Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Mathensum
- Thread starter Gurglesons
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Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Waiiiiit. They’re keeping Jones? I figured they were making it worth Minnesota’s while to take Jones in the deal.
Freeptop
Registered User
As crazy as it seems, they may just keep Jones as the backup in that situation, since Dell is a UFA, and they don't have another goaltender.
They could also try to unload Jones and then sign a backup in free agency, but Jones has a worse contract than JJ, so good luck with that.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Right now being a Minnesota Wild fan is like being a Pittsburgh Penguin fan without any of the success or franchise players.
Tom Hanks
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- Nov 10, 2017
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No one would take Jones. Let me rephrase, no one in their right mind would take Jones (JR has entered the chat
). He’ll be a compliance buyout next season.
Pens x
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- Oct 8, 2016
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Give me a break, the Habs also didn’t play for 4 months.This is such a homer excuse. We lost to a below average team, and have looked lifeless for the last couple of playoffs.
thats the point. nobody played for an extended period of time its little more than random outcomes.
SHOOTANDSCORE
Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
- Sep 25, 2005
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I don't think the break is the cause. I agree with JR's assessment that the team just didn't want it enough. There was no hunger, no desperation. It was obvious from the puck drop.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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Malgin: 22 goals and 50 points in 145 games in the last 3 years while not playing with Crosby
Simon: 19 goals and 62 points in 168 games in the last 3 years while playing a lot with Crosby
And before someone mentions Simon's defensive analytics, there's also this:
I mean...
Malgin's a 5'9 skilled guy who isn't skilled enough to live and die on that aspect of his game. He's the type of guy who will get ice time on a team with no depth, but will be more of a 13th forward/injury replacement on a team with good depth.
His ice time continued to dwindle to the point after his trade to Toronto, he didn't have a spot in the lineup. Meanwhile, Simon's ice time has continued to go up the last 3 seasons.
EightyOne
My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
- Nov 23, 2016
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The series was NOT random
The Pens sucked before the COVID break and came out stumbling like fools again
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
It's not random. The Pens strategy doesn't work against the trap. People should understand that already. 3 years in a row now..same thing.
On top of that, the desire wasn't there. Having a more skilled roster only goes so far.
66-30-33
Registered User
The first 10 minutes of game 1 was PURE domination by Pens, after that I agree.
all games are random.
Games are eapecially random after a 4 month layoff.
and they didn't come out sucking.
they absolutely carried the ply in game one. Price and our PP let the steal a game. We won game two convincingly. Collapsed in game 3 after getting a big lead and played like dogshit in game 4.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Usage isn't proof of ability. Coaches make bad lineup decisions all of the time.
Nothing you said refutes what the stats say, which are that Malgin and Simon are basically indistinguishable from each other.
Not in the least. It's not about "OMG Pittsburgh lost" and thus making up excuses. I apply that to EVERYONE. The reason there's such a benefit to an 82 game schedule is players get into grove and kinks get worked out as the season progresses. It's the same reason why I never get worked up over the first 10-20 games of a season.
So yeah, I put zero faith in what happened with Montreal over a 4 game stint after a 4 month break. Yeah everyone was in the same boat... but that doesn't change the circumstances.
Pens x
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We were embarrassed by trap teams two years in a row. The Penguins played uninterested. The Covid cup was advantageous for the Penguins because Guentzel was available.
We lost because our coach has no idea how to combat against the trap. We took low percentage shots the entire series. I swear, he must have told them to throw it on net from wherever and we will get some lucky bounces.
I vehemently disagree that the Pens would have done any better against the Habs even if the season was played.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I feel like Minnesota trading Dubnyk makes Murray to Minnesota very likely to happen. And before the Wild fan comes in here and starts screaming about Kahkonen, most good teams have 2 good goalies and it's unlikely Kahkonen would be taken in the expansion draft over someone like Soucy or Greenway, who I think Minnesota will leave exposed.
Assuming Donato and Dubnyk go to San Jose, I think Minnesota's protection list will be Parise, Zuccarello, Fiala, Eriksson-Ek, Foligno (re-signed and protected), Kunin and whatever forward they get for Dumba at forward, Suter, Brodin and Spurgeon on defense and Murray (if they trade for him) in net. That leaves Soucy, Greenway, Kahkonen, Rask, Stalock and whoever they get for Donato and Dubnyk as expansion eligible.
Assuming Donato and Dubnyk go to San Jose, I think Minnesota's protection list will be Parise, Zuccarello, Fiala, Eriksson-Ek, Foligno (re-signed and protected), Kunin and whatever forward they get for Dumba at forward, Suter, Brodin and Spurgeon on defense and Murray (if they trade for him) in net. That leaves Soucy, Greenway, Kahkonen, Rask, Stalock and whoever they get for Donato and Dubnyk as expansion eligible.
ownal
Registered User
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
San Jose is in transition and put too much stock into an aging defense core heavily offensive and a front core in transition from an aging core. I don't think the issue is Jone's.
Adding Dubnyk does nothing but add to their issues of wasting cap at a particular area of no need.
Adding Dubnyk does nothing but add to their issues of wasting cap at a particular area of no need.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Rutherford is still the GM; Sullivan is still the coach; we have no replacement for Kessel, STILL, so the offense still revolves around two guys for the umpteenth season; the power play lacks the threat on the left half-boards; the goaltending has question marks (mostly due to money, but also the backup situation could be a problem); the defense is simply not good enough and adding Matheson could be a total disaster; we still don't have a power-play QB, and we're going to need one more and more as Crosby and Malkin age; we still don't have a quality No. 3 center; our future is bleak with precious few legitimate prospects and even fewer quality draft picks the next two seasons; the division is the best in hockey and only figures to get better as we get worse, especially the Rangers...
That is why we are not a playoff team.
Well, first of all, it's possible to be both...
I mean, just because I think the market isn't as bad for Murray specifically as most, doesn't mean I think JR is doing a great job, here!
So, on the topic of the goalie market, the hockey media talks a lot about how many goalies are going to be available, but there's another side to that: how many teams are going to need a goalie? And then there's the fact that not all goalies are created equal. A market isn't determined solely by supply, but also by demand.
Is this an ideal offseason to be trading a goalie? Of course not. That's why I don't think a Murray trade will bring back a 1st.
But the idea that somehow every team that wants a goalie will pick one up and leave JR holding Murray at the end is a bit silly. The real competition for Murray is the list I was commenting on: Khudobin, Holtby, Markstrom, Lehner, Crawford. Add in Murray, and that's 6 goalies at the top of the list for any team looking to acquire a starter. Maybe some team deludes themselves into thinking Talbot of Lundqvist are good enough, but they're really the next tier down, at best. Still, that gives a worst-case scenario of 8 top goalies.
Now, how many teams need a starter? The Caps don't need Holtby, and the Pens don't need Murray, but if any of Khudobin, Markstrom, Lehner or Crawford aren't re-signed, those teams will be looking for a replacement. So that's 4 teams right there.
Then you've got the teams that are obviously looking for a starter: Devils, Hurricanes, Oilers, Sabres, Senators and Sharks. So that's 6 more teams.
Then you've got the teams that are rumored to want a new goalie: Avalanche, Maple Leafs, Flames and Wild. So now we've added 4 more teams. So that's 14 teams looking for a goaltender.
Now some of those teams need a starting goaltender more critically than others. I'm going to knock off that last group, because they're looking for upgrades, but could easily decide they can live with what they've already got. In fact, I'll even toss the Knights in with that group, since they could decide to patch things up with Fleury. If we want to get down to a worst-case scenario, maybe the Sens decide they're just going to full-on tank, so they don't need a good goalie yet. That still leaves 8 teams for 6-8 top goaltenders.
Realistically, there are more teams in the market than that, because at least some of the teams in the "rumored" category are going to be involved. The Avs and the Leafs, at least, fancy themselves to be potential Cup contenders, and feel that a better goaltender gives them a better chance. They don't have to have decided on Murray being that guy - they can just make it so that one or more of the teams that absolutely needs a goaltender loses out on their top choices.
The Pens may have to wait until all of Khudobin, Holtby, Markstrom, Lehner and Crawford are signed, but they'll find a trading partner. And given that teams start mysteriously getting ideas as to how impending free agents are leaning before free agency actually begins every year, I wouldn't be surprised to see a team make a move at the draft. All it takes is one team deciding they don't feel confident they can sign one of the top choices. After all, if you're Khudobin, for example, who would you rather sign with? Colorado, or Buffalo? Murray has no trade protection, and still has RFA years left.
Great post. You might be right, and Murray could end up netting us a great return. I just have zero faith in this management team right now. Heck, the entire organization, top to bottom.
We were top 10 in the NHL, but we were fading badly and the moves we made did not make the team better at all. And we looked more or less the same in the bubble that we did before the pause, save for a few minutes early in Game 1. So yeah, I am preaching the same shit because the same shit is what is happening.
This team needs a new GM and a new head coach in the worst way. The team has tuned the latter out, and the former is no longer capable of patching together a winning franchise. Bottom line.
To make the playoffs, we have to be among the 5 best teams in the Metropolitan. The SIXTH and SEVENTH teams in our division last season were the Islanders and Rangers. One made the final four, and the other is the most talented young team in the entire league. So yeah, we are building a team to continue to reach Cup finals, yet we are going to be nip and tuck to make the postseason in Crosby and Malkin's next 2-3 campaigns.
And the people most responsible for that are all still here.
The Great Mighty Poo
Thank You 59.
if Dubnyk gets a first, it’s only because they’re trading him with a young skilled forward or top 4 D and with retention, plus he only has one year left on his deal, which is huge...the Pens won’t be doing that...Murray has value in a vacuum, but in the real world, teams know JR has to move a goalie and Murray has arbitration rights and is looking for a long term deal at $6+ mil...you have to really love the goalie as a number one netminder over others in the market to trade a good asset for him...
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
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