost an NBA level [not a compliment]).

He's just bad. I've been to several other NHL arenas and none of the hosts, if they even have one, is as hokey and attention seeking as he is. Voice is grating, shtick is so old and unfunny. I'd say less is more for a host of that sort.

 

[mikeyp24]

I used that other option for RyJo. Prisoner of the moment vote but I view what he did the same as I view Carter but Carter wasnt a home grown asset. Joey came in out of shape and just floated around the ice and never responded to anyone trying to light a fire under him. from the top to the coaches to the players he played with they tried and no one got through to him. I honestly hope the trade turns him into the player and person he can be.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

Boone Jenner

Just kidding. Tie for Foote and Nash. You are the freaking captain. You don't abandoned ship. Low class in my opinion.
The only other one that I actually dislike is Carter. Spoiled brat.

 

[pete goegan]

Boone Jenner

Just kidding. Tie for Foote and Nash. You are the freaking captain. You don't abandoned ship. Low class in my opinion.
The only other one that I actually dislike is Carter. Spoiled brat.

I understand, but I don't see Foote and Nash as equal - Nash put in nine years and then asked for an off-season trade to a predetermined number of teams, while Foote forced his way out mid-season to the only team he found acceptable. Just my feelings, though.

 

[dru]

Why in the hell are Billy Davidage and George Matthews even on this list?

The correct answer to the question is Adam Foote. He's a complete dick bag.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I understand, but I don't see Foote and Nash as equal - Nash put in nine years and then asked for an off-season trade to a predetermined number of teams, while Foote forced his way out mid-season to the only team he found acceptable. Just my feelings, though.

Technically I think Nash asked for the trade in season, the CBJ made it public, but they waited for the off-season to trade him.

 

[pete goegan]

Technically I think Nash asked for the trade in season, the CBJ made it public, but they waited for the off-season to trade him.

That sounds right, JD.

 

[futurcorerock]

Voting other

I actually hate myself for going through so many years of watching this franchise overpromise and underdeliver.

 

[blahblah]

We don't really have the info to make judgments on Foligno's captaincy, other than the oft-repeated "learning experience", which suggests it's a work in progress.

You do realize I prefaced it with "I'm not sure". No where in there did I suggest we had any inside information other than what came out in the media at that time; which wasn't much but what there was is troubling. I can also look at the roster and the cap situation and analyze the team.

On a side note: No one uses PROD anymore because it doesn't disaggregate powerplay from 5 on 5. It makes it really hard to compare players. P/60 is much better.

Nah. The vast majority of sub 25 PROD players have significant PP time. I then look over at their PP totals. What I'm always looking for is 22 minute or less PROD with 2/3 of their points 5 on 5 - those are your real stars. It's easy to see the pretenders when they are playing 16 minutes a night and nearly half their points on the PP.

It's easy, takes a few seconds and pretty darn accurate.

I don't care what "no one else does" because I take into account variations in my analysis. Once I like the stats, I watch the player and form a real opinion. We tend to try and think that everything can be summarized down into some statistics. In sports, I only use stats as a measure to look closer at a player. Just simply being on a good or a poor team can skew stats enough to create a gap in two players that don't really exist.

Foligno is an interesting case. He's rather consistent but he actually seems to be a slightly more productive road player. His splits are fairly well rounded against team, conferences, and divisions over the last few years. His best chemistry was, easily, with Johansen - it will be interesting to see how he fits in moving forward.

I'm not all that confident that he's part of the solution. I like the players that I can see take their games to new levels; I'm not sure how much I saw that with Foligno over the years.

Now as far as people with the CBJ I have hated over the years - not sure I really hated anyone. I tend to not hate people that I don't know. I'd say that Priest seemed to be a pretty big problem for a while; he seemed to be way too involved in decisions he wasn't really qualified for.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't care what "no one else does" because I take into account variations in my analysis. Once I like the stats, I watch the player and form a real opinion. We tend to try and think that everything can be summarized down into some statistics. In sports, I only use stats as a measure to look closer at a player. Just simply being on a good or a poor team can skew stats enough to create a gap in two players that don't really exist.

I admittedly have a very similar approach, except I do care what "no one else does" because 1) that can be a learning opportunity for resources and approaches that I haven't encountered before and 2) it preps you for what talking points are going to be thrown in your face.

That and I like scouting reports. Lots and lots and lots of scouting reports. That plus critical thinking ability means you can at least get an idea of what reality might actually be. Sadly, I'm running short on readily available sources of same.