Confirmed with Link: PK Subban - Norris Finalist

[MasterDecoy]

He disguises himself as SouthernHab, the ultimate anti- Andrew Berkshire

good one. but we love SH...

 

[417]

But none of these guys were consistently good this year. Well, maybe Doughty was... I didn't really get to see him nor did I pay him much attention this year. That suggests an off season for defensemen rather than parity.

I think that's harsh...I don't think that Subban, at any point this year, was bad. I mean, it's hard, see impossible, to play at a Norris-level for an entire season,
game 1 through game 82.

Maybe it took a little while for guys like Subban and Karlsson to catch their stride, but that just speaks of how great they are, even when they weren't at their best, they were better than the majority of NHL Dmen.

 

[The Nightman]

I think Subban should get it but he won't. With Price getting all these votes for Hart and Vezina I doubt these Journalist vote for another Canadien and there's no real clear cut winner like the Vezina. I'm guessing Karlsson wins, he had a fantastic 2nd half but before the coaching change he was extremely average.

 

[JayKing]

The worst thing about it is that I like Karlsson. Subban is our player, I like him and he is doing an awesome job for us, but for some reason I don't feel the need to trash other players to make him look better. Is there anything wrong with me?

The real worst part is that Subban and Karlsson have so much respect for each other.

 

[quidam1981]

With back spams, Karlsson was at the most at, what, 75%?

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/spo...rne=cyberpresse_B9_sports_101983_section_POS4

 

[Justin11]

Congrats to Subban, well deserved. Even if he does not win the Norris, I'm very happy to have one of the best defensemen in the league playing for our Habs.

 

[Lebowski]

As much as I love Subban I'd vote for Doughty. His defense is impeccable and his offense is constrained by the system he's asked to play. We all saw at the Olympics just how offensively gifted he is when given the chance to attack. Karlsson was so poor the first quarter of the season that I'm surprised he was even nominated.

Doughty's defense is far from impeccable. He's very much prone to turn overs, much like Subban.

Playing in a tight defensive system may stifle his offensive production, but it certainly helps his play on the defensive end.

Doughty shouldn't have been nominated this year, let alone winning the friggin' award.

 

[Brainiac]

As much as I love Subban I'd vote for Doughty. His defense is impeccable and his offense is constrained by the system he's asked to play. We all saw at the Olympics just how offensively gifted he is when given the chance to attack. Karlsson was so poor the first quarter of the season that I'm surprised he was even nominated.

G/GP:
LA 2.66
MTL 2.61

PP%:
LA 19%
MTL 16.5%

S/GP:
LA 30.9
MTL 28.5

LA was shooting and scoring more than us this year. And they had a better PP. So why the 'system' excuse for low numbers should apply to Doughty? It'd be more coherent to assume that Subban would have better numbers if his team could score a little more on the PP.

 

[Adriatic]

Karlsson will win this, he was down right dominating during some stretches this season. He even impressed me during the playoffs, he's able to control the flow of the whole game at times.

 

[jaffy27]

Karlsson will win this, he was down right dominating during some stretches this season. He even impressed me during the playoffs, he's able to control the flow of the whole game at times.

Playoffs have no bearing on the end results of this award...it's regular season only. Having said that, Karlsson impressed the heck out of me also, but I'm thinking Subban wins it for a second time. This nomination justifies his contract, money well spent I say!

 

[shawdowmaker]

If PK was -21 then I would argue he still deserves the Norris because I understand a bad team doesn't always make a player bad just like a good team doesn't always make a player good. Subban finished -4 last year, and the habs finished 1st in the East...does that mean Subban was bad last year because he's our #1 Dman and was negative +/- while our team finished 1st? nope


Better yet...DD finished +22, now answer me honestly, do you seriously still give +/- such heavy weight? It's a stupid stat, you're all arguing for it just because it favours PK over EK. Subban could have had a lower +/- and you guys would have argued he's still better than EK and instead said +/- is a dumb stat.

Give me PK over EK all day every day, but for reasons other than his +/-



What are you trying to argue? EK could have been ppg or something if he was +21 or that PK would have had significantly lower points if he was -21? or both?

Either way, as a completely objective opinion, I think EK is far better than his +7 suggests. I've watched him play under both coaches and I think he went like +20 under Cameron...but regardless, I take Subban over EK on the habs.

That being said, EK deserves the Norris this year.

I disagree with the argument about different coaches and about being better then +7. IMO that is a terrible argument. I can argue that if PK had a better PP coach he would have more then 60 pts but where does it end? My opinion is based on regular season stats and again imo PK had a better overall season then the two others. I would like you to tell Mr. Robinson that +/- is not an important stat.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Karlsson will win this, he was down right dominating during some stretches this season. He even impressed me during the playoffs, he's able to control the flow of the whole game at times.

He was great during the playoffs at times but so was PK. It was cool watching them go head to head.

I think that's harsh...I don't think that Subban, at any point this year, was bad. I mean, it's hard, see impossible, to play at a Norris-level for an entire season,
game 1 through game 82.

Maybe it took a little while for guys like Subban and Karlsson to catch their stride, but that just speaks of how great they are, even when they weren't at their best, they were better than the majority of NHL Dmen.

None of them were bad... just not consistent.

 

[McClane]

I think that's harsh...I don't think that Subban, at any point this year, was bad. I mean, it's hard, see impossible, to play at a Norris-level for an entire season,
game 1 through game 82.

Yeah, and it's impossible for anyone to assess players over an 82 game span. Even journalists cannot possibly watch every game and will end up basing their opinions on sample games, highlights and the opinions of others.

 

[Sorinth]

Remember when PK won the Norris and everybody was saying it shouldn't go to him because he didn't play on the the penalty kill? Well now the shoe is on the other foot, Karlsson only averaged 33s on the PK, whereas Subban was over 2min a game.

Remember when they said he didn't deserve it because he racked up his points on the PP and not at ES? Well Subban outproduce Karlsson at even strength.

So will those same critiques apply?

 

[groovejuice]

Remember when PK won the Norris and everybody was saying it shouldn't go to him because he didn't play on the the penalty kill? Well now the shoe is on the other foot, Karlsson only averaged 33s on the PK, whereas Subban was over 2min a game.

Remember when they said he didn't deserve it because he racked up his points on the PP and not at ES? Well Subban outproduce Karlsson at even strength.

So will those same critiques apply?

Naturally














Not

 

[Redux91]

as many have said

even if he doesnt win, just the recognition again for his play this year after A LOT of habs fans just love to **** on him any chance they get for some amazingly absurd reason

its nice to see the voters at least hold him in VERY high regard, as he should be

so ****ing happy to have him on our team, i love the guy

 

[Mathradio]

I think that, since Price is a lock for the Hart and the Vezina, Subban could be runner-up at best.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Remember when PK won the Norris and everybody was saying it shouldn't go to him because he didn't play on the the penalty kill? Well now the shoe is on the other foot, Karlsson only averaged 33s on the PK, whereas Subban was over 2min a game.

Remember when they said he didn't deserve it because he racked up his points on the PP and not at ES? Well Subban outproduce Karlsson at even strength.

So will those same critiques apply?

It was silly that we didn't use PK on the PK that season anyway... but that's another story.

 

[capebretoncanadien]

This. Seriously, Bruins and Leafs fans have been mock-worthy in recent years.

Sens fans, however, have certainly taken over top spot in the delusionally-self-important and furthest-from-reasonable categories.

A fan base well deserving of an early golf season...

I agree 100% a few of their fans rightfully made it to my ignore list.

The hubris they show for a team that hasn't won a thing.

Like many others here I like EK and when it comes to the inevitable and forever eternal PK vs. EK debate I only try to bring balanced criticisms of the player.

He really is a great talent Ottawa fans just cant have their cake, they have to just shove it down everyone's throat.



They (Ottawa fans) even turned the Vezina trophy thread of all things into an EK thread briefly lol.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Holy crap. 5 consecutive pages of demolishing Subban's character over at the Sens boards.

He is in their head so much, i think its unhealthy.

And we're the non classy fan base. Seems like we're giving props to karlsson but they feel threatened by subban being anywhere close to their chosen one.

 

[Wats]

And we're the non classy fan base. Seems like we're giving props to karlsson but they feel threatened by subban being anywhere close to their chosen one.

To be fair, it wasn't that long ago that Karlsson was generational talent and Subban was an overrated PP specialist with no respect. 2013 was literally the first time more general masses of people started thinking 'hey this Subban is a star'.

Sens fans scoffing at Subban not being close to Karlssons generational talent is at threat. Now he's been a Norris finalist 2/3 years. Much harder to hate on Subbans ability. I don't think it even matters to them that most people would agree that Karlsson is better. Its more to do with people can give a good argument to prefer Subban over their god.

 

[Genesis76]

PK will be a HoF and will have his Jersey retired. Guaranteed.

EK? Bahh

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

PK will be a HoF and will have his Jersey retired. Guaranteed.

EK? Bahh

Too soon to say for either one of them but they both certainly seem to be well on the path...

 

[PricePkPatch*]

PK will be a HoF and will have his Jersey retired. Guaranteed.

EK? Bahh

Will need at least a couple of Cups before its "guaranteed"

 

[Davebo*]

And we're the non classy fan base. Seems like we're giving props to karlsson but they feel threatened by subban being anywhere close to their chosen one.

Agreed. Every group of fans we come up against seems super aggressive at trolling. By comparison, Habs fans have seemed - to me, at least - tame by comparison. Hell - I've still got an avatar, and we're into the second round.

HFboards should have a Cup of their own, awarded to the most well behaved fanbase at the end of a season. Like that would help...