seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I wonder how much of it has to do with that Gretzky quote saying Forsberg was top-5 of all-time.
Sid has never been a dangler.I think he is the best player in the league, but his "hands" are nowhere near best.Very rarely you see him do magical dkeing like Malkin and Dats.I think if you would watch a homage to the goals he has scored you'd beg to differ that he has "not the greatest hands". I know you have seen Crosby play many times so I wonder what you're thinking. If you are comparing him to the hands of Lemieux then I can see, but there are few players in the NHL with better hands than him right now. Datsyuk, maybe Malkin.
I wonder how much of it has to do with that Gretzky quote saying Forsberg was top-5 of all-time.
Lemieux or lindros.
Show me how Trottier's ten year prime was better than Forsberg's other then games played.
Hasek. Nobody can come close to finding another goalie like him.
He OWNS this thread. Uncomparable.Hasek. Nobody can come close to finding another goalie like him.
You guys are in dreamland. Wow.
B/S.
Trottier was not better in the playoffs than Forsberg
... I've seen Trottier play, many times. He wasn't as good in his era as Forsberg was in his.
When did I ever say something like, but that was in the 80's?
Of course linemates don't matter at all to you eh?
Forsberg was the second best offensive player in the league in his ten year prime, Trottier was 4th...
Forsberg was the best offensive player tied with Jagr in his ten year prime, Trottier wasn't.
Forsberg was better. He was just as good a hitter, and if we consider puck control a form of defense he was on par with him defensively as well.
I agree that Bryan Trottier was probably a better player than Peter Forsberg ever was. He absolutely without question accomplished more.For sure Trottier had the best single linemate in Bossy.. but you're barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to make team arguments for Forsberg. Forsberg played on a very strong cup contending team his entire prime. Sakic, Roy, Blake, Bourque etc..
Trottier did accomplish more than Forsberg did. But I do believe that he also had better help doing so. Milan Hejduk simply does not compare to Mike Bossy. Adam Foote does not compare to Denis Potvin.
I agree that when comparing Trottier to Forsberg it does not matter. Both played on such highly succesful teams that the "teammate argument" is irrelevant to me. That argument becomes an issue when arguing players from say the '85 Oilers vs. the '75 Caps.One thing that could probably be noted on Trottier's behalf: Unlike Forsberg, I'm sure Trottier's line was always the one getting the most attention from the opposition's top defensive players. While Forsberg didn't have the benefit of a Bossy-level talent on his line, Trottier never had the benefit of Joe Sakic taking attention away from him either. Just sayin'.
Both guys played on such stacked teams though, it's pretty hard to argue that one had such an advantage over the other.
Infact, he started to decline a lot earlier, and if Forsberg still had both ankles he'd likely still be one of the best players today.
now i've seen everything. using potvin and bossy to discredit trottier. bryan trottier, as unassailable and visibly dominant a non-generational superstar as this game has ever seen.
IF. IF trottier hadn't played in five straight stanley cup finals + the 1981 canada cup, maybe he would have continued to put up 100 points into his 12th season. or maybe if he had taken the entire '84-'85 regular season off to heal and regenerate and just came back for the playoffs...
trottier declined earlier? trottier ran out of gas after the fifth finals run, at age 28. that was his 10th year in the league. forsberg only played 128 NHL games from his 10th season on. when healthy, he was still one of the best players in the for sure, but he was broken by then. and forsberg had far fewer miles on his body than trottier when he broke.
fact of the matter is, peak vs. peak, it's pretty close. i can't even definitely decide which one i would take though i tend towards trottier because in his best regular season, forsberg won the scoring championship over markus naslund only because naslund choked in the last game of the season. in his best regular season, trottier won the scoring championship over guy lafleur and marcel dionne at the height of their powers. but both guys did their best work in the playoffs, and in my opinion their playoff peaks are very close.
career vs. career, how is it even a question? his 10th season and after, trottier still put up three PPG years in FULL seasons. forsberg put up PPG years in frustratingly abbreviated seasons, and that's after having two full seasons off in the middle to rest up and heal.
forsberg was remarkably physical for a skill player. he could and did run over guys. but trottier was devastasting physically. not just devastastingly physical for a skill player, devastingly physical period. he played a much more physical game and his body held up much better.
The guy talks about how much linemates matter, and they do, and Trottier played with a top 5 goalscorer, and a top 5 defenseman (offensively and defensively) during his entire prime, yet on a per game basis still wasn't as good offensively compared to his peers as Forsberg was, in the regular season, and in the playoffs. Forsberg played with Foote, and some decent lines for maybe 4 or 5 seasons.
What is with all this discrediting talk? I'm not aloud to try and make as accurate a comparison as possible (which involves factoring in who you play with and against), and you're going to tell me having those linemates didn't factor in his production, and that it wasn't more of an edge than the situation Forsberg was in? I mean it surely wasn't a bad one, but honestly I think who's better between the two is more of an opinion, and neither one could possibly be that much better than the other that it could be decisive, or someone's opinion could be wrong. I'm aware of all stats possible when comparing the two, have seen Trottier play enough times, and I just don't see the clear edge, if any, that Trottier supposedly has on him.
Regarding the second bolded part of your post, Forsberg played 7 less games than Naslund that year, and his ankle started to become an issue (along with many other past injuries) around the time they paired Forsberg with Tanguay/Hejduk and he started tearing things up. How you can give an edge to Trottier for a peak season based on Naslund "choking away the scoring lead", is rather curious.