PK Subban Signed - Round 3! Fight!

[Kriss E]

3 years more, that's what I meant. I don't like it but I don't hate it. Obviously, Geoff is okay with it, if he's okay with it so am I. In three more years 9M could've become 10 or 11. But we're just speculating, which is how this debate started in the first place.

He may not have left, but the cost of keeping him may have increased.

Surely, it could have. Another possibility would be his salary would have been pretty similar to what he just got. Either way, we would have had PK at a 5M cap hit for 3 more years which would be amazing.

MaxPac is signed till 30. The year he's set to become an UFA, PK is going to be making 10M in salary, yet I never hear about how Max is going to be in his prime years when he becomes an UFA. On the contrary, everybody is really happy with the deal he signed to.
So why should it be any different for PK? And you know it wouldn't be. All the pro-bridge folks would be praising Bergy more and rightly so.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It's always been.

yeah sure

except, when I asked you if you hated PK contract (that much), your awnser was pretty clear -> NO

Nope.
Just agreeing with another poster who wrote you guys would be singing praises for 5x5 deal had it happened.

and later on when I asked you if you liked it, it was again a big NO, and it's pretty clear.

I hate it.

but I guess that it's the person you're responding to who doesnt get it, again... right ?

 

[Kriss E]

yeah sure

except, when I asked you if you hated PK contract (that much), your awnser was pretty clear -> NO



and later on when I asked you if you liked it, it was again a big NO, and it's pretty clear.




but I guess that it's the person you're responding to who doesnt get it, again... right ?

I guess you don't know sarcasm unless there's a involved.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I guess you don't know sarcasm unless there's a involved.

nice try.

guess I was right.

 

[Habnot]

I have answered this repeatedly, so it's actually pretty funny that you think this was avoided.
9M is not a ''digestible'' contract, it's one of the highest cap hits in the NHL. Sure he's worth it, but it's still a huge cap hit.

There's 0 reason to believe PK would have left as an UFA.

It's high today, but will be a bargain after year 2 don't you think?

Also, I agree that chances are that PK would not of left, but there is always some risk as a player approaches UFA status.

 

[habitue*]

It's high today, but will be a bargain after year 2 don't you think?

Also, I agree that chances are that PK would not of left, but there is always some risk as a player approaches UFA status.

Never forget that Habs< players as well as all the other players in Canada's NHL teams are paid in American $ even if the revenues are in CDN $.

PK will make 10 million in CDN $. Just hope that the currency won't loose too much to the American $ in the future.

 

[Kriss E]

nice try.

guess I was right.

Ya, the poster who's repeatedly saying he wanted PK signed long term right away and then extend him so we could have him for even longer now ''hates'' the fact PK is signed for 8years. Either that or that poster was simply being sarcastic. What's even funnier is that you provided a bunch of post where I say I'm okay/happy with this deal, but yet you decide to turn the other way now.
Oh right, nice try.. So lame..

 

[Kriss E]

It's high today, but will be a bargain after year 2 don't you think?

Also, I agree that chances are that PK would not of left, but there is always some risk as a player approaches UFA status.

No I don't think 9M will be a bargain in 2 years time. I think it's probably going to remain one of the, if not the, highest cap hits for a Dman out there for quite some time.

I don't mind it, he's worth it, but I don't think we'll ever be saying ''man this 9M cap hit is pretty cheap''. Unless the NHL explodes in revenues and goes well over 100M in cap, but I'm not sure this will happen.

 

[Brainiac]

No I don't think 9M will be a bargain in 2 years time. I think it's probably going to remain one of the, if not the, highest cap hits for a Dman out there for quite some time.

I don't mind it, he's worth it, but I don't think we'll ever be saying ''man this 9M cap hit is pretty cheap''. Unless the NHL explodes in revenues and goes well over 100M in cap, but I'm not sure this will happen.

Well, it's easy. When will a star dman be due for a new contract? That will be when Subban will be surpassed in terms of cap hit.

And don't be surprised with all the new contracts coming up. Since they can't do 15 years deals anymore, cap hits for star players will just go up.

That's the new landscape and yes, Bergevin was a little dumb for not seeing it coming. Could have extended Subban last summer for a little cheaper, for example.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Ya, the poster who's repeatedly saying he wanted PK signed long term right away and then extend him so we could have him for even longer now ''hates'' the fact PK is signed for 8years. Either that or that poster was simply being sarcastic. What's even funnier is that you provided a bunch of post where I say I'm okay/happy with this deal, but yet you decide to turn the other way now.
Oh right, nice try.. So lame..

again, never in the wrong, it's always the others who dont get it (as predicted in previous post)...


and yeah, you sure were sarcastic, I mean, it's not like you spend your time saying the whole thing was stupid or something... you know.


so, please, enlighten me, tell me wich part I didnt get this time ?

 

[Kriss E]

Well, it's easy. When will a star dman be due for a new contract? That will be when Subban will be surpassed in terms of cap hit.

And don't be surprised with all the new contracts coming up. Since they can't do 15 years deals anymore, cap hits for star players will just go up.

That's the new landscape and yes, Bergevin was a little dumb for not seeing it coming. Could have extended Subban last summer for a little cheaper, for example.

I don't see any Dman getting a higher cap hit than PK until Doughty and Karlsson need to negotiate new deals and that won't happen until 2019. The cap is going up, but I don't think guys like Seabrook or Yandle are going to get 9M deals.

 

[Kriss E]

again, never in the wrong, it's always the others who dont get it (as predicted in previous post)...

This is about you pretending to know what a poster meant better than the actual poster. It's incredibly pretentious and mind numbingly stupid.

I have no issue with PK's deal. I've said it many times. You failed to notice sarcasm. Stop spinning this around like a 10yo special ED kid.

and yeah, you sure were sarcastic, I mean, it's not like you spend your time saying the whole thing was stupid or something... you know.

I said the bridge deal was stupid. The contract I have no issues with. You missed the sarcasm, get over it instead of digging your hole deeper.

so, please, enlighten me, tell me wich part I didnt get this time ?

You clearly missed the sarcasm. Instead of thinking you somehow know me better than I know myself, accept it and move the freak on.

Get over it.

 

[Brainiac]

I don't see any Dman getting a higher cap hit than PK until Doughty and Karlsson need to negotiate new deals and that won't happen until 2019. The cap is going up, but I don't think guys like Seabrook or Yandle are going to get 9M deals.

Even then, it could be faster than we think. Say one of the younger guys has a breakout year or two. Not that likely, but it could happen.

However, I do agree with you that most youngish good dmen are signed for long: Doughty, Karlsson, Letang, McDonagh etc. And they've all been signed to sweet deals under the previous CBA.

As I said, even after the bridge deal, Bergevin should have seen it coming.

 

[Whitesnake]

Nobody expects you to man up on this but after 10 threads, and 3 post deal threads, a poll, you might tone down the insults.

Bergevin is doing an excellent job he doesn't need to be "propped up" by anyone at the moment.

Problem is that most pro-bridge fans reactions right now are only based on the new contract PK just signed. Reason why they feel that it was a good move after all. Cause let say PK doesn't have a contract now and is just Under a 1-year contract? Would that bridge be seen as great?

Which in the end brings the question....what does this deal has anything to do with the bridge that was signed? Today he'd be working on a 3rd year deal of a 5-year contract....who would actually care what Subban would be asking for in 3 years? Next year, Seabrook might be asking for 8M$ or something, and we'd laugh to have PK at 5 for the next 2 years.....And then even if you go further and think that real soon, he will be a bargain, which could happen....what in the world would he be asking in 3 years....and even if the idea is 12$ per....chances are the cap would have gone up by more than that. Of course, you have other contracts to take care of but then...who cares....our upcoming youngsters will all be on bridge contracts....

The bridge contract cannot be a good move because if it's a move based on "Waiting to know what kind of player we have"....it's not a whole lot of being proactive and it's not that great of a vision while we all knew he'd turn great. And if it's a question of trying to save money while you can, well in the end, and in this world, you have to know that in the bigger scheme of things, you will end up paying for what you didn't pay before. People might find that 9M$ per is a lot....well not when you are paying the UFA years.....and not when you add the money he lost in that bridge deal he hated.

What we probably can't talk about is how frustrated a kid is or not based on a situation like that. I guess by being on the Inside, Bergevin knew that Subban would not be angry enough to just leave. Most of us thought it was going to be a possibility and it probably never was.....Somehow though, I will always cherish the power of confidence and stability and will always feel that you are helping your team when you recognize and give confidence to the Young talent of your team.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Which in the end brings the question....what does this deal has anything to do with the bridge that was signed? Today he'd be working on a 3rd year deal of a 5-year contract....

There was probably the option to sign him to longer than a 5 year deal back then actually. He kept talking about how he wanted to be a Hab for life and was more interesested in term... So he there's a possibility he could've beeen going into year three of a six or seven year deal had we gone that way. Of course we'll never know.

 

[Kriss E]

Even then, it could be faster than we think. Say one of the younger guys has a breakout year or two. Not that likely, but it could happen.

However, I do agree with you that most youngish good dmen are signed for long: Doughty, Karlsson, Letang, McDonagh etc. And they've all been signed to sweet deals under the previous CBA.

As I said, even after the bridge deal, Bergevin should have seen it coming.

Well that's just it. Most of the solid kids with elite potential are either signed to extensions skipping the bridge deal, or they're still on their ELC. There is no way any Dman kid currently in the NHL is going to reach 9M coming out of their ELC.
Will they sign a 2 year deal and then have terrific years like PK winning a Norris, leading the NHL, winning gold? I'd say that's unlikely.
Whichever teams have very interesting young Dmen like Minnesota with Brodin or Nashville with Jones, are going to use PK's contract as a reason why they're better off trying to ink their kids to a longer deal. Why give a bridge deals to kids you believe will become solid and have to open the vault up like us with PK?
I'm pretty sure Sather was absolutely ecstatic with his deal with McDonagh after watching PK get 9M.

All the pro bridge folks simply refuse to admit the obvious or genuinely don't understand.
The bridge deal was the fastest way for PK to hit the jackpot. That's all it did.

 

[ECWHSWI]

This is about you pretending to know what a poster meant better than the actual poster. It's incredibly pretentious and mind numbingly stupid.

I have no issue with PK's deal. I've said it many times. You failed to notice sarcasm. Stop spinning this around like a 10yo special ED kid.

I said the bridge deal was stupid. The contract I have no issues with. You missed the sarcasm, get over it instead of digging your hole deeper.

You clearly missed the sarcasm. Instead of thinking you somehow know me better than I know myself, accept it and move the freak on.

Get over it.

sounds like another poster here


obviously, you are right, it's the other side not getting it... predictable

 

[Agnostic]

Problem is that most pro-bridge fans reactions right now are only based on the new contract PK just signed. Reason why they feel that it was a good move after all. Cause let say PK doesn't have a contract now and is just Under a 1-year contract? Would that bridge be seen as great?

Which in the end brings the question....what does this deal has anything to do with the bridge that was signed? Today he'd be working on a 3rd year deal of a 5-year contract....who would actually care what Subban would be asking for in 3 years? Next year, Seabrook might be asking for 8M$ or something, and we'd laugh to have PK at 5 for the next 2 years.....And then even if you go further and think that real soon, he will be a bargain, which could happen....what in the world would he be asking in 3 years....and even if the idea is 12$ per....chances are the cap would have gone up by more than that. Of course, you have other contracts to take care of but then...who cares....our upcoming youngsters will all be on bridge contracts....

The bridge contract cannot be a good move because if it's a move based on "Waiting to know what kind of player we have"....it's not a whole lot of being proactive and it's not that great of a vision while we all knew he'd turn great. And if it's a question of trying to save money while you can, well in the end, and in this world, you have to know that in the bigger scheme of things, you will end up paying for what you didn't pay before. People might find that 9M$ per is a lot....well not when you are paying the UFA years.....and not when you add the money he lost in that bridge deal he hated.

What we probably can't talk about is how frustrated a kid is or not based on a situation like that. I guess by being on the Inside, Bergevin knew that Subban would not be angry enough to just leave. Most of us thought it was going to be a possibility and it probably never was.....Somehow though, I will always cherish the power of confidence and stability and will always feel that you are helping your team when you recognize and give confidence to the Young talent of your team.

The drama that people were fretting about was never real. The comparison of these deals boils down to whether you want to be dealing with Subban at age 25 with 2 years of control remaining on his contract , or whether you want to negotiate with him as a UFA at the prime age of 28. I'll take the $9M deal now over what I believe would have been negotiated when Subban has overwhelming leverage in 3 years.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The drama that people were fretting about was never real. The comparison of these deals boils down to whether you want to be dealing with Subban at age 25 with 2 years of control remaining on his contract , or whether you want to negotiate with him as a UFA at the prime age of 28. I'll take the $9M deal now over what I believe would have been negotiated when Subban has overwhelming leverage in 3 years.

except you forgot that PK is such a kind boy, breaking the bank ? no way. asking for 10.5, 11 or 11.5 ? no way. He's a nice boy, pretty sure he would have asked for an AAV of 9 as a UFA anyway

 

[Sorinth]

The drama that people were fretting about was never real. The comparison of these deals boils down to whether you want to be dealing with Subban at age 25 with 2 years of control remaining on his contract , or whether you want to negotiate with him as a UFA at the prime age of 28. I'll take the $9M deal now over what I believe would have been negotiated when Subban has overwhelming leverage in 3 years.

First off at least some of the drama was real. Subban sat out, that doesn't happen if everyone is happy with how things are going down.

Second, just because Subban didn't let it faze him doesn't mean our next star player will let it go, so as a future strategy it's not something we would want to repeat.

Third, we would negotiate with Subban at 27 with one year before UFA. That's pretty much the same negotiating power as Subban at 25 with 2 years before UFA.

Fourth a deal that would kick in at 28 would cover some mid-late 30s so those years would have a much smaller cap hit then his prime years which would lower the caphit. His current deal covers all his prime years and so would naturally have the highest cap hit.

 

[Price is Wright]

First off at least some of the drama was real. Subban sat out, that doesn't happen if everyone is happy with how things are going down.

Drew Doughty sat out when he wanted his new contract with the Kings. That sure led to doom and gloom for LA.

Fourth a deal that would kick in at 28 would cover some mid-late 30s so those years would have a much smaller cap hit then his prime years which would lower the caphit. His current deal covers all his prime years and so would naturally have the highest cap hit.

Do you even see what kind of contracts players get at 28 years old on free agency? 28-31 is when players cash in at free agency. Richards got $50M in the first five years of a contract that still allowed him to drop from $7M to $1M at year seven. We can't do those contracts anymore. The David Clarkson's of the world get $5M per year on seven year deals. At 28, the cap is higher and players will have already been used to the new CBA. That doesn't spell a smaller cap hit. That spells a higher cap hit in every way other than your own twisted vision.

 

[Sorinth]

Drew Doughty sat out when he wanted his new contract with the Kings. That sure led to doom and gloom for LA.

And he got it. Do you think LA is now worried that Doughty will bolt to free agency as soon as his contract is over?

Do you even see what kind of contracts players get at 28 years old on free agency? 28-31 is when players cash in at free agency. Richards got $50M in the first five years of a contract that still allowed him to drop from $7M to $1M at year seven. We can't do those contracts anymore. The David Clarkson's of the world get $5M per year on seven year deals. At 28, the cap is higher and players will have already been used to the new CBA. That doesn't spell a smaller cap hit. That spells a higher cap hit in every way other than your own twisted vision.

Well there aren't many comparables because there haven't been many star players to sign deals under the new rules.

Off the top of me head the only stars I can think of are Malkin, Getzlaf, Perry, Toews, Kane. The average of those 4 is just under 9.5. So not exactly a big difference with PK's current salary.

 

[Kriss E]

except you forgot that PK is such a kind boy, breaking the bank ? no way. asking for 10.5, 11 or 11.5 ? no way. He's a nice boy, pretty sure he would have asked for an AAV of 9 as a UFA anyway

I guess you missed the 72M he just signed to now unless you want to imply that his contract isn't ''breaking the bank''. You know what inflation is right? 9M now is going to be pretty similar to 11.5M in 3 years and if you're okay with 9M now, it makes no sense for you to have an issue with 11.5M in 3 years, especially if it meant saving 4M off the cap over the next 3 years.

 

[Whitesnake]

The drama that people were fretting about was never real. The comparison of these deals boils down to whether you want to be dealing with Subban at age 25 with 2 years of control remaining on his contract , or whether you want to negotiate with him as a UFA at the prime age of 28. I'll take the $9M deal now over what I believe would have been negotiated when Subban has overwhelming leverage in 3 years.

I can't see why the contracts that Perry, Getzlaf, Kane, Toews and a few more signed were a bad thing. When both Perry and Getzlaf signed their 5-years contract immediately after their entry-level contract, and then signed their 8th-year contract.....If it was good for them.....why couldn't it be good for PK? Unless you believe that it was really bad for the Ducks....

So what is the point here? Are you against signing anything more than a 2-year bridge contract for EVERY player in the league? Do you agree with it based on not knowoing what kind of player PK would be?

Cause frankly, you're talking about the leverage PK would have in 3 years....but then, didn't he has ALL the leverage when he signed? Mostly if the Rumor is true that Molson went to Bergevin and TOLD him to sign him......When the owner tells his GM to reach an agreement...how great a leverage is that?

 

[Lshap]

All the pro bridge folks simply refuse to admit the obvious or genuinely don't understand.
The bridge deal was the fastest way for PK to hit the jackpot. That's all it did.

Had Bergevin followed the bridge with an 8-year deal this past January, the jackpot would've been smaller. Before the Olympics, before Subban's playoff explosion, he would've cost less than $9M, although it's impossible to know how much less.

As you already know, I think the bridge was potentially positive, but Bergevin didn't follow up in the best way to optimize the advantage. I'm happy with the outcome, as you are, but it could've been better.