PK Subban Signed - Round 3! Fight!

[Agnostic]

I can't see why the contracts that Perry, Getzlaf, Kane, Toews and a few more signed were a bad thing. When both Perry and Getzlaf signed their 5-years contract immediately after their entry-level contract, and then signed their 8th-year contract.....If it was good for them.....why couldn't it be good for PK? Unless you believe that it was really bad for the Ducks....

So what is the point here? Are you against signing anything more than a 2-year bridge contract for EVERY player in the league? Do you agree with it based on not knowoing what kind of player PK would be?

Cause frankly, you're talking about the leverage PK would have in 3 years....but then, didn't he has ALL the leverage when he signed? Mostly if the Rumor is true that Molson went to Bergevin and TOLD him to sign him......When the owner tells his GM to reach an agreement...how great a leverage is that?

I like to deal in facts, not unsubstantiated rumours from Mckenzie and Todd. I have always said these contracts are pay me now or pay me later, early long term deals pay for potential , later payouts pay for demonstrated results. It's one long payment schedule, but deferral of salary and long term control of the player are good things. That's why the players, not management, are barking up the tree to put more money in the hands of players earlier.

 

[Lshap]

Well, it's easy. When will a star dman be due for a new contract? That will be when Subban will be surpassed in terms of cap hit.

And don't be surprised with all the new contracts coming up. Since they can't do 15 years deals anymore, cap hits for star players will just go up.

That's the new landscape and yes, Bergevin was a little dumb for not seeing it coming. Could have extended Subban last summer for a little cheaper, for example.

Good point about the reduced term contracts making it more likely to have higher cap hits. Teams will have to squeeze more money into less seasons.

But why only compare Subban to other dmen? New contracts will be based on similar overall value, not just the position they play. Let's see what Stamkos and Kopitar get in 2016 and see how that changes the landscape for everyone.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I guess you missed the 72M he just signed to now unless you want to imply that his contract isn't ''breaking the bank''. You know what inflation is right? 9M now is going to be pretty similar to 11.5M in 3 years and if you're okay with 9M now, it makes no sense for you to have an issue with 11.5M in 3 years, especially if it meant saving 4M off the cap over the next 3 years.

werent you talking about missing stuff earlier on ?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Had Bergevin followed the bridge with an 8-year deal this past January, the jackpot would've been smaller. Before the Olympics, before Subban's playoff explosion, he would've cost less than $9M, although it's impossible to know how much less.

As you already know, I think the bridge was potentially positive, but Bergevin didn't follow up in the best way to optimize the advantage. I'm happy with the outcome, as you are, but it could've been better.

Ask yourself this question: If Subban were still under contract for the next three or four years at something like 5.25 would you be happy about it? I know I would. Everyone would be happy with that. We'd be hearing how great he is at managing the cap and getting Max and Pk for cheap etc...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Ask yourself this question: If Subban were still under contract for the next three or four years at something like 5.25 would you be happy about it? I know I would. Everyone would be happy with that. We'd be hearing how great he is at managing the cap and getting Max and Pk for cheap etc...

it's not 3 more now, it's 3 or 4...

and it's not for 5, it's for 5.25...


what's the next rumor based speculation, 6 years ? 6.5 per ?




seriously...

 

[Lshap]

Ask yourself this question: If Subban were still under contract for the next three or four years at something like 5.25 would you be happy about it? I know I would. Everyone would be happy with that. We'd be hearing how great he is at managing the cap and getting Max and Pk for cheap etc...

Sure I'd be happy with a cheaper cap hit right now. There's always an argument for "Right now". We just finished two seasons of "Right now" with Subban's cheaper bridge, which gave us some "Right now" space to sign some great players last season and reach the ECF. But "Right nows" end, and we have to pay for it 'right now'.

But in three years, your "Right now" will end. That hypothetical 5-year contract would've expired and then a new "Right now" will appear -- one with Subban signed for five more years. I'll guess most of us will be happy in that future 'right now' in 2017 when we don't have to re-sign Subban as a 28-year-old UFA. A year after that, Price's contract comes up for renegotiation, a year later, Pacioretty's. Those two renegotiations will be tough enough -- imagine having just done Subban's too? Oy.

Yes, it's a few years away and you and I are more concerned about the Habs contending in the next two/three years. But I can't blame Bergevin for taking a longer view. If he juggles the 'right now' contracts with the 'later-ons' and 'we'll sees', he may build the Habs into a long-term contender.

 

[Lshap]

it's not 3 more now, it's 3 or 4...

and it's not for 5, it's for 5.25...


what's the next rumor based speculation, 6 years ? 6.5 per ?




seriously...

Well, let's be fair -- 90% of this discussion is pure speculation. Fr'instance, I speculate that Kriss will respond to your last post. No proof, but the rumour mill is buzzing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure I'd be happy with a cheaper cap hit right now. There's always an argument for "Right now". We just finished two seasons of "Right now" with Subban's cheaper bridge, which gave us a "Right now" window that helped us pick up some great players last season and reach the ECF. But "Right nows" end, and we have to pay for it 'right now'.

But in three years, your "Right now" will end. That hypothetical 5-year contract would've expired and then a new "Right now" will appear -- one with Subban signed for five more years. I'll guess most of us will be happy in that future 'right now' in 2017 about not having to sign an even richer contract with Subban as a 28-year-old UFA. A year after that, Price's contract comes up for renegotiation, a year later, Pacioretty's.

Yes, it's a few years away and you and I are more concerned about the Habs contending in the next two/three years. But I can't blame Bergevin for taking a longer view. If he juggles the 'right now' contracts with the 'later-ons' and 'we'll sees', he may build the Habs into a long-term contender.

Of course you have to pay sooner or later. I'd just rather pay later, esp when the window to win is now. An extra four mil or so per year over the next three or four seasons would've been great.

And again, if he'd been signed to that amount that's what we'd be hearing from everyone. Maybe he was worried about getting stuck with Tyler Myers... I don't know. But to me it was a no-brainer and I also KNOW for sure that if we'd gone that route everyone here would've been thrilled with it and we'd be reading about how great MB has been with the cap. And you can add my name to the list of folks who'd have said this as well.

Overall, I still think MB has done a pretty good job. He's getting more credit than I think he deserves because this core was here before he was, but he's demonstrated the ability to land some big fish in a competitive market and despite the terrible off-season he had last summer, his moves since have been good to great. The Subban negotiations were a gong show though. The lowball, the bridge, arbitration... all unnecessary. I'm glad he eventually got signed and I'm glad he's a Hab for the next eight years but anyone who thinks this was 'imagined drama' is being disingenuous at the very least. There was every reason to be concerned when the arbitration happened (not to mention him sitting out two years ago) and I still think that MB was mandated to sign the deal.

At the end of the day he's here and that's what really matters now. I'm not happy about needlessly paying more than we have to now but it is what it is. And Subban actually is worth the cash so it lessens the sting.

 

[Lshap]

Of course you have to pay sooner or later. I'd just rather pay later, esp when the window to win is now. An extra four mil or so per year over the next three or four seasons would've been great.

And again, if he'd been signed to that amount that's what we'd be hearing from everyone. Maybe he was worried about getting stuck with Tyler Myers... I don't know. But to me it was a no-brainer and I also KNOW for sure that if we'd gone that route everyone here would've been thrilled with it and we'd be reading about how great MB has been with the cap. And you can add my name to the list of folks who'd have said this as well.

Overall, I still think MB has done a pretty good job. He's getting more credit than I think he deserves because this core was here before he was, but he's demonstrated the ability to land some big fish in a competitive market and despite the terrible off-season he had last summer, his moves since have been good to great. The Subban negotiations were a gong show though. The lowball, the bridge, arbitration... all unnecessary. I'm glad he eventually got signed and I'm glad he's a Hab for the next eight years but anyone who thinks this was 'imagined drama' is being disingenuous at the very least. There was every reason to be concerned when the arbitration happened (not to mention him sitting out two years ago) and I still think that MB was mandated to sign the deal.

At the end of the day he's here and that's what really matters now. I'm not happy about needlessly paying more than we have to now but it is what it is. And Subban actually is worth the cash so it lessens the sting.

We're not that far off. My ideal scenario would've been signing PK early last season, getting it done before his appointment to the Olympics and amazing playoff performance. His stock soared from January on and it cost us extra (no way to know how much extra). Did Bergevin not move fast enough? Was Meehan unreachable? Again, no way to know, but had Subban been signed this past January to a $7.5 to $8M contract for eight years, the bridge deal would've looked much better.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well, let's be fair -- 90% of this discussion is pure speculation. Fr'instance, I speculate that Kriss will respond to your last post. No proof, but the rumour mill is buzzing.

yup, it is, and the anti bridge people built their case on a rumored 5X5 deal...

thing is, it's being extended to 6 years now by the guy you quoted... and 5 is becoming 5.25...

next thing, there will be posters saying we could have inked him for 8 years right off ELC you know, and others will build their case on these new "facts".

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

We're not that far off. My ideal scenario would've been signing PK early last season, getting it done before his appointment to the Olympics and amazing playoff performance. His stock soared from January on and it cost us extra (no way to know how much extra). Did Bergevin not move fast enough? Was Meehan unreachable? Again, no way to know, but had Subban been signed this past January to a $7.5 to $8M contract for eight years, the bridge deal would've looked much better.

Once he won the Norris we pretty much had to back up the money truck man. I'd much rather we had just signed him cheap and long back when we had the chance. Yeah, you'll have to pay eventually but you enjoy the discounted rate for as long as you can.

 

[habitue*]

Once he won the Norris we pretty much had to back up the money truck man. I'd much rather we had just signed him cheap and long back when we had the chance. Yeah, you'll have to pay eventually but you enjoy the discounted rate for as long as you can.

Who knew P.K would win the Norris that year ? Not Bergevin, nor Subban and his agent. Look at the **** load of money Buffalo gave to Myers, and the results....

You should feel happy for Subban to have signed that big contract instead of trying to prove a point that does not make sense anymore at this point. You are not the one who has to pay his salary.

 

[Frozenice]

Once he won the Norris we pretty much had to back up the money truck man. I'd much rather we had just signed him cheap and long back when we had the chance. Yeah, you'll have to pay eventually but you enjoy the discounted rate for as long as you can.

Why? If the owner likes him does it really matter what he has on his resume or not? We can debate all we want whether he's worth this amount or that amount but it's mostly trying to make sense of it all. Heck, we know that even the GM and the owner value him differently.

 

[Team_Spirit]

don't miss the gracious exit

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/subban-happy-canadien-living-in-toronto/

 

[Brainiac]

A little bumpity bump here but I've just seen the clip with Philippe Cantin on RDS.

He's spent an hour and a half with Bergevin recently and Bergevin confirmed that there was a significant gap between Subban's demands and Habs' offer before they went to arbitration. We sort of knew that, obviously.

But then Cantin sort of matter-of-factly admitted that Molson intervening was the deciding factor because the final deal was much closer to Subban's demands than to Bergevin's offer.

So yeah... flame on!

And don't forget that I love you all. Maybe not equally, but I love you!