Post-Game Talk: Plus/Minus: Fleury & Sid against Western Canada

[ColePens]

Williams has scored at a 1.33 ppg rate since joining the Kings in the playoffs.

Kunitz has scored at a 1.54 ogg rate since joining the Pens in the playoffs.

In 73 games Williams has 54 points.

In 77 games Kunitz has 50 points.

They are pretty much identical players.

Ewwww get those stats out of my face. They don't tell the story.

And also don't over-think my comment. Timely goals give you the ability to do whatever the **** you want out there. Max Talbot in Game 7.... was a free pass for the rest of his life. Williams has that knack in LA. Kunitz does not. He does not have that timely goal scorer knack in the postseason. Even go further... Quick's playoff performances, Peyton Mannings playoff performances (on the flip side of the argument). Kunitz is nowhere near that realm for the NHL when discussing big time playoff performers.

Now before people take this out of context. I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything. He's just having the worst year of his career, in my opinion. He's lazy as ****. My main point is he needs to start building right now to the playoffs. Not worrying about Kunitz and how he's been playing is down right silly. Tonight was a great start to his season. It only took 5 months.

 

[The GM]

Based on a 4th liner judgement or a 2nd liner? It's not his fault this team insists on 4th liners in the top 6.

Either. I was not comparing him to horny who didn't play well either. The difference is horny is an NHL caliber top 6 player, he is just getting his rhythm back after missing time, whereas ARCH is a fringe player at best, be it on the 2nd or 4th line. The problem with putting him on the 4th line is it impacts the identity of the 4th line as he is not a prototypical 4th line player. He may have his
Moments, but not sure anyone can say with a straight face he should be in the lineup full time.

 

[ColePens]

By the by, if this team was ever going to click and find it's stride... this west coast swing has been PERFECT so far. In every way. Team building, great play, chemistry, records, etc. If this sets the tone leading into March, April, and hopefully May/June... then thank the lord it finally clicked.

 

[Penguinator]

+ Clamato

- Clamato haters

Well... I do prefer V-8, do you have that in the States?

Oh and congrats to Marc-André Fleury!

Fleury surpassed Tom Barrasso's single-season franchise record of seven shutouts, set in 1997-98. It was the 36th shutout of Fleury's career and came two nights after he shut out the Edmonton Oilers 2-0. Fleury has gone 131:40 without allowing a goal.

 

[T1K]

I agree completely. Sell off Sutter and Kunitz in the off season. We can get picks in the draft for Kunitz and sell off Sutter for a pick and a third liner. We are completely in the position this offseason to add salary.

Right now, lets try for the cup amp up Kunitz and Sutter's value and make a run.

Definitely. I can tolerate Kunitz on this team for the duration of his contract, but I absolutely loathe Sutter. Hopefully Sundqvist is ready for 3rd line duty next season. Hopefully both of them are gone though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Now before people take this out of context. I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything. He's just having the worst year of his career, in my opinion. He's lazy as ****. My main point is he needs to start building right now to the playoffs. Not worrying about Kunitz and how he's been playing is down right silly. Tonight was a great start to his season. It only took 5 months.

Dustin Brown was given the same ultimatum. Williams and Richards too. I know completely what you are saying. I think the best for the Pittsburgh Penguins is to move on from Kunitz. Just like the Kings were best to move on from Williams and Richards from the last cup win. Still, you need to actually make those moves. For the most part nobody is winning in those types of deal.

Anyways, I love Kunitz. I'll be sad when he leaves, one of the best Pens in the new era. Consistent, plays hard and brings the type of leadership you want to a franchise. Should be a good trade chip in the off season.

 

[Iffyiffiffer]

People were hating on Kunitz for his Canadian Olympic bid. People were hating on Kunitz the last two years. The outrage about him is ridiculous.

Sure he was "hated" if you leave out the context. The problem was that he has never been in his entire career in the top 12 canadian forwards, especially at 34. That says not much about his NHL status or usefulness to the Penguins, and it definitely wasn't just Pens fans going "wut??" when was selected regardless of his stats.

Maybe I'm forgetting or mixing things up because all these seasons of Pens inepitude are blurring together, but I thought the general argument until this season has mostly been KCD sucks, not that Kunitz alone sucks. Most of the argument has been get another winger and move Dupuis down the lineup, but while we focused on that Kunitz has gotten worse. Hell, half the time people were arguing about who should have him (as a benefit!), Malkin or Crosby, and most of the talking of Crosby-Neal involved moving Dupuis down, not getting Crosby away from Kunitz, unless it also involved giving Kunitz to Malkin to help Geno out.

People wanted him as a 3rd wheel because neither Kunitz nor Dupuis are going to win one on one battles, but Kunitz paired with someone who could was fine. It's the same thing now with Hornqvist. We don't hate Hornqvist or want him out of the top 6 because he isn't going to skate around or through anyone when Crosby or Malkin are crowded, but he's (was at least) just fine if we have the opposite winger being someone who can and not leaving all that up to the center...which is why the prevailing popular line now is PCH with Perron being the one to make you pay when you crowd Crosby.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Name me a cup winner in the last ten years that has moved out a player like Kunitz.

I guess you could argue that Simmonds for Richards, but in reality did they think Simmonds would become a perennial 30 goal scorer?

Boston moved Wideman and got Horton who was huge in the playoffs that year if I recall correctly.

LA moved Johnson for Carter, who had a similar effect as well.

 

[drpepper]

I'll look at the shift charts when they're up, but I think Gaudreau might have been the guy who was supposed to be doing that. It wasn't so much that he wasn't as it was that he was incapable. Couple of times he tried to waterski away from the play, but Crosby shook him easily.

It definitely could be. The defenders from the Flames weren't able to really adjust their gap with the first line on the ice.

I also think the Pens did a much better job of changing up the breakout (changing where on the ice, the tempo, and the passing vs chipping vs skating with the puck).

It will be interesting to see how the Pens look against Eastern teams (DET, WSH) in the next week or so.

 

[Gurglesons]

Boston moved Wideman and got Horton who was huge in the playoffs that year if I recall correctly.

LA moved Johnson for Carter, who had a similar effect as well.

So we should move Ehrhoff or Martin for an impact winger?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well... I do prefer V-8, do you have that in the States?

Oh and congrats to Marc-André Fleury!

Fleury surpassed Tom Barrasso's single-season franchise record of seven shutouts, set in 1997-98. It was the 36th shutout of Fleury's career and came two nights after he shut out the Edmonton Oilers 2-0. Fleury has gone 131:40 without allowing a goal.

Couldn't tell you...I'm Canadian, haha.

 

[tom_servo]

Williams has scored at a 1.33 ppg rate since joining the Kings in the playoffs.

Kunitz has scored at a 1.54 ogg rate since joining the Pens in the playoffs.

In 73 games Williams has 54 points.

In 77 games Kunitz has 50 points.

They are pretty much identical players.

I think you figured those averages wrong.

 

[Human]

Geno did look like he was high on that double minor. That was something else.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Yes we have v8 and its from Campbell's soup in New Jersey haha

 

[crawz87]

“Chris Kunitz had one of the best games I've seen him play in a long time,†Johnston said. “He was skating and making plays.â€

At least this tells that Johnston understands Kunitz had been playing average for awhile.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Boston moved Wideman and got Horton who was huge in the playoffs that year if I recall correctly.

LA moved Johnson for Carter, who had a similar effect as well.

Boston also got Greg Campbell in that trade, who was maybe their most important player in their cup run.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Man I wish we were able to lock Perron up long term now! 5.5 x 7 I wub this dude <3

 

[Tumty]

By the by, if this team was ever going to click and find it's stride... this west coast swing has been PERFECT so far. In every way. Team building, great play, chemistry, records, etc. If this sets the tone leading into March, April, and hopefully May/June... then thank the lord it finally clicked.

After one good game overall?

 

[steveg]

“Chris Kunitz had one of the best games I've seen him play in a long time,” Johnston said. “He was skating and making plays.”

At least this tells that Johnston understands Kunitz had been playing average for awhile.

Wow, did Johnston really say that? I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It's GREAT that he sees what we see...if that quote is accurate, then he essentially said "Kunitz played his best game in a long time because in THIS game, he was doing two things he hasn't been doing much of lately -- skating, and making plays." That's exactly how most of us here have described Kunitz's play this season. BUT -- the bad thing is, if he SEES this, then why has he, as the coach, not DONE something about it? Move the guy down, bench him for a few games, whatever...

I don't know how, as a coach, you can have the respect of your team when EVERYONE sees someone "not skating and not making plays," INCLUDING the coach, but the coach "lets it slide." The ONLY way I could see MJ "letting it slide," is if he believes/knows that what appears as "laziness" is actually "injury," and that his play would improve in conjunction with the injury healing. Otherwise, I don't get this...

GOOD that MJ SEES the issues, but not so good that he lets it slide (again, assuming no underlying injury...)

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Not about the game, but some interesting PP stats.

As we all know the Pens have been shorthanded a whopping 20 times more than they have had PP's. They have been shorthanded more than any but one other team in the league.

The NYI's by comparison have had 40 more PP's than they have been short handed.

And yet DESPITE that fact ................................................

The Pens have the third highest differential between PP goals for and PP goals given up.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-power-play-goal-differential/2014/

Only behind Detroit and Chicago. Who by the way get the 4th and 5th most PP opportunities in the league.

Which was interesting to me, as the Pens may be screwed over by the refs, but at least it is good to see that they do the most by far than any other team in the league with what they little that are given.

 

[PensPlz]

Williams has scored at a 1.33 ppg rate since joining the Kings in the playoffs.

Kunitz has scored at a 1.54 ogg rate since joining the Pens in the playoffs.

In 73 games Williams has 54 points.

In 77 games Kunitz has 50 points.

They are pretty much identical players.

Why can't we have both?

I'd rather see Sutter gone than Kunitz.

 

[crawz87]

Wow, did Johnston really say that? I'm not sure if that's good or bad. It's GREAT that he sees what we see...if that quote is accurate, then he essentially said "Kunitz played his best game in a long time because in THIS game, he was doing two things he hasn't been doing much of lately -- skating, and making plays." That's exactly how most of us here have described Kunitz's play this season. BUT -- the bad thing is, if he SEES this, then why has he, as the coach, not DONE something about it? Move the guy down, bench him for a few games, whatever...

I don't know how, as a coach, you can have the respect of your team when EVERYONE sees someone "not skating and not making plays," INCLUDING the coach, but the coach "lets it slide." The ONLY way I could see MJ "letting it slide," is if he believes/knows that what appears as "laziness" is actually "injury," and that his play would improve in conjunction with the injury healing. Otherwise, I don't get this...

GOOD that MJ SEES the issues, but not so good that he lets it slide (again, assuming no underlying injury...)

Yea it caught me off guard too, but he did say it.

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/pensgalleries/7684993-74/crosby-penguins-fleury#axzz3R2kL0JAQ

 

[Penguinator]

Not about the game, but some interesting PP stats.

As we all know the Pens have been shorthanded a whopping 20 times more than they have had PP's. They have been shorthanded more than any but one other team in the league.

The NYI's by comparison have had 40 more PP's than they have been short handed.

And yet DESPITE that fact ................................................

The Pens have the third highest differential between PP goals for and PP goals given up.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/team-power-play-goal-differential/2014/

Only behind Detroit and Chicago. Who by the way get the 4th and 5th most PP opportunities in the league.

Which was interesting to me, as the Pens may be screwed over by the refs, but at least it is good to see that they do the most by far than any other team in the league with what they little that are given.

Interesting/annoying! It's like drinking a V-8 (or Clamato ugh...), and feeling that it would be just si much better to ****ing pour it in what's left of the bottle.

 

[Shrimper]

Fleury against Western Conference teams this season;

9-2-1 - 1.58 GAA & 94.34SV%

 

[Tender Rip]

Very little wrong with that game except for the PP.

And yes, like many others I was just watching that double minor in absolute amazement that Geno could look that bad/dumb/uncoordinated.

Kills me that Bennett is not getting the chance to play his way back on Johnston's good side. He and Malkin absolutely owned in most of their games together. I just don't get it.