Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Panthers 6, Penguins 4

[plaidchuck]

nothing thats happened over the last few years regarding coaching/systems is surprising. these things are cyclical.

before therrien the pens were a totally garbage team led by player-friendly edzo, who had no idea what he was doing. there was no system/identity/discipline. complete disarray.

Whether this is true or not, it doesn't speak well of the players. They need a new coach every 4 years to play more disciplined?

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Here's how it's probably going to go, depending on the circumstances:

1) IF Shero stands pat and makes merely a Poni type trade (or no trade at all) and we lose in the first round, Bylsma is safe, but he'll be on a short leash. Any sort of bad streak during the regular season he'll probably get canned.

2) IF Shero makes a Guerin+Kunitz type deal, something that will be deemed as getting us over the hump and having an "ideal" lineup, but we eat it in the first round, DB's done.

3) Regardless of lineup or health, IF they look bad in the first round the way they did against the Flyers, he's gone.

As weird as that series was, it baffles me that DB couldn't pick up on it and make some adjustments after the first few goal-fests. Especially when you see first-hand how shaky MAF was playing. If you need to tighten up things defensively then do so! The fact that we had a fully healthy roster didn't help his case much either.

 

[Mo Wanchuk]

Whether this is true or not, it doesn't speak well of the players. They need a new coach every 4 years to play more disciplined?

Such is life in the NHL. Coaches are hired, to be fired.

 

[Shockmaster]

Whether this is true or not, it doesn't speak well of the players. They need a new coach every 4 years to play more disciplined?

That's why I think the Penguins should keep Bylsma, but hire a hard-ass as an assistant coach. With Bylsma as HC, the players won't feel like they are being suffocated like they were with Therrien, but there will be a presence there that holds the players accountable when they make dumb plays.

 

[Shrimper]

Sometimes those teams are harder to play. Those are a bunch of guys who want to make a name for themselves in the NHL. They are playing with playoff/career intensity.

Yep. Those players are playing for their NHL careers in some cases.

Paul Martin not at practice today.

 

[Shockmaster]

Yep. Those players are playing for their NHL careers in some cases.

Paul Martin not at practice today.

Crap. He broke his wrists when he scored that goal, didn't he?

 

[Shrimper]

Mustache boy being decided. One of Cooke, Orpik and Eaton.

It's Cooke.

 

[KIRK]

And our record with both in the lineup?

I believe . . .

5-2 with both
6-2 with just Despres
1-2 with just Borts

 

[spizzle420]

wonder if martin out has anything to do with recent addition of Eaton

/delusional

 

[vikingGoalie]

Whether this is true or not, it doesn't speak well of the players. They need a new coach every 4 years to play more disciplined?

they need some hard ***** in the locker room on the team that won't let other players play like crap without being held accountable.

Crosby being the likely source. It has to be someone who is playing well themselves and others respect. i seriously have seen more careful handling of the puck by my beer league team then what we saw at times against florida.

peer pressure can accomplish wonders...

 

[JTG]

Didn't know where else to put it, but we have more faceoffs won this season than any team in the league aside from Toronto (671 for Toronto, 651 for us). We are currently 5th in the league in faceoff win percentage. Geno dragging the team down in that regard.

 

[Tender Rip]

Didn't know where else to put it, but we have more faceoffs won this season than any team in the league aside from Toronto

Indicative of there not being that much flow to our game also.... I wonder if there is a stat somewhere on which team ice the puck more?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Thanks for the reply. Can't say that I disagree with any of that. But I will ask one thing: How patient? How many years of Sid and Geno do you waste on what has become a hope, and is even one too much?

Really, it's a small matter. I think we all like to play arm chair coaches and sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong. There are no repercussions when we are wrong. That's why I try to cut DB a break, even though he does **** that pisses me off. I still ***** when he does things I know are stupid, like putting Neal at the point on the PP and benching Vitale, not holding vets accountable, etc.

I just feel like he isn't the moron he is made out to be and he has the capacity to be a hell of a coach, but he seems to have to learn hard lessons before he changes.

I try to be objective... Ie.

- putting Neal at point on the PP was a bonehead move, but he has made half a dozen adjustments on the PP I've noticed and they have scored in ten straight games or more.

- I thought he ****ed Tangradi over, but he is giving BB a legit shot.

- he benches Despres for idiotic reasons, but he is the reason Despres stayed up.

- he unfairly benched Jeffrey, but he is giving him a shot now.

Some things I can't honestly defend: benching Vitale, his line matching and stating the 4th line can be a shutdown line, allowing TK to keep playing, etc.

I think most of his weaknesses can be corrected, if he opens his mind more. His biggest problem will never go away until he becomes a disciplinarian. I don't know of any great coaches in any sport who didn't hold their players accountable.

When he finally realizes that, then I think DB will become the coach we are hoping for. Maybe he will never change, I really have no idea. Benching TK is the first step, but I'm not sure he will do it.

 

[wgknestrick]

Really, it's a small matter. I think we all like to play arm chair coaches and sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong. There are no repercussions when we are wrong. That's why I try to cut DB a break, even though he does **** that pisses me off. I still ***** when he does things I know are stupid, like putting Neal at the point on the PP and benching Vitale, not holding vets accountable, etc.

I just feel like he isn't the moron he is made out to be and he has the capacity to be a hell of a coach, but he seems to have to learn hard lessons before he changes.

I try to be objective... Ie.

- putting Neal at point on the PP was a bonehead move, but he has made half a dozen adjustments on the PP I've noticed and they have scored in ten straight games or more.

- I thought he ****ed Tangradi over, but he is giving BB a legit shot.

- he benches Despres for idiotic reasons, but he is the reason Despres stayed up.

- he unfairly benched Jeffrey, but he is giving him a shot now.

Some things I can't honestly defend: benching Vitale, his line matching and stating the 4th line can be a shutdown line, allowing TK to keep playing, etc.

I think most of his weaknesses can be corrected, if he opens his mind more. His biggest problem will never go away until he becomes a disciplinarian. I don't know of any great coaches in any sport who didn't hold their players accountable.

When he finally realizes that, then I think DB will become the coach we are hoping for. Maybe he will never change, I really have no idea. Benching TK is the first step, but I'm not sure he will do it.

I will not forgive him for never scratching Craig Adams or Tanner Glass. As bad of a year TK is having, he is still significantly above those 2 IMO. I still want to ball kick the person who thought it would be a good idea to sign Tanner fn Glass to a 2yr contract at 1.1mil/yr.

We have the potential to dress a very skilled lineup with generally talented players, but we choose to constantly dress Adams and Glass. Imagine if our 4th line had Vitale, Boychuk, and DJ/TK on it?

Bylsma is generally a good coach, but he has to start cracking the whip. His players are constantly making poor decisions that are costing the Pens games. Crosby/Letang/Neal/Malkin included. Don't even get me started on the goaltending coaching.

 

[Shady Machine]

I will not forgive him for never scratching Craig Adams or Tanner Glass. As bad of a year TK is having, he is still significantly above those 2 IMO. I still want to ball kick the person who thought it would be a good idea to sign Tanner fn Glass to a 2yr contract at 1.1mil/yr.

We have the potential to dress a very skilled lineup with generally talented players, but we choose to constantly dress Adams and Glass. Imagine if our 4th line had Vitale, Boychuk, and DJ/TK on it?

Bylsma is generally a good coach, but he has to start cracking the whip. His players are constantly making poor decisions that are costing the Pens games. Crosby/Letang/Neal/Malkin included. Don't even get me started on the goaltending coaching.

I don't want to imagine a 4th line with Boychuk on it because it would suck. A 4th line doesn't have to have 2 guys where offense goes to die (Glass, Adams) but it shouldn't have tiny non grinders on it. A 4th line is supposed to have an identity. It can't all be measured by advanced statistics. Intangibles in hockey do exist.