Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: ¿Hold?

[Gurglesons]

Hey, one run like this from a rental is worth quite a bit.

I mean, I agree. I'm upset we didn't go for Palms. But I'm not upset we did not pay a 1st for him.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Rossi says before the injury Malkin was discussing a 3 year, 6M AAV. Pre-injury that seems low to me, but I don't know where people are getting 10.5M or Ovechkin money either. I really believe J.P. Barry would have to be on something strong to think anyone is going to pay Malkin that now. Not after this. I don't think he's that crazy. I also would be shocked to see the team commit to Malkin before seeing him skate. There's no rush. You also don't want to wait too long because if he comes back gangbusters like 2012, his value goes up again.

Letang is far more likely to get the higher number and potentially price himself out of Pittsburgh IMO.

Rossi is very plugged in to Malkin, obviously. I buy it totally and it would be a boon for us if Geno took 3 years/$18M. Would be a fitting retirement contract for a legend.

I disagree with @Big Friggin Dummy on Malkin using the Ovechkin deal. Ovechkin has leverage: He's Ovechkin. But more importantly it's to chase Gretzky's record. Leonsis is not stupid and knows how much attention/money this will bring his team even once their window is fully closed.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, I agree. I'm upset we didn't go for Palms. But I'm not upset we did not pay a 1st for him.

We paid more than that for Zucker

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think we could be playing a dangerous game re: Jake, tbh. You run the risk of him losing a pretty hefty amount of his value if/when he struggles again next spring in the playoffs, or if he takes another bad hit and hurts his already bum shoulder. Especially now that the league saw the Isles play him physically and how badly he deviated from his game. Everybody's gonna be gunning for Jake all season/playoffs now.

I'm not saying dump the guy for peanuts or anything like that, but I'd be really aggressive this summer in looking for a trade that made sense. If it's out there, don't hesitate to pull the trigger.

(I know we're not moving Jake. We're not doing anything of substance. Everything's peachy! From Sully, to the forwards, to the goalie situation. )

Either Jake or Rust has to go this summer. Just has to. I want shakeups, dangit. Doesn't Burke have the whole "1 big move an offseason" thing?

Jake brings higher upside but higher risk. Is he permanently a 5'9 Marcus Pettersson at forward after the shoulder injury? In terms of benching like 105 kinda stuff?

 

[Gurglesons]

We paid more than that for Zucker

I'm not sure why you continually go back to this. Should we have paid a 1st for a rental LW instead of Zucker last year?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Even after our window is closed people will still pile into the seats to see the end of the Sid/Geno era. I think it'd be dumb of Geno's camp to not push the envelope for the most money they can get, tbh. It's his last deal, or very likely to be his last deal. His knee is jacked up, and he's gonna be almost 36 by the time he signs, but I expect him to ask for a bunch of money and the team to oblige. Maybe not to the degree Washington/Leonsis will re: Ovechkin (Leonsis has already publicly said they'll sign Ovechkin to whatever he wants without question), but I think Geno's camp will absolutely use his contract as a starting point. I'm pretty skeptical he'll take less than $8 million, but if he did, I'd by pleasantly surprised.

I think Letang could easily take the same deal he has now, if not ask for more money. Dude's aging the best of the three and is already on a great deal.

I'm hopeful, but pretty skeptical that we're gonna see the team spending less than like $14 million AAV combined for Geno and Letang's next deals.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Either Jake or Rust has to go this summer. Just has to. I want shakeups, dangit. Doesn't Burke have the whole "1 big move an offseason" thing?

Jake brings higher upside but higher risk. Is he permanently a 5'9 Marcus Pettersson at forward after the shoulder injury? In terms of benching like 105 kinda stuff?

I think Rust is the no-brainer, but Jake makes more sense than a lot of people want to admit, apparently.

Nothing's gonna happen though. I'd be utterly shocked after the way Hexturke has been talking about how happy they are with the coach, roster, goalies, etc. The team's on cruise control until next summer, then the decisions will begin, imo.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Even after our window is closed people will still pile into the seats to see the end of the Sid/Geno era.

Sig bet on this one. Pittsburgh fans are fickle and will start tuning out once we miss the playoffs. There will be a lot of empty seats when that happens, even if the team still claims sellouts.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think Rust is the no-brainer, but Jake makes more sense than a lot of people want to admit, apparently.

Something about the totality of L1 was messed up by the end of last season. The gap between how they were perceived and treated by their teammates, coach and media and the actual on-ice results was staggering. The chemistry was never as great as it was made out to be and all 3 players took a big dip in form by the end individually.

It was less than the sum of its parts but the coach/fanbase/media played this "emperor has no clothes" thing in claiming they were some sort of juggernaut. Really their only saving grace is that Tristan Jarry drew attention away from their horrible performance.

So I don't know. Rust was a contributor to that line breaking but he was also a victim of it as well. If we trade Jake for a 2C and move Geno to 1LW, I think Rust could be a great RW with Sid & Geno.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hopefully Guentzel retires next year. Career is basically over tbh.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Rossi is very plugged in to Malkin, obviously. I buy it totally and it would be a boon for us if Geno took 3 years/$18M. Would be a fitting retirement contract for a legend.

I disagree with @Big Friggin Dummy on Malkin using the Ovechkin deal. Ovechkin has leverage: He's Ovechkin. But more importantly it's to chase Gretzky's record. Leonsis is not stupid and knows how much attention/money this will bring his team even once their window is fully closed.

Just as important, Malkin doesn't really have any leverage left after this injury. I don't think it was ever going to take arm twisting for him to take a good deal for the team anyway; he has always said his desire is to win and play for the same team his entire career. The people who claim Malkin will test the market because he will want more money than the Pens can offer have never understood what makes him tick IMO and have no relationship with him or sources around him. Sadly, that describes all but one person in the Pittsburgh and national media. The phrase 'talking out of your ass' is overused these days but there is no more accurate description for the media when the topic turns to Malkin.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Something about the totality of L1 was messed up by the end of last season. The gap between how they were perceived and treated by their teammates, coach and media and the actual on-ice results was staggering. The chemistry was never as great as it was made out to be and all 3 players took a big dip in form by the end individually.

It was less than the sum of its parts but the coach/fanbase/media played this "emperor has no clothes" thing in claiming they were some sort of juggernaut. Really their only saving grace is that Tristan Jarry drew attention away from their horrible performance.

So I don't know. Rust was a contributor to that line breaking but he was also a victim of it as well. If we trade Jake for a 2C and move Geno to 1LW, I think Rust could be a great LW with Sid & Geno.

Yeah, L1 beat up on some real bad teams and chipped in some EN points. At no point during the season was I ever really impressed with Sid or Jake, the latter especially. He took like half a dozen shots from range with any real mustard on 'em, or any real threat to score. He either had no confidence in his shoulder, or it was still physically bothering him. Either way, he had the least impressive, most forgettable PPG season I can ever remember seeing.

Rust needed to do something to contribute. If he's not gonna be scoring, he has to remember how to play the all-around game and work his ass off for puck battles and loose pucks. Kap wasn't scoring but he was hustling like crazy and doing work along the boards and in the corners. Rust just kinda existed, and happened to score on two long-range shots that should've been saved, if we're being honest.

Jake was flat-out awful. Losing his mind all series whenever he got hit. Chopping at guys, barking at refs, etc. He was terrible defensively, like he always is, and a non-entity offensively. He can't suck across the board for 3 straight playoff appearances and have all the support in the world from fans and the FO. Just doesn't make sense. Dude's been as big a disappointment as any one factor this series outside of Jarry, imo.

Sig bet on this one. Pittsburgh fans are fickle and will start tuning out once we miss the playoffs. There will be a lot of empty seats when that happens, even if the team still claims sellouts.

I don't care enough to make a sig bet that I probably won't even remember about in like 3 years when the window is objectively, inarguably closed. Hell, I think it's closed now realistically. We're miles behind Vegas, Colorado and Tampa in terms of Cup contention and we're not gonna get any closer keeping the same roster, coach and goalies.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, L1 beat up on some real bad teams and chipped in some EN points. At no point during the season was I ever really impressed with Sid or Jake, the latter especially. He took like half a dozen shots from range with any real mustard on 'em, or any real threat to score. He either had no confidence in his shoulder, or it was still physically bothering him. Either way, he had the least impressive, most forgettable PPG season I can ever remember seeing.

	PPG: 5-on-5	PP	EN	4-on-4/3-on-3	Total
Crosby '18-'19	.77	.37	.08	.1	1.27
Crosby '21	.49	.41	.15 (lol)	.22 (lol)	1.13
Diff	-.28	+.04	+.07	+.12	-.14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sidney Crosby - Summary - Natural Stat Trick

Some numbers may not be mutually exclusive (e.g., team pulls goalie while on PK), hence not adding to 0 in the diff, but ya get the picture. Massive decline in 5-on-5 productivity propped up by other situations at a rate that is unsustainable.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Geno doesn’t strike me as a money first guy. Hope he takes a friendlier deal.

 

[66-30-33]

Geno doesn’t strike me as a money first guy. Hope he takes a friendlier deal.

I kinda hope Malkin bounces to another team since every offseason all we hear is nothing but disrespect against him from the media shits after the shit he's done for the team. He wont, he will wanna finish out his career on 1 team only like Crosby and probably Letang.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, Geno's making $9.5 million dollars. He's definitely a money-second guy if he's not a money-first guy.

When he signed his deal, the max cap hit was $13.8 million. He left money on the table, sure, but he was the 2nd highest cap hit in the league--$500k behind Ovechkin's $10 million.

1. Ovechkin - $10 mil
2. Malkin - $9.5 mil
3. Subban - $9 mil
4. Crosby - $8.7 mil
5. Perry - $8.6 mil
6. Lundqvist - $8.5 mil
7. Giroux - $8.275 mil
8 . E. Staal - $8.25
9. Getzlaf - $8.25
10. Kessel - $8 mil

I have no problem with a player wanting to make as much as possible. Very short window to do so as a professional athlete. But to act like Geno's been a guy willing to take pennies is, uh, wrong.

 

[Ryder71]

We should sign Saad and trade Jake.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hopefully Guentzel retires next year. Career is basically over tbh.

Freed from his prison of the flesh and petty human senses, Jake Guentzel finally ascends to the next plane of being.

 

[pistolpete11]

I mean, Geno's making $9.5 million dollars. He's definitely a money-second guy if he's not a money-first guy.

When he signed his deal, the max cap hit was $13.8 million. He left money on the table, sure, but he was the 2nd highest cap hit in the league--$500k behind Ovechkin's $10 million.

1. Ovechkin - $10 mil
2. Malkin - $9.5 mil
3. Subban - $9 mil
4. Crosby - $8.7 mil
5. Perry - $8.6 mil
6. Lundqvist - $8.5 mil
7. Giroux - $8.275 mil
8 . E. Staal - $8.25
9. Getzlaf - $8.25
10. Kessel - $8 mil

I have no problem with a player wanting to make as much as possible. Very short window to do so as a professional athlete. But to act like Geno's been a guy willing to take pennies is, uh, wrong.

If I remember correctly, Malkin was one of the first batch of players that signed their deals under the new contract limits. That plays a factor when comparing him to the rest of the league at that time.

I don't expect him to take peanuts, but I think the Pens offer should be essentially to match Crosby and Malkin's career earnings. I think it works out to 3-4 years at $6-7M per.

 

[JRS91]

I think $7.1M a season for 3 years is a very fair deal for Malkin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not sure why you continually go back to this. Should we have paid a 1st for a rental LW instead of Zucker last year?

We should have not wasted our meager assets on something we didn't truly need.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

If I remember correctly, Malkin was one of the first batch of players that signed their deals under the new contract limits. That plays a factor when comparing him to the rest of the league at that time.

I don't expect him to take peanuts, but I think the Pens offer should be essentially to match Crosby and Malkin's career earnings. I think it works out to 3-4 years at $6-7M per.

I was just looking at that this morning. And it is tough to make that happen because Sid started playing a year earlier. To match the earnings, difference is 28.4 mil, you would have to give Malkin a 3 year deal for 9.46 mil and that is too much at this point in his career. But you could give him a 4 year deal for 7.1 mil. Sid would make something during that 4th year but does it really matter, he will be 38.

Aka, I don't believe it is realistic to make it match exactly. But a 3 year deal for 6-7.1mil a season would make it pretty close. It not being exactly the same is ok with me because Sid is always communicating with the media while Malkin chooses to be in the background.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Rust is objectively not a top-10 to 15 RWer in the NHL. He's a 2nd liner that plays with 2 elite linemates.

Whatever team pays him like a top line forward is going to realize really damn quickly that he isn't that. He's a beneficiary of his circumstances, he's a 2nd line winger who gets inflated production by playing with Guentzel and one of two generational centers.

Sid and Geno are great but let's be honest both are past their primes. Neither plays on a "generational" level at this point of their careers.

I disagree that Rust benefits from circumstance. He used to be a 20g/40pt top 9 player. But IMO his last 2 seasons he proved he's a legit 30 goal 60-70 point winger. And he didn't even play on PP1 until 2021. His production is definitely 1st line quality.
Plus add in the fact that he's a great 2 way player who excels in every situation and every in every zone. IMO he's a lock to be a top 15 RW, and can be argued as a top 10 RW depending if you believe his offensive production is a fluke or not.

 

[pistolpete11]

I was just looking at that this morning. And it is tough to make that happen because Sid started playing a year earlier. To match the earnings, difference is 28.4 mil, you would have to give Malkin a 3 year deal for 9.46 mil and that is too much at this point in his career. But you could give him a 4 year deal for 7.1 mil. Sid would make something during that 4th year but does it really matter, he will be 38.

Aka, I don't believe it is realistic to make it match exactly. But a 3 year deal for 6-7.1mil a season would make it pretty close. It not being exactly the same is ok with me because Sid is always communicating with the media while Malkin chooses to be in the background.

Yeah it's going to be tough to match exactly since Malkin has played 1 less year despite being 1 year older. But in that ballpark.

4 years at $7.1M

3 years at $6.6M (their career earnings difference minus 1 year at $8.7M which is the standard that Crosby set.)

Malkin could push for more if he wants and I for one wouldn't hold it against him, but if he truly wants to be a Penguin for his entire career, to have a shot at winning a 4th Cup, and to finish this thing off with Crosby (and Letang), I think it's reasonable for both sides.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Breaking news from Kingerski: Pens won't be exposing Malkin or Jarry in the Expansion Draft.

Wild. I know.