Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Yohe and Rossi lie about a self imposed ceiling

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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I wish the Penguins ran a 1-3-1 powerplay, with Guentzel in the slot and Hornqvist in front of the net.

Like what is their actual powerplay strategy right now? Feed Malkin for 1-timers and hope that works?

That's been my point. In order to run a 1-3-1, that involves the bumper position being used. For whatever reason, we just do NOT use that option. Everything is either around the outside looking for a nice tap in (that rarely happens), or setup Malkin for a one-timer.

How many goals can you recall where the guy in the bumper position scored? Hell, against Montreal the only time I even remember a SHOT, let alone a goal, from that spot was one time when Sid on the left halfwall touch-passed the puck to Zucker in the slot, who one-timed it off a defenseman's stick out of the rink. That was the only time I recall the Pens even trying it that entire series.
 
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Randy Butternubs

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That is what I read into as well and it seems like there's just discussion on who to keep. Like I said, no performance related necessarily. Girgensons is done at this point. We have better centers in Bleuger and possibly Lafferty. Mittelstadt took a step back as well and some seem to have soured on him. They need a center which is why McCann for Montour makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Maybe McCann+ for Montour+Mittelstadt? They have an interesting roster with good pieces but everyone knows they are not happy. With the number of RFAs and UFAs they have, there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of wiggle room. I really thought someone like Hornqvist could go well there. They miss exactly what he brings. Maybe that's the deal, McCann+Horny for Montour+Mittel? Gives us cap space, gives them a center and a wing replacement. Kahun-McCann-Horny is already a known quantity...perhaps?

Then there's Ristolainen, MoJo, goaltending questions...I mean, there's a lot to like about us being trading partners. I would even be willing to explore something like Bjgustad+Hornqvist for Okposo+

I'm curious about Girgensons because:
  1. I believe his wife is from Pittsburgh and I am pretty sure they live here in the off season.
  2. She's pregnant and is due January.
  3. I'm assuming this is the case with all children, but having family nearby likely helps a ton with a newborn.
  4. I think Girgensons is friends with Blueger, which makes sense given the Latvia and Pittsburgh connections.
  5. I think a bunch of players will be taking one or two year deals in hopes of cashing out in the near future once the cap increases again. Girgensons being one of these players who may take a cheaper and shorter deal to improve his future contract.
  6. ZAR is out for 6 months and I think Girgensons would be an able and cheap replacement.

Here are your 2020-2021 Pittsburgh Penguins lol

FORWARDS:
Zucker(5.5)-Crosby(8.7)-McCann(2.75?)
Guentzel(6)-Malkin(9.5)-Rust(3.5)
Tanev(3.5)-Bjugstad(4.1)-Hornqvist(5.3)
Reese(1)-Blueger(.750)-Lafferty(.925?)

DEFENSE:
Dumoulin(4.1)-Letang(7.25)
Petterson(4.03)-Marino(.925)
Johnson(3.25)-Ruhwedel(.700)

GOALIE:
Jarry(4?)
DeSmith(1.25)

EXTRAS:
Angello(.900?)
Trotman(.900?)

Total= $69.355
Cap= $81.5
Savings= $12.145
After cap hits= $2.67

Your total isn't correct. It's closer to $79M. And what's "after cap hits"?
 
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I'm curious about Girgensons because:
  1. I believe his wife is from Pittsburgh and I am pretty sure they live here in the off season.
  2. She's pregnant and is due January.
  3. I'm assuming this is the case with all children, but having family nearby likely helps a ton with a newborn.
  4. I think Girgensons is friends with Blueger, which makes sense given the Latvia and Pittsburgh connections.
  5. I think a bunch of players will be taking one or two year deals in hopes of cashing out in the near future once the cap increases again. Girgensons being one of these players who may take a cheaper and shorter deal to improve his future contract.
  6. ZAR is out for 6 months and I think Girgensons would be an able and cheap replacement.
Not completely unjustifiable reason to be curious. If ZAR is out, I want that spot open for a Poulin, Legare, Lafferty, etc.

I see him in more of the Sheahan mold meaning we are into the season and injuries have piled up and we need someone cheap as a stop gap.
 

Andy P

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Dec 21, 2018
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Your total isn't correct. It's closer to $79M. And what's "after cap hits"?[/QUOTE]
SMH... the cap after hit is when you add the total including the ones I guessed on, still going to be saving around 2.5 million like Rutherford wants to do
 

Big McLargehuge

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Not completely unjustifiable reason to be curious. If ZAR is out, I want that spot open for a Poulin, Legare, Lafferty, etc.

I see him in more of the Sheahan mold meaning we are into the season and injuries have piled up and we need someone cheap as a stop gap.

Depends on how you view ZAR's role, I guess. If we view him as a fourth liner then Lafferty would make sense, but I don't want Poulin or Legare on the fourth line. Third line is different, but then you're more talking about replacing Marleau than ZAR.

Girgensons would be cheap and add depth while being able to take ZAR's and/or Rodrigues's PK minutes. I've overrated him every step of his career because of his glorious name and I'm ready to do it again.
 

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Depends on how you view ZAR's role, I guess. If we view him as a fourth liner then Lafferty would make sense, but I don't want Poulin or Legare on the fourth line. Third line is different, but then you're more talking about replacing Marleau than ZAR.

Girgensons would be cheap and add depth while being able to take ZAR's and/or Rodrigues's PK minutes. I've overrated him every step of his career because of his glorious name and I'm ready to do it again.

I think it also depend on how we elect to structure the 4th line. The idea of the 4th line being a checking line is sort of antiquated. If we set the line up to be an energy or offensive / skill 4th line, I'm okay with Poulin getting time on it. Poulin-Bleuger-Tanev, I would be okay with. Poulin-Lafferty-Tanev, same. As long as the direction isn't "Go out there an hit sum1!", I'm good.
 
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Peat

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Depends on how you view ZAR's role, I guess. If we view him as a fourth liner then Lafferty would make sense, but I don't want Poulin or Legare on the fourth line. Third line is different, but then you're more talking about replacing Marleau than ZAR.

Girgensons would be cheap and add depth while being able to take ZAR's and/or Rodrigues's PK minutes. I've overrated him every step of his career because of his glorious name and I'm ready to do it again.

There's a live question there about how we use the fourth line. Right now, it's trying to play low event hockey. It does it well enough, but it'd be nice to see some scoring threat there. I'm not sure Poulin is the way to go about it, but a reliable and overqualified youngster is generally the best way to supercharge a 4th line - that or an overqualified old-timer.
 
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There's a live question there about how we use the fourth line. Right now, it's trying to play low event hockey. It does it well enough, but it'd be nice to see some scoring threat there. I'm not sure Poulin is the way to go about it, but a reliable and overqualified youngster is generally the best way to supercharge a 4th line - that or an overqualified old-timer.

I would tend to agree but Sully and Co need to make sure to invest into ONE single concept. To BMH's point, if the 4th line if going to be a gathering of misfits/leftovers the way Marleau-McCann-Horny was, that's not a great use of Poulin. I would rather him go back to Juniors. But if you commit to an offensive minded 4th line and stock is as such (meaning in all honesty, ZAR is gone), then there may be a spot. This also involves roster callups when injuries happen.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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I don't know at this point re: the power play. Which is harder to accomplish? Adding a PPQB, a legit one, to help out with the first unit, sending Letang where he belongs (the second unit), OR trying to fix this power play by changing the formation and the style to fit the things Letang actually does well.

Neither seems easy, so we're basically effed.
 

K Fleur

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I think it’s definitely time to get away from the Malkin one timer being the main weapon(or go to option) on the powerplay.

Guentzel also definitely needs a different role out there too. He’s a complete waste in his current powerplay role.
 
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EVGENIMERLIN

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I think it’s definitely time to get away from the Malkin one timer being the main weapon(or go to option) on the powerplay.
I know he just had surgery, but the gist I got from Rossi's article is at some point he has to have more serious surgery soon and even he believes it is messing up his shot. I definitely think they need a different approach
 

Peat

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I know he just had surgery, but the gist I got from Rossi's article is at some point he has to have more serious surgery soon and even he believes it is messing up his shot. I definitely think they need a different approach

Even if this wasn't the case - and not a lot of reason to believe that - it's just too obvious. Let the guy move. Most of Malkin's goals during our best PP stretch came from the left circle of the slot.
 
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Peat

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I would tend to agree but Sully and Co need to make sure to invest into ONE single concept. To BMH's point, if the 4th line if going to be a gathering of misfits/leftovers the way Marleau-McCann-Horny was, that's not a great use of Poulin. I would rather him go back to Juniors. But if you commit to an offensive minded 4th line and stock is as such (meaning in all honesty, ZAR is gone), then there may be a spot. This also involves roster callups when injuries happen.

Aye.

Problem is, who on WBS is going to step up and continue being an offensive threat when the injuries happen?
 

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Aye.

Problem is, who on WBS is going to step up and continue being an offensive threat when the injuries happen?

That remains to be seen but there would be a difference in calling up ZAR vs Guentzel (in 2017), ya know? Or Sprong vs ZAR/Johnson/etc.
 

Peat

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That remains to be seen but there would be a difference in calling up ZAR vs Guentzel (in 2017), ya know? Or Sprong vs ZAR/Johnson/etc.

My point is I don't think we have a Guentzel or a Sprong. I'm not even sure we've got a Sheary.
 
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Big McLargehuge

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I think it also depend on how we elect to structure the 4th line. The idea of the 4th line being a checking line is sort of antiquated. If we set the line up to be an energy or offensive / skill 4th line, I'm okay with Poulin getting time on it. Poulin-Bleuger-Tanev, I would be okay with. Poulin-Lafferty-Tanev, same. As long as the direction isn't "Go out there an hit sum1!", I'm good.

We're definitely in agreement on that last part. I think Sullivan's hopes were more that this 4th line (ZAR-Blueger-Tanev) was filling more of the traditional role of the shutdown line. Both in practice and role the 4th line acted more like the traditional 3rd line while the hope was to have that 3rd line act as a third scoring line...but we all know how well that worked. If we have the manpower to do so, I'm not against this structure. To get that to work requires rebuilding the "third" line entirely. The "fourth" line worked very well and Blueger and Tanev are both closer to ~30 point 3rd liners from a decade ago than traditional 4th liners in terms of skill set and utilization, while ZAR was there for the board battles. Girgensons would pretty much be a plug and play fix for ZAR that is almost too obvious to happen, right down to the taste of offensive talent being shown once every 30 games or so. I do think Girgensons has a 3rd liner level capability that a change of scenery could tap...I just wonder if he wasn't stuck in Buffalo too long for that to still be on the table. That said, he's only 8 months older than ZAR. Damn it Buffalo, stop rushing kids to the league before they're close to being ready. Drafted out of the USHL, signed to play in the AHL as an 18 year-old where he only puts up 17 points in 61 games, and then in the NHL from then on playing almost exclusively in defensive roles and being the target of ridicule for not producing enough to warrant the hype when he's starting 42% of his shifts in the defensive zone with little support. If you want to know how to destroy a kid's offensive ceiling, never allowing them to play in the offensive zone beyond the USHL will be efficiently inefficient. God damn it, Buffalo. f***. That's some Pirates-ass shit.

Just about anything short of thinking this team needs to be tougher in the mold of truculent fourth liners will result in a massive improvement on what that third line gave us in the playoffs. I hope Poulin is part of the answer sooner rather than later, but I do think Hörnqvist is unfortunately going to make it difficult to make that ideal line-up. Hörnqvist can't exactly go on the fourth line if it's being used as the shutdown line, can't be on a third line that can't enter the zone, and can't go in the top six without pissing someone off. I love Hörny to death, but him having a full NMC for another year might be the killer in terms of icing that 'ideal' line-up...on the flip side Hörny's presence in pen on that "third" line may make Sid or Geno's line the only plausible fit for Poulin, which would certainly be a better way to see what he has in a potential a 9 game trial than off-wing in the bottom six...

I have no doubting JR's desire to make a bunch of moves, but I don't know how easily that'll be accomplished on a short schedule with most teams in the league trying to shed salary, many of which desperately. I'm pretty sure every team will make at least one move that will piss fans off this off-season with long-term plans getting shredded league-wide a couple weeks after the trade deadline. And there's an expansion draft looming in less than a year that was already going to have certain teams panicking to prove that they're not panicking.
 
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Pittsburgh1776

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Even if this wasn't the case - and not a lot of reason to believe that - it's just too obvious. Let the guy move. Most of Malkin's goals during our best PP stretch came from the left circle of the slot.

Did they? I always thought he looked out of place on the left side and uncomfortable. I still think he's best in the right circle. We all agree his one-timer isn't the threat it used to be (f*** you Blue Jackets), but he can still control the play from there.
 

Peat

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Did they? I always thought he looked out of place on the left side and uncomfortable. I still think he's best in the right circle. We all agree his one-timer isn't the threat it used to be (f*** you Blue Jackets), but he can still control the play from there.

Somewhere I did a post of all the PP goals we scored in the 26 odd games when we had all of Letang, Crosby and Malkin in the line-up - PP went at a decent clip then. But yeah, in those, mostly left side.

It doesn't look that structured and just because Malkin scored from there isn't necessarily a reason for him to stay there; he wasn't one timing, he was advancing on the net, and no reason he can't done that when popping up. But I think the umbrella should be looking to constantly move if we're using it, and tbh, less umbrella mightn't be a bad idea.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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Frankly I've never understood the insistence on running an umbrella when personnel would SEEM to indicate a half-wall based strategy would be more beneficial. But I'm no coach and would never want to be confused for one.
 

Big McLargehuge

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There's a live question there about how we use the fourth line. Right now, it's trying to play low event hockey. It does it well enough, but it'd be nice to see some scoring threat there. I'm not sure Poulin is the way to go about it, but a reliable and overqualified youngster is generally the best way to supercharge a 4th line - that or an overqualified old-timer.

I'm not throwing anyone from QMJHL to NHL fourth line, even if a Poulin-Blueger-Tanev would be far more offensively adept than your standard fourth line and may even be a combination that works in the future...any line with Blueger and Tanev on it is going to start most of their shifts in the defensive zone and that's not the way to teach a kid out of junior how to play defense or learn the speed of the NHL game. Wouldn't be against seeing it for a shift or two, but eh...giving him ~12 minutes of ice time at ES with Sid & Jake for 9 games sounds nice to me. Sink or swim, except sinking in this scenario is just involves being banished to the kiddie pool for a couple more months. We have to put him in a scenario to succeed so he's not stuck swimming in the urine-filled above-ground pool that the QMJHL has turned into in this metaphor.
 

mpp9

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Frankly I've never understood the insistence on running an umbrella when personnel would SEEM to indicate a half-wall based strategy would be more beneficial. But I'm no coach and would never want to be confused for one.

I dunno. I feel like 87 and 71 are, at their core, ES playmakers. They just happen to be so talented they can also score 40-50 goals in a given season and put up PP numbers based on outpassing the PK.

The PP will likely be average to above average until they bring in legit D for the PP and/or a RHS presence on the left wall.
 
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