Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Yohe and Rossi lie about a self imposed ceiling

[Peat]

I think there's a sizable difference between Domi and McCann, though. Domi's a 2C/2LW on par with Zucker, I think McCann's best case scenario is ending up at that level. McCann spent substantial time in a 2C role with a linemate that fit well with him (Kahun), and he still didn't quite reach Domi in a down year.

McCann didn't reach Domi due to Domi getting more minutes and being less injured. McCann had a higher p/60 and relative xGF%, albeit not by much.

Don't think Domi's on a par with Zucker either when Zucker is a far better playdriver, and posts at 2 p/60 far more regularly.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

So they aren't trading him for McCann then I assume given McCann's cost.

Beats me, but I think McCann will be cheaper than Montour.

 

[SEALBound]

My understanding about the "not being qualified" is that there's not enough room for Montour on Buffalo's roster. He'd be more of a luxury at this point for them as they need to spend money on forwards for this coming season. And then spend money on defense the year following.

I expect the Sabres to trade his rights. But $4m seems quite reasonable for him.

@EVGENIMERLIN Montour is a RD that was playing LD because of Buffalo's depth on the right side.

Speaking of Buffalo players, I wonder what's going on with Zemgus Girgensons.

That is what I read into as well and it seems like there's just discussion on who to keep. Like I said, no performance related necessarily. Girgensons is done at this point. We have better centers in Bleuger and possibly Lafferty. Mittelstadt took a step back as well and some seem to have soured on him. They need a center which is why McCann for Montour makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Maybe McCann+ for Montour+Mittelstadt? They have an interesting roster with good pieces but everyone knows they are not happy. With the number of RFAs and UFAs they have, there is a lot of work to be done and a lot of wiggle room. I really thought someone like Hornqvist could go well there. They miss exactly what he brings. Maybe that's the deal, McCann+Horny for Montour+Mittel? Gives us cap space, gives them a center and a wing replacement. Kahun-McCann-Horny is already a known quantity...perhaps?

Then there's Ristolainen, MoJo, goaltending questions...I mean, there's a lot to like about us being trading partners. I would even be willing to explore something like Bjgustad+Hornqvist for Okposo+

 

[Empoleon8771]

McCann didn't reach Domi due to Domi getting more minutes and being less injured. McCann had a higher p/60 and relative xGF%, albeit not by much.

He also played for a substantially better offensive team and Domi has never been a strong analytical player. Considering the quality of linemates that each has available, I would definitely say that a 1.77 points/60 with Pittsburgh isn't as good as a 1.68 points/60 with Montreal.

Don't think Domi's on a par with Zucker either when Zucker is a far better playdriver, and posts at 2 p/60 far more regularly.

No he doesn't?

15-16: 1.89 points/60 for Domi, 1.12 points/60 for Zucker
16-17: 2.03 points/60 for Domi, 2.38 points/60 for Zucker
17-18: 1.68 points/60 for Domi, 2.10 points/60 for Zucker
18-19: 2.80 points/60 for Domi, 1.37 points/60 for Zucker
19-20: 1.68 points/60 for Domi, 1.97 points/60 for Zucker

They both have 2 years of being at a 2.0 points/60 or better at 5v5 and Domi's production is slightly greater than Zucker's (even with taking out Zucker's 15-16). NST won't do 4 or 5 year totals, but doing rough numbers puts Domi at about a 2.1 5v5 points/60 over the last 5 years and Zucker at about a 1.95 over the last 4 years.

 

[SEALBound]

So they aren't trading him for McCann then I assume given McCann's cost.

Not necessarily, I don't think it's the cost of Montour in a vacuum, rather the cost of Montour relative to their current roster of young similar players. I think they need a McCann more than Montour so they may be more likely to pay McCann $4mil than Montour $4mil.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Is Montour a guy who can quarterback the PP? I have my doubts.

Can he be a stabilizer on the third pairing? Sure. Not sure he would be worth picking up. He is likely going to become a UFA this summer, so I think there are better options available.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Montour a guy who can quarterback the PP? I have my doubts.

Can he be a stabilizer on the third pairing? Sure. Not sure he would be worth picking up. He is likely going to become a UFA this summer, so I think there are better options available.

Didn't he do exactly that in Anaheim?

 

[Peat]

He also played for a substantially better offensive team and Domi has never been a strong analytical player. Considering the quality of linemates that each has available, I would definitely say that a 1.77 points/60 with Pittsburgh isn't as good as a 1.68 points/60 with Montreal.

No he doesn't?

15-16: 1.89 points/60 for Domi, 1.12 points/60 for Zucker
16-17: 2.03 points/60 for Domi, 2.38 points/60 for Zucker
17-18: 1.68 points/60 for Domi, 2.10 points/60 for Zucker
18-19: 2.80 points/60 for Domi, 1.37 points/60 for Zucker
19-20: 1.68 points/60 for Domi, 1.97 points/60 for Zucker

They both have 2 years of being at a 2.0 points/60 or better at 5v5 and Domi's production is slightly greater than Zucker's (even with taking out Zucker's 15-16).

You left out 14-15. And I'd count the 0.03 points off personally, but fair enough if you don't. Either way - Zucker spends a lot more time at about 1st line production than Domi. His lows are worse, and he's never had that explosive high, but he's more consistently at the right level. To me, that matters more.

And this season we outscored Montreal by only .16 g/60, and they generated more chances. Not substantially better offensive in my book. Domi's 4 most common linemates were Suzuki, Armia, Lehkonen and Drouin - McCann's Kahun, Hornqvist, Simon and Tanev. I don't think that's advantage to McCann on quality either.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Didn't he do exactly that in Anaheim?

Did he? I honestly do not recall. I know Vatanen did for a while, then after that I do not know.

 

[SEALBound]

Sounds like we signed Kevin Steven's kid from Yale. Hopefully that's not the major target JR was talking about...

Is Montour a guy who can quarterback the PP? I have my doubts.

Can he be a stabilizer on the third pairing? Sure. Not sure he would be worth picking up. He is likely going to become a UFA this summer, so I think there are better options available.

I think he's capable as any of them to do it. He's not an elite PPQB if that's what you're asking though. Could he do the #2PP while Letang does the #1? Yes I believe so. Letang, Marino, and Montour as the PPQBs would be fine with me.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Sounds like we signed Kevin Steven's kid from Yale. Hopefully that's not the major target JR was talking about...



I think he's capable as any of them to do it. He's not an elite PPQB if that's what you're asking though. Could he do the #2PP while Letang does the #1? Yes I believe so. Letang, Marino, and Montour as the PPQBs would be fine with me.

Yeah, that does not work for me. Letang has to go to the second unit or else the PP will continue to struggle.

ESPECIALLY if we cannot find a suitable right-shooting forward to play the half-boards.

If we get Montour, I want him on the first unit.

 

[Peat]

Montour played roughly 2 minutes a night on the PP at Anaheim, with a pretty effective season in 17-18. Hasn't been consistent there though and not, insofar as I can see, for want of time with the best players on his team.

Sounds like we signed Kevin Steven's kid from Yale. Hopefully that's not the major target JR was talking about...

Probably not - doesn't fit the profile of the major target, but does of the guy they thought wanted to go elsewhere.

 

[OswaldBates]

why in God's name would you trade all that for Domi, Good Lord some of you just fall in love with average players

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, that does not work for me. Letang has to go to the second unit or else the PP will continue to struggle.

ESPECIALLY if we cannot find a suitable right-shooting forward to play the half-boards.

If we get Montour, I want him on the first unit.

I don't think that's going to happen though. The PP can be successful with Letang at the point. The PP woes go way deeper than that. Montour alone isn't fixing it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't think that's going to happen though. The PP can be successful with Letang at the point. The PP woes go way deeper than that. Montour alone isn't fixing it.

We need two things to fix the power play: move Letang to the second unit and replace him with a PP QB (a real one), and secondly find a guy who can attract defensive attention away from Malkin on the other side of the ice, which is usually done with a player who can shoot the puck right-handed from the left side. Kessel rarely shot so even he was not ideal.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Mittelstadt is interesting. If I had any confidence that Sullivan would keep him at center I would love to get him. But if Mittelstadt is playing wing for Ralph Krueger, you can be sure he will play wing for Mike Sullivan too.

 

[SEALBound]

We need two things to fix the power play: move Letang to the second unit and replace him with a PP QB (a real one), and secondly find a guy who can attract defensive attention away from Malkin on the other side of the ice, which is usually done with a player who can shoot the puck right-handed from the left side. Kessel rarely shot so even he was not ideal.

I don't disagree necessarily but I'm telling you, it's not happening, especially with Schultz leaving. Best case, Marino may get a cup of coffee from time to time. Problem is, legit #1PPQBs are tough to come by, especially at a cost we can afford.

It's like the "we need a top line RW for Sid's line!". Well duh...but who is available at a price we can afford? At some point we have to accept who we have and make who we have work. When you have Sid, Geno, and Letang as your core, they get the #1PP. Mix and match the other two and coach them properly.

Mittelstadt is interesting. If I had any confidence that Sullivan would keep him at center I would love to get him. But if Mittelstadt is playing wing for Ralph Krueger, you can be sure he will play wing for Mike Sullivan too.

It's odd, the kid was a stud two years ago. Buffalo loved him. Then he fell off a cliff. Haven't investigated as to why yet though. He would be a add it to even things out type of player in a trade to us.

 

[chethejet]

Look Marino will be a top RD after this coming year and Pens IMHO will move Letang to pay Marino. Which brings me to Montour as a second RD if his contract is not prohibitive as a RFA. MY guess is he will be moved by the Sabres and do I like him here. Yes for the right number and he is a good D man. PP aside, he fills a need in the organization and his style and age certainly fit the bill. Move JJ at 3.25 million 3 years and Pens have a sunk cost of 1 million more per year at 4.25 million for Montour. Petts is the deal I just don't like.

 

[Turin]

Gonchar really did a number on the psyche of Pens fans on what it means to be a QB and what exactly is important on the powerplay.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Gonchar really did a number on the psyche of Pens fans on what it means to be a QB and what exactly is important on the powerplay.

Gonchar the player is what this PP needs right about now.

 

[Turin]

Gonchar the player is what this PP needs right about now.

This is what I mean. People are so married to a Gonchar style umbrella powerplay that they totally ignore what Letang does do well and how powerplays actually excel in 2020.

 

[NMK11]

Honestly if we could get someone to take PP minutes away from Letang, that might allow him to play more ES minutes where I think it's clear he is a top talent in the league.

This is what I mean. People are so married to a Gonchar style umbrella powerplay that they totally ignore what Letang does do well and how powerplays actually excel in 2020.

This too. I think with the league being more aggressive on PKs vs then it's not the only way, and maybe not even the best way, to play a PP.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm going to get annoying because I keep saying this, but one of the biggest issues with our PP is we don't utilize the bumper position nearly enough. It opens up so much more room for the other guys because it forces the PK to almost shrink to the front of the net to make sure the bumper player is covered, allowing your points to walk right in and shoot or have clear shots from long range.

PKs can just pressure our points because we don't make them pay with someone setup in the slot to fire home one-touch passes from the sideboards/behind the net.

 

[Andy P]

Here are your 2020-2021 Pittsburgh Penguins lol

FORWARDS:
Zucker(5.5)-Crosby(8.7)-McCann(2.75?)
Guentzel(6)-Malkin(9.5)-Rust(3.5)
Tanev(3.5)-Bjugstad(4.1)-Hornqvist(5.3)
Reese(1)-Blueger(.750)-Lafferty(.925?)

DEFENSE:
Dumoulin(4.1)-Letang(7.25)
Petterson(4.03)-Marino(.925)
Johnson(3.25)-Ruhwedel(.700)

GOALIE:
Jarry(4?)
DeSmith(1.25)

EXTRAS:
Angello(.900?)
Trotman(.900?)

Total= $69.355
Cap= $81.5
Savings= $12.145
After cap hits= $2.67

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wish the Penguins ran a 1-3-1 powerplay, with Guentzel in the slot and Hornqvist in front of the net.

Like what is their actual powerplay strategy right now? Feed Malkin for 1-timers and hope that works?