GWT: PL Matchweek 29

[Live in the Now]

Only need this many more wins:

 

[les Habs]

Ceballos has looked quite good lately.

He's looked as inconsistent as always.

Mou has lost the plot, it's almost sad to see.

Is this "sad" as in hilarious? You know, like when the kids say something is dope they don't mean it's dumb but rather cool. Or how the kids say something is "sick" they don't mean it's ill but again rather cool.

Holy shit man, Billy Gilmour is just absolutely class

He looked very good today. It's only Everton, but still. Nobody stockpiles young talent like your lot.

He’s ok offensively but I think he might genuinely be the best defensive RB in the world.

Yeah, he could use some work going forward, but even there he had some moments today.

Hes been under the rated for some time but does anyone think Gundogen is still good?

Never rated him and still don't.

 

[Havre]

Once again Mourinho taking more points over the weekend than Guardiola.

 

[Chimaera]

The revisionism about Pogba, now that he's made it clear, and his agent has made it clear that he wants out is going to be pretty ridiculous.

Sure, he hasn't performed well enough to justify that transfer fee (and really, who has with gigantic transfers) but to act like he never was good, or is just a bum is going to be crazy.

 

[Havre]

People, or at least many, don't like him so.... similar with Mourinho. They are judged by other standards than many others.

I really don't like Pogba, and I think he was overhyped at Juventus, but still very good. Even last season at Utd he was very good. Not world class dominant, but very good.

I think with a motivated Pogba Utd are not that far off competing for the PL title. Liverpool will regress to the mean at some point and who knows what will happen at City. Suddenly you win the league with 80 points again - and Utd are not that far off being capable of 80+ points. Not saying it is likely, but it isn't that far fetched.

Then again Utd will not have a motivated Pogba next year so... can they find someone as good or better? Difficult I would say - unless they spend 100m on N'Dombele

 

[The Abusement Park]

Apart from a few Scholesian long passes he tries to dribble far too long far too often and also far too often resulting in turnovers.

Dude I know you don’t like Pogba but you don’t have to lie about his performances here to justify how good Bruno has been since he’s joined.

 

[Chimaera]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't like Pogba at all. But he's a very good player who has not had much around him to help him do what he can do at all. I think some of his antics, his mediocre effort at times, and the me first stuff is a bit much.

I think it's fair to say that United supporters are disappointed in what he's done, dislike how he acts, and probably would be happier to see him leave (for a good price). But to flog him in the media and act like he's been dire is really misinformed at best. What manager really put him in a position to succeed? What players have been brought in to help unlock what he does best? Mercurial is a good word for Pogba, but if you have his obvious talents and gifts, you need to do whatever you can to help him play best. It's no coincidence that the best Pogba has looked in the recent past is when he felt supported and played next to Kante. Maybe United can make that happen if Chelsea look to sell. Maybe if that's not possible, maybe the added help of Bruno and finding something out of Fred/McTominay could do it. I realize the bridges have been burnt now, but there's no doubt that Pogba is talented.

Can anyone say with an objective look at it, that at any time in United's lineup, he got what he needed to be the best Pogba?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Real reflections on that Chelsea-Everton match:

• Mount is back in impeccable form - this is a few games in a row he's played extremely well in, clearly that downspell earlier in the winter was just the ups and downs of a young player finding his groove. MOTM for me. The team is completely different when he's on the field and off of it, he's really the only midfielder making those penetrative runs.
• Gilmour is extremely confident and composed, calm as all hell. Would love if we rotated him in more with Jorg for the rest of the season. Also adapted nicely to being pushed further up the field when RJ came on, even if I think he does look better in that deeper architect position.
• Best game Barkley's had in a Chelsea kit, I reckon.
• Zouma scares me a lot, and I think Christensen should (and probably will when at 100% fitness) start ahead of him. He's lucky that Rudiger is very good.
• Pedro was absolutely electric. He hasn't had many games like this one this season.
• Giroud was excellent excellent excellent.
• Nice to see Anjorin and Broja get debuts.
• Would've liked to see us make it 5 or 6.
• So obviously Ancelotti is an infinitely better coach than Duncan Ferguson. But the difference between this match and the one a few months back was stark for Everton. Whereas at Goodison Everton were flying into every tackle and playing extremely aggressive, they were super timid today.
• Richarlison was far too relaxed defensively, should've been back deeper harrassing Gilmour. Huge part of Everton's win in the fall came from Richarlison giving Jorginho shit.
• Pickford needed a good game today and he got it.

Yeah, the midfield trio was really impressive, although Everton's midfield pair wasn't too difficult of a challenge. It's matches like this and some others where Barkley looks like a quality player. Mount showed his big potential again after struggling for awhile. This season has been big for his development. Gilmour is future locked-in starter and potential captain material.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't like Pogba at all. But he's a very good player who has not had much around him to help him do what he can do at all. I think some of his antics, his mediocre effort at times, and the me first stuff is a bit much.

I think it's fair to say that United supporters are disappointed in what he's done, dislike how he acts, and probably would be happier to see him leave (for a good price). But to flog him in the media and act like he's been dire is really misinformed at best. What manager really put him in a position to succeed? What players have been brought in to help unlock what he does best? Mercurial is a good word for Pogba, but if you have his obvious talents and gifts, you need to do whatever you can to help him play best. It's no coincidence that the best Pogba has looked in the recent past is when he felt supported and played next to Kante. Maybe United can make that happen if Chelsea look to sell. Maybe if that's not possible, maybe the added help of Bruno and finding something out of Fred/McTominay could do it. I realize the bridges have been burnt now, but there's no doubt that Pogba is talented.

Can anyone say with an objective look at it, that at any time in United's lineup, he got what he needed to be the best Pogba?

This is the first time in years where our midfield has actually looked decent if even good. McTominay has looked very good in the DM/ball winning role, Fred has been a revelation lately and been brilliant in moving the ball from offense to defense, and I don’t think much has to be said about how good Bruno has been.

In years prior Pogba has been basically the only decent option in midfield and he was tasked with playing responsible defensively, transitioning the ball at an elite level, and according to a lot of people wasn’t scoring enough. I mean that’s a ridiculous set of responsibilities for one midfielder even if he technically has the ability to do that. There were stretches were he was able to do all that, some stretches where he was great offensively but poor defensively, and some stretches where he was bad all around.

But the issue is that he was asked to make the midfield tick all on his own, and that’s an impossible task. Has he lived up to his price tag? I wouldn’t say so, but to say he’s never been good here is pushing a narrative that is completely driven by bias.

 

[Jussi]

Dude I know you don’t like Pogba but you don’t have to lie about his performances here to justify how good Bruno has been since he’s joined.

Oh I like Pogba per se. But what I hate about him is his inconsistency, even within a match.

 

[hatterson]

This is the first time in years where our midfield has actually looked decent if even good. McTominay has looked very good in the DM/ball winning role, Fred has been a revelation lately and been brilliant in moving the ball from offense to defense, and I don’t think much has to be said about how good Bruno has been.

In years prior Pogba has been basically the only decent option in midfield and he was tasked with playing responsible defensively, transitioning the ball at an elite level, and according to a lot of people wasn’t scoring enough. I mean that’s a ridiculous set of responsibilities for one midfielder even if he technically has the ability to do that. There were stretches were he was able to do all that, some stretches where he was great offensively but poor defensively, and some stretches where he was bad all around.

But the issue is that he was asked to make the midfield tick all on his own, and that’s an impossible task. Has he lived up to his price tag? I wouldn’t say so, but to say he’s never been good here is pushing a narrative that is completely driven by bias.

Not only was he asked to make the midfield tick on his own, other teams knew that too and would overload him. It wasn't remotely uncommon for him to get the ball and have 2 or 3 players already closing him down and the other midfielders just meandering around.

He was put in a role that only an absolute workhorse could do passably and that's never been his game.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Oh I like Pogba per se. But what I hate about him is his inconsistency, even within a match.

But the issue is that you said he’s never been good here. Which 1) is patent false and 2) was never put in a position to succeed. No one would’ve succeeded in what he was asked to do.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not only was he asked to make the midfield tick on his own, other teams knew that too and would overload him. It wasn't remotely uncommon for him to get the ball and have 2 or 3 players already closing him down and the other midfielders just meandering around.

He was put in a role that only an absolute workhorse could do passably and that's never been his game.

I don’t think more than a couple of midfielders would’ve been successful in doing what he was asked to do. It’s near impossible to be good defensively, in transition, and still be able to score.

 

[Jussi]

But the issue is that you said he’s never been good here. Which 1) is patent false and 2) was never put in a position to succeed. No one would’ve succeeded in what he was asked to do.

No I didn't. I said Bruno's done certain vital things much better than Pogba has.

 

[hatterson]

Bruno Fernandes has shown in about a month more than Paul Pogba in his entire United career.

Bruno gets the ball moving forward much quicker than Pogba.

Pogba has never moved the ball forward as quickly as Bruno does.

Those are objectively false.

 

[Jussi]

Those are objectively false.

Nope. Hyperbolic for atteniongrabbing purposes but not inherently false.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Nope. Hyperbolic for atteniongrabbing purposes but not inherently false.

Yes they are. Bruno is and has been great. But he isn’t better than Pogba at his best.

 

[les Habs]

Once again Mourinho taking more points over the weekend than Guardiola.

Wrong. He took a point more, not more points. Regardless of that, where were you the last two match days? How about the FA Cup, where Spurs were bounced by relegation fodder that played less of a full strength XI than Spurs did? How about the CL where Spurs have a foot out the door? And Mourinho is a cup manager no less. I'll give you some advice. Think before you post and don't bother with the Johnny come lately bullshit.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Yeah, the midfield trio was really impressive, although Everton's midfield pair wasn't too difficult of a challenge. It's matches like this and some others where Barkley looks like a quality player. Mount showed his big potential again after struggling for awhile. This season has been big for his development. Gilmour is future locked-in starter and potential captain material.

Everton's midfield was truly abysmal (esp. Sigurdsson), but I remain nevertheless impressed. The point was made on this week's Totally Football Show that this Chelsea line-up was (due to suspension and injuries) arguably without its first-choice front six (Pulisic - Abraham - CHO, Kante - Kov - Jorg). I'd contest that Mount is part of a first choice XI, but I think the point still stands. This was arguably entirely a second-choice midfield, and they ran the show entirely.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Everton's midfield was truly abysmal (esp. Sigurdsson), but I remain nevertheless impressed. The point was made on this week's Totally Football Show that this Chelsea line-up was (due to suspension and injuries) arguably without its first-choice front six (Pulisic - Abraham - CHO, Kante - Kov - Jorg). I'd contest that Mount is part of a first choice XI, but I think the point still stands. This was arguably entirely a second-choice midfield, and they ran the show entirely.

Definitely agree. At best we had 2 first-choice players with Willian and Mount, and at worst, they are all backups. When you can perform like that against any squad, it's an impressive thing, especially when all those 6 that played are either youngsters that aren't established or players that are viewed as old/aging or disappointments. It's a big confidence boost that we needed.

 

[Havre]

Wrong. He took a point more, not more points. Regardless of that, where were you the last two match days? How about the FA Cup, where Spurs were bounced by relegation fodder that played less of a full strength XI than Spurs did? How about the CL where Spurs have a foot out the door? And Mourinho is a cup manager no less. I'll give you some advice. Think before you post and don't bother with the Johnny come lately bullshit.

For taking me seriously.

Funny to see who liked your post. All worth it.

 

[Burner Account]

Only need this many more wins:

That City match and the preceding Villa match were the moments. I can't believe that (however unlikely) it can happen this week. Doesn't feel real yet.

 

[robertmac43]

Leicester coming up big the relegation battle right now.

 

[les Habs]

For taking me seriously.

Funny to see who liked your post. All worth it.

Considering your posting history on Mourinho what did you expect?

 

[Havre]

Considering your posting history on Mourinho what did you expect?

Right. So if you know my posting history that well you believe I would rank managers based on results during a couple of weekends?

I guess I hurt your feelings somehow by not including a long rant about how Guardiola is so good we should consider naming whatever comes after homo sapiens homo pep. Hence, you reacted emotionally rather than rationally to my post. Forgivable.

My posting history when it comes to Mourinho also includes me wanting another type of manager at Spurs - even if it is clearly true I have never "hated" Mourinho in the same way as many others on here - and that long long before he became a manager of Spurs. I mean if you want to be that scientific about it.