Poll: James "Disco Killer" Rutherford

[lastcupever75]

Let's make this discussion interesting...

Does anybody regret the Pens going with Pierre McGuire instead of Jimmy Rutherford last summer as GM of this team? He had some very radical ideas like trading Fleury and taking a run @ E.Kane & Ekblad at the draft.

if those were his ideas. then yes

 

[Zero Pucks]

I keep seeing Canes fans come here and say this.

He's done some pretty stupid things as your GM, he hasn't done nearly anything as stupid here. IMO his worst (and only bad) move was Despres for Lovejoy and in theory, it isn't a big deal, to me anyways. When I rationalize it, Despres' future here was a bottom pair defenseman, sure we could have gotten more for him, but we didn't, oh well, we have futures here, we're not desperate.

I think JR has done a lot of good things for this team, keep in mind he has better resources here than he did with Carolina, it's a bigger market here, and he addressed a lot of needs whether people want to realize that or not. He is an upgrade over Ray Shero.

I'm not sure what needs he really addressed to be honest. Finding a few forward band-aids in free agency in Comeu and Downie? Is that what he addressed? What are we left with if they aren't resigned? Though it was good value for Erhoff it was completely unnecessary of a signing, especially when we had at least 6 young defensemen ready (or soon to be ready) for NHL minutes. What this team really needed was to kick Adams and Scuds to the curb, sign a better forward in ufa, and give some of our young players some real playing time once and for all. Instead we keep on doing the opposite. Bennett is playing fourth line minutes with Craig Adams, and we traded one of our best defensemen and trading chips away for a much worthless defenseman.

 

[KIRK]

1. Voted NO.

2. The hired him because he said YES when they asked the most important interview question:

'We like the message here. We want to keep it in tact and in no way rock that boat. You can do anything you want which propagates and in no way runs counter to that message. The problem here has been the messenger, not the message. Do you agree?'

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't always agree with you... but this seemed very succinct and spot-on.

I've always wondered exactly what it takes to be such a "cap guru." Aside from the free time to do it and a laptop. Butterbean seems like yet another product of the "We're so smart and clever that we do nothing but **** gold" mentality of the Penguins. Botterill is more than likely yet another average to below average run-of-the-mill league exec. that has been packaged as some sort of "next one" by the team in their never-ending quest to LOOK and SOUND like they know what they are actually doing.

Yeah I mean all you need is an excel model. It would take a week to put together and as long as it's updated every time a player is called up or down, it should be accurate. I would even bet that the league provides a template since they would have to monitor it as well.

Botterill does more than that though. Signing guys to AHL deals, AHL trades and such. He's likely decent at his job, but nothing screams successful NHL GM.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's true.

By all accounts he did good work at the minor league level and I'm not trying to denigrate that. I just don't see the reason to fast track him unless he screams "savant" or something. Or, at least, fast-track him along with a bunch of other people of highly questionable qualifications. Which they did.

 

[Shady Machine]

I keep seeing Canes fans come here and say this.

He's done some pretty stupid things as your GM, he hasn't done nearly anything as stupid here. IMO his worst (and only bad) move was Despres for Lovejoy and in theory, it isn't a big deal, to me anyways. When I rationalize it, Despres' future here was a bottom pair defenseman, sure we could have gotten more for him, but we didn't, oh well, we have futures here, we're not desperate.

I think JR has done a lot of good things for this team, keep in mind he has better resources here than he did with Carolina, it's a bigger market here, and he addressed a lot of needs whether people want to realize that or not. He is an upgrade over Ray Shero.

That's the problem, you are trying to rationalize a bad trade to make it more palatable. It was a really, really bad trade.

That said, the rest of his moves have been pretty decent. Removing that trade, I have been generally pleased, but the Despres trade is symbolic of all that is wrong with this team and proves they haven't really changed. You just wait for the Bennett trade this summer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That said, the rest of his moves have been pretty decent. Removing that trade, I have been generally pleased, but the Despres trade is symbolic of all that is wrong with this team and proves they haven't really changed.

Now hold on, there. Don't forget the embarrassing cap-mismanagement.

That's a new wrinkle of incompetence we haven't seen, yet!

That constitutes change!

 

[sheriff bart]

He's done some pretty stupid things as your GM, he hasn't done nearly anything as stupid here.

Just wait. I can't wait for when he trades for Alex Semin.

 

[billybudd]

Most people agreed with a lot of his moves at the time then go back and bash him for it. Aside from despres; everyone knew that trade was ******** from the start.

I did not like the Winnik trade and referred repeatedly to the Perron deal as "risky."

 

[roquay]

Now hold on, there. Don't forget the embarrassing cap-mismanagement.

That's a new wrinkle of incompetence we haven't seen, yet!

That constitutes change!

Our cap situation was also a reason we had to pay more for Winnik so Toronto would retain salary. I guess that wasn't forced upon them though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I only voted "No" because there wasn't an option for "Aw HELL no!"

I was shocked when he was hired, gave him the benefit of the doubt because--well--we needed change very badly and I didn't think it was possible to do worse than staying the course with Ray Shero, and was intrigued by the Neal-Hornqvist deal. It was risky, but I liked the timing of it and what it meant.

But it's been abject failure since, imo. And if we don't get rid of him, he's going to do everything in his power to get Jordan Staal here!

Someone needs to stop this man.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

I may be the only one but I'd give JR and Johnston the benefit of the doubt. Hate to be THAT guy but this team has been screwed by injuries all year, people can say it's an "excuse" to me it's a reason for our failures.

Everyone knew guys would be kept as this season is looked at as unlucky one as opposed to a down one, I agree that injuries play a major role in our struggles. We are missing 3 of our top 4 defensemen, that hurts any team. Obviously Maatta is a solid player, Letang makes a huge difference on the team and while Ehrhoff hasn't been great, he can play the minutes. Now we have a 33 year old Paul Martin playing 33 minutes, Lovejoy playing 25 minutes because HE HAS TO.

This team is taxed, injuries have screwed them all year but obviously that's not the only reason. Like Mike Johnston says, there are too many passengers, not enough leaders. Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist are leaders but then we have guys who float like Kunitz, Comeau, Spaling, etc. I think we need to replace these guys with players who will buy in to what Johnston wants.

I think it would be a bad move to not at least give Rutherford a chance another year to add to what he started, he's done some great things for this team and people forget about that. We have high expectations every year, but maybe it was unrealistic to expect a lot of success after just one year into an organizational turnover? I say give them at least one more year, one more year to replace the bad players, hopefully we have better luck with the injury situation.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I may be the only one but I'd give JR and Johnston the benefit of the doubt. Hate to be THAT guy but this team has been screwed by injuries all year, people can say it's an "excuse" to me it's a reason for our failures.

Everyone knew guys would be kept as this season is looked at as unlucky one as opposed to a down one, I agree that injuries play a major role in our struggles. We are missing 3 of our top 4 defensemen, that hurts any team. Obviously Maatta is a solid player, Letang makes a huge difference on the team and while Ehrhoff hasn't been great, he can play the minutes. Now we have a 33 year old Paul Martin playing 33 minutes, Lovejoy playing 25 minutes because HE HAS TO.

This team is taxed, injuries have screwed them all year but obviously that's not the only reason. Like Mike Johnston says, there are too many passengers, not enough leaders. Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist are leaders but then we have guys who float like Kunitz, Comeau, Spaling, etc. I think we need to replace these guys with players who will buy in to what Johnston wants.

I think it would be a bad move to not at least give Rutherford a chance another year to add to what he started, he's done some great things for this team and people forget about that. We have high expectations every year, but maybe it was unrealistic to expect a lot of success after just one year into an organizational turnover? I say give them at least one more year, one more year to replace the bad players, hopefully we have better luck with the injury situation.

I'm sorry, but no

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/gene-collier/2015/04/09/Gene-Collier-8/stories/201504090088

“I would expect that that would be criticized,†Rutherford said. “If we had [Christian] Ehrhoff and Letang playing, we could plug Lovejoy and [Ian] Cole where I expected they’d fit. One thing about Lovejoy that I said at the time: This is a trade that over time will not be in our favor. We traded a young player [Simon Despres] for him, but our hockey organization is basically a group of nine people, and [it was clear] the trade was made more for experience, a trade that would give us a better chance in the playoffs.â€

 

[Black Label]

We've made the playoffs every year since '06 and yet we are still trading for 'experience'? That is a trade that a team like Florida makes because they have young talent to spare and none of their core players have playoff experience. When your core players have been to the playoffs almost every year and you lack young talent, you just don't go trading it away.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'm sorry, but no

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/gene-collier/2015/04/09/Gene-Collier-8/stories/201504090088

That quote made me SO angry when I read it. Geez, you're making a trade you KNOW is bad but you make it anyway!

 

[Coastal Kev]

I did not like the Winnik trade and referred repeatedly to the Perron deal as "risky."

Same here. He was labelled as a big guy that was quasi physical that chipped in offensively from time to time. How was that a need??? And two draft picks to boot. P A T H E T I C

 

[displacedpensfan]

Peter Chiarelli

As far as qualified replacements, Peter Chiarelli's now available.....

 

[JQR]

I only voted "No" because there wasn't an option for "Aw HELL no!"

I was shocked when he was hired, gave him the benefit of the doubt because--well--we needed change very badly and I didn't think it was possible to do worse than staying the course with Ray Shero, and was intrigued by the Neal-Hornqvist deal. It was risky, but I liked the timing of it and what it meant.

But it's been abject failure since, imo. And if we don't get rid of him, he's going to do everything in his power to get Jordan Staal here!

Someone needs to stop this man.

I would love to have Staal as a 3C again, for the right price of course. I don't see a $6m 3C working out too well though.

 

[NjPensfan]

IMO he's done a slightly better job than Johnston in his respective position, but truth is they both ought to go.

Here's how I see his moves:

Fire Bylsma: the right move, more of a symbolic gesture since he was gone anyway
Hornqvist trade: even (or slight negative)
Perron trade: slight positive
Offseason signings: slight positive*
Cole trade: significant positive
Despres trade: failure
Winnik trade: slight negative (Winnik's been good, but we overpaid for him...could work out if he extends and continues to gel)

*Ehrhoff turned into a major disaster, though that was hard to foresee. We should have gone for a forward at that time, which makes it harder to stomach. Downie et al have been solid additions on the cheap.

So all in all, a mixed bag from the moves he DID do. But here's what he DIDN'T do:

-fix the second line (it's been a disaster all year)
-ship out Scuderi
-ship out Kunitz/Adams
-hire a competent coach
-Dupuis situation

Not addressing a single one of these glaring issues all year is what makes him a failure.

Very good post. I would actually say the Hornqvist trade was NOT a good trade. I am one of the few Pens fans that believes he should have kept Neal or should have been able to get more for him. The team loved Neal and Malkin never played better than when Neal flanked him. Don't look at this season's stats...look at the two players at the point of the trade. Neal was worth more. Plus, Spaling is useless.

 

[joeyjake5]

IF JR had the final say on the SD trade than dump him.

If he wasn't for it and someone above him vetoed his decision and forced the trade. Well then let the idiots who were for this trade continue to ruin this team. Then, why have a GM.

 

[jjp66]

The Despres trade is a fireable offense... I don't care if the guy was snorting coke off of every teammate's wife/gf ****... Whatever "issues" he had, made up or real... Only getting Lovejoy for him was absolutely terrible. They seriously couldn't wait until the off-season to move him, if they were indeed dead set on moving him? I honestly didn't have an issue with Rutherford until that trade.. And now that the injuries have piled up, everything about the team just looks bad.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Bodog has odds for who will become the next GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Among the names you can wager on, there's Ray Shero and also Jason Botterill!

How is it that our capologist's reputation hasn't been completely destroyed by now???

Man, when you're in good with the Toronto media you have it made in the shade in this league.

 

[Asuna]

Bodog has odds for who will become the next GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Among the names you can wager on, there's Ray Shero and also Jason Botterill!

How is it that our capologist's reputation hasn't been completely destroyed by now???

Man, when you're in good with the Toronto media you have it made in the shade in this league.

Good, please take Botterill. Hopefully he'd take the rest of the 'assistant GM's' here.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd love to see the Toronto sports media's reaction to having to play with 5 defensemen for the last several games of the season with their playoff chances on the line.

Good lord. It'd be a Hell of a lot different than the dumbasses who type up their articles from their knees in Pittsburgh.

 

[billybudd]

Bodog has odds for who will become the next GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Among the names you can wager on, there's Ray Shero and also Jason Botterill!

How is it that our capologist's reputation hasn't been completely destroyed by now???

Man, when you're in good with the Toronto media you have it made in the shade in this league.

I don't know enough about Butterbean to be able to say if he'd be a good GM or not, but I find it incredibly unlikely our cap situation to end the year was his doing and not JRs.

Bottlecaps has been in charge of that for about 5 years and we never had those sort of problems until the GM changed. Either he inexplicably got dumber or the new boss ignored him. Doesn't take a genius to conclude the latter is far more probable.