Poll: How well did Chevy do this off season?

[Duke749]

I'm right there with people saying the moves this offseason were sub-optimal, no doom and gloom from me though.

Yeh it was always going to be tough with the cap issues coming up. Think he did an ok job all things considered. Think people’s expectations have gone up in the recent year or so. A lot of the arguements seem far more opinionated then normal. Mostly I’d say that’s because we truly don’t know how things will work out yet.

 

[Ibanezrokr]

I vote B.


I love the helle, lowry and morrow deals. Mason/brossoit is no better or worse talent wise, but at least we're not over paying it 5x over this year. I have faith in helle, look how well we did without a decent back up last year, cant be any worse.

Im neutral about the wheeler deal, im fine with the term, but thats a stack of cash. I hope its front loaded for the first couple of years and trails off a bit. Still in comparison to other vets that are getting huge salaries past their prime, wheelers seems pretty reasonable. JoMo's I wish was longer. Im happy hes here and am shocked to the low hit for this term, but just wouldve liked to see this kid locked up. And i dont think theres anything he couldve done about the JT sitch.

Only real knock is the loss of armia, i wouldve liked to have seen multiple fence guys go than him. A package of petan/dano/+ wouldve been fine with me. If the habs are desperate to rebuild their offence, then throw them a bunch of options.

Overall pretty decent though.

 

[Shazzam]

Everyone always has the same response to TD rentals "if we had won the cup, no one would complain". But we didn't. Beyond that, the trade never at any time increased our odds by enough to justify the trade - unless it had worked - which it didn't. The vast majority of TD deals don't succeed to that degree. Therefore they are not a good bet. It is like buying lottery tickets. They are a horrible bet. A lot less is paid out in prizes than what is spent on tickets so it is bound to be a bad bet. Unless you win.

I don't think the Wheeler deal was a big negative. It was both a bit too long and a bit too much $$$. But it is a roll of the dice that I like much better than a TD rental.

Signing Helle was big compared to not signing him. It absolutely needed to be done, but all that was required was a market value contract. I don't think it was ever in doubt. So it is a C. C is not bad. It is average, like most things are. All of the other signings are C's also. It doesn't matter how many you get, if all your grades are C's, your GPA is a C. Call the Wheeler deal a C also. The Mason deal was a D. Avg - C-.

This is your thread. I'm just sticking to the criteria of the OP. I don't see room there for a trust bonus.

I know I'm not going to change your mind.

I was just responding to your earlier post about justifying my B grade.

As for the Helle signing, how a goalie coming off a Vezina like season sees his market value could very well have been quite different to how management sees it. Everyone thought Morrissey would be an easy deal too.

 

[Shazzam]

Just a comment regarding NHL rentals not panning out for the most part. Most of the teams try to bolster their lineups going into the playoffs. It's not fair to say that the vast majority of TD rentals don't work, because there can only be one team that it does work for. The ultimate SC winner. Does that mean this is a bad strategy? Not if it's done judiciously and with some timing. Almost everyone applauded Chevy for finding Stastny where others did not. Now, in hind sight, it was a bad deal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know I'm not going to change your mind.

I was just responding to your earlier post about justifying my B grade.

As for the Helle signing, how a goalie coming off a Vezina like season sees his market value could very well have been quite different to how management sees it. Everyone thought Morrissey would be an easy deal too.

Fair enough.

Small difference anyway, just seemed a little contradictory to me.

 

[AmericanDream]

Good:
- Small RFA signings (bottom six)
- Morrow
- Helle

In general these are some low-hanging fruits. But solid GM work never the less.

Bad:
- Mason / Armia
- Brossoit
- JoMo bridge
- Trouba
- Wheeler

I feel we could have gotten better return from the Mason & Armia deal. Goalies are hard to predict, but Broissoit has so far not been convincing as an NHL backup. Not a fan of bridge deals, JoMo will need to get paid after two seasons. Should he prove to be as offensively gifted as I think he could be we are in deep waters. Would have sought other alternatives for Trouba and Wheeler.

So my grade would be a D

Also my bold statement to help with the negativity:
The team was always going to be better next season than the last. A team this deep will win a cup within the next 5 years. Should be more though.

I quoted your post, but not entirely directed at you.
I think Chevy learned the lesson the Hawks did the past 5-6 years...you simply cannot pay guys like Mason and Armia contracts (or continue to pay them while taking away from other top players) when you can find those guys during the deadline every year.. Chevy had a pretty tight budget to sign these guys, and the players you cannot find out there (Trouba, Wheeler, Helle), he signed them...that is what you want, understand who your core is, and keep them signed...you can replace around them..what you cannot bounce back from is overpaying guys like Bryan Bickell, Marcus Kruger, Dave Bolland's of the world and have to gut your team because of it...he learned from the Hawks, I thought he had a solid off season though nothing spectacular IMO. He kept the right names and let the others go...

 

[Weezeric]

Where did I ask for that? Or even hint at that? I think I've been saying just the opposite. I expect our players to need market value contracts, just like everybody else's.

You said you gave Chevy no credit for he helle deal, because it was simply market value I guessed. Deals that are “market value” always seem like overpays, especially for UFAs. Just look at the Scheifele deal. It was market value. Now it’s a huge steal.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You said you gave Chevy no credit for he helle deal, because it was simply market value I guessed. Deals that are “market value” always seem like overpays, especially for UFAs. Just look at the Scheifele deal. It was market value. Now it’s a huge steal.

I remember some claiming that Helle was an overpay the day it was announced. Also some didn't like the term. Something like 'goalies are too unstable and don't normally get that much'.

We always have those expecting, even demanding team friendly contracts. And those for Wpg, which we always hear is the least desirable market in the league.

I didn't subtract credit from Chevy for the Helle deal either. But it is just doing what is expected.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Just a comment regarding NHL rentals not panning out for the most part. Most of the teams try to bolster their lineups going into the playoffs. It's not fair to say that the vast majority of TD rentals don't work, because there can only be one team that it does work for. The ultimate SC winner. Does that mean this is a bad strategy? Not if it's done judiciously and with some timing. Almost everyone applauded Chevy for finding Stastny where others did not. Now, in hind sight, it was a bad deal.

It isn't about being fair. The fact is that most TD rentals don't work out. It is a bad bet even before it is made precisely, as you say, because only 1 can work out.

What makes it a bad strategy is that the prices are massively inflated compared to normal prices, compared to the long term value in non-rental trades. If a rental like Stastny is worth a 1st + as a rental, then a similar player with term should be worth 5 firsts, plus. Or 3 or 4, or 8, whatever, depending on the player and the term. But you never see prices like that paid.

I gave Chevy credit at the time - against my better judgement - because it was an obvious good fit and a better price than most rentals. I admit it is now in hindsight that I don't like it. But I won't make that mistake again.

 

[KingBogo]

Went with a B. Not a perfect summer for Chevy but mostly got done what needed done. Kept a Stanley cup contender together with a little cap space left for some TD moves.

 

[Hunter368]

I’ve merged the two offseason threads.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I went with B mostly because it would have been nice to have at least one of Morrisey or Trouba signed to a long term deal. I guess losing Armia is unfortunate, but there is such a plethora of young forwards it shouldn't be too big of a deal. Got a backup goalie without major health concerns for a fraction of the price of Mason, which I think is good but might be somewhat risky. Wheeler, Lowry, Helle, Morrow, Tanev, Jmo signings are all good imo.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I am kind of a C- or D+ so I put C. I feel like we got worse as a team. Trouba is looking to leave, Morrissey situation looks too much like previous Trouba situation, Goaltender situation now 100% dependent upon health of Helle, no Armia/Stastny/Enstrom. I could see us dropping 10+ points from last year.

But ultimately for me, the measure of a GM is performance in the standings over time. So this could end up being an A if the kids that have another year under themselves really step up and keep us as a true cup contender. If we fall out of cup contender status this year by the end of the year, this grade holds --> the C- or D+.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Keep the team together under difficult circumstances is a major success. Didn't make any panic UFA signings. Solid B+

 

[Robinson2187]

C for me. A bit disappointed in the Wheeler and Morrisey deals and Brossoit doesn't exude confidence. I'm fine with the Armia/Mason deal-cap mgmt. Content with the other signings. You can't hold Chevy's feet to the fire for Trouba's situation as his hands are essentially tied there.

 

[Trinity]

Overall I say Chevy failed the offseason for the following reasons:

1. The Wheeler contract is just terrible
2. Couldn't close the deal on Stastny
3. Signed Morrissey to a bridge where I was hoping for a long-term deal
4. Couldn't close a long-term deal on Trouba

Not everyone will agree with me, but in my mind, those are some bad moves.

 

[Whileee]

Overall I say Chevy failed the offseason for the following reasons:

1. The Wheeler contract is just terrible
2. Couldn't close the deal on Stastny
3. Signed Morrissey to a bridge where I was hoping for a long-term deal
4. Couldn't close a long-term deal on Trouba

Not everyone will agree with me, but in my mind, those are some bad moves.

I think it's fair game to criticize Chevy for the Wheeler deal, since it's easy to assess what he did.

Looking at what Stastny signed for, I can't really see how the Jets could have gone that high on AAV while keeping their essential core together for the next few seasons.

I can't see how you can rate Chevy's performance on Morrissey and Trouba because we have no idea what their bargaining positions were and how adamant they were.

Trouba had arbitration rights, exercised them, and then likely played hardball on a long-term deal before a season where the Jets had very little cap space. I noted earlier in the year that Chevy sounded almost relieved that Trouba had filed for arbitration, because it made him ineligible to receive an offer sheet from another team, which Chevy might have had a hard time matching given his cap situation.

Other than making Morrissey sit indefinitely and trying to force him to sign a long-term deal that worked for the Jets but he didn't like, what were Chevy's options with him?

 

[Trinity]

I think it's fair game to criticize Chevy for the Wheeler deal, since it's easy to assess what he did.

Looking at what Stastny signed for, I can't really see how the Jets could have gone that high on AAV while keeping their essential core together for the next few seasons.

I can't see how you can rate Chevy's performance on Morrissey and Trouba because we have no idea what their bargaining positions were and how adamant they were.

Trouba had arbitration rights, exercised them, and then likely played hardball on a long-term deal before a season where the Jets had very little cap space. I noted earlier in the year that Chevy sounded almost relieved that Trouba had filed for arbitration, because it made him ineligible to receive an offer sheet from another team, which Chevy might have had a hard time matching given his cap situation.

Other than making Morrissey sit indefinitely and trying to force him to sign a long-term deal that worked for the Jets but he didn't like, what were Chevy's options with him?

So your argument is that a GM can't force a player to sign a contract, and yes that is true in all cases. I'm judging Chevy on his results and in my opinion, based on those results and my expectations, he failed.

 

[Whileee]

So your argument is that a GM can't force a player to sign a contract, and yes that is true in all cases. I'm judging Chevy on his results and in my opinion, based on those results and my expectations, he failed.

I'm saying your expectations aren't based on any understanding of the underlying situation related to the Morrissey and Trouba contracts, so it's not really possible to accurately assess his performance in that regard. I think you can judge him based on Wheeler's contract and to a large extent on Stastny's situation because we sort of know what the players and their agents demanded. Chevy agreed to pay Wheeler 8+ million starting next year, and he refused to pay Stastny 6.5 million or so starting this year. We have no idea what sort of demands he resisted from Trouba or Morrissey, so our expectations are based on ignorance of crucial information.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Think he did an admirable job.
Mostly intact.
Dumped Mason.
I doubt Armia is a catastrophic loss.
Helle signed ...a bit concerned there hope it’s a good thing.
Maybe got a decent back up?
Kept Wheeler
Got Jomo done
Can’t really fault him on Trouba that would be insane to pay 8mil if rumours are true.
I think we will be 100-105 points barring tons of injuries.
Get your cilantro ready and enjoy the ride.

 

[Duke749]

I'm saying your expectations aren't based on any understanding of the underlying situation related to the Morrissey and Trouba contracts, so it's not really possible to accurately assess his performance in that regard. I think you can judge him based on Wheeler's contract and to a large extent on Stastny's situation because we sort of know what the players and their agents demanded. Chevy agreed to pay Wheeler 8+ million starting next year, and he refused to pay Stastny 6.5 million or so starting this year. We have no idea what sort of demands he resisted from Trouba or Morrissey, so our expectations are based on ignorance of crucial information.

Yeh it’s tough to judge those two situations when we don’t know all the circumstances.

 

[libertarian]

What makes it a bad strategy is that the prices are massively inflated compared to normal prices, compared to the long term value in non-rental trades. If a rental like Stastny is worth a 1st + as a rental, then a similar player with term should be worth 5 firsts, plus. Or 3 or 4, or 8, whatever, depending on the player and the term. But you never see prices like that paid.

I gave Chevy credit at the time - against my better judgement - because it was an obvious good fit and a better price than most rentals. I admit it is now in hindsight that I don't like it. But I won't make that mistake again.

Sorry for this late reply. To busy recently to read all the threads.

I disagree with your assessment that the Stastny deal was not good value for the Jets. While I understand the argument that unless you win it all you wasted assets like #1 picks. But I believe that what the Jets got back in PO experience for a young team with virtually no PO experience is still valuable for the Jets long term future success. I don't think the Jets beat the president trophy winning Preds last spring without Stastny. He, Scheif, Wheels, Helle and Buff is who won it for us and without Stastny I don't think the Jets win that series. Not sure you can quantify how valuable the experience gained by the Jets young players got by beating the NHL's best reg season team in the 7 game in their barn is to the teams over all future success but it deffinitly will help and not hurt. All championship teams need to learn how to win the PO's before they win it all. I think the Jets got that last PO's and that make the Stastny deal worth it for me.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

All championship teams need to learn how to win the PO's before they win it all.

The 1969 NY Mets beg to differ. They were crap on a stick for years until suddenly, they weren't. Sorry, I just don't buy into this whole "playoff experience" business. Every player on the Jets has experienced the increased intensity of playoff hockey at some time in their lives. They know what it's about, they know what it takes. Or they sure as hell should. Just say no to rentals.

 

[libertarian]

The 1969 NY Mets beg to differ. They were crap on a stick for years until suddenly, they weren't. Sorry, I just don't buy into this whole "playoff experience" business. Every player on the Jets has experienced the increased intensity of playoff hockey at some time in their lives. They know what it's about, they know what it takes. Or they sure as hell should. Just say no to rentals.

I think there is a big difference between PO experience against Jr or European teams then playing against the best players in the world. BTW players like Gretzky and Mario have both spoken on how the PO experience they got before their 1st cup was absolutely valuable to winning a cup.

As for the Mets. They were called the Miracle Mets for a reason. One example from 50 years ago does not booster your argument.

 

[JetsFan815]

I quoted your post, but not entirely directed at you.
I think Chevy learned the lesson the Hawks did the past 5-6 years...you simply cannot pay guys like Mason and Armia contracts (or continue to pay them while taking away from other top players) when you can find those guys during the deadline every year.. Chevy had a pretty tight budget to sign these guys, and the players you cannot find out there (Trouba, Wheeler, Helle), he signed them...that is what you want, understand who your core is, and keep them signed...you can replace around them..what you cannot bounce back from is overpaying guys like Bryan Bickell, Marcus Kruger, Dave Bolland's of the world and have to gut your team because of it...he learned from the Hawks, I thought he had a solid off season though nothing spectacular IMO. He kept the right names and let the others go...

Did he though? He signed long term deals for aging vets like Little and Wheeler while Morrissey was bridged. Also no deal yet for Connor and Laine. I am in particular concerned the he might bridge Connor next season.