Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: ¿Hold?

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I still think it's weird to say Geno's never cared about money while he's rockin' a $9.5 million AAV. Yeah, he probably could've pushed the envelope and gotten max cap, but like, almost $10 million ain't exactly a bargain bin deal here.

His camp is gonna use Ovechkin's deal for leverage, if they want, and I have no doubt they'll try to get every last dollar of salary they can since he's 100% done after this next deal, imo. If he even finishes it.

I expect something like $8 million for Geno, and anywhere between $6 million and $8 million for Letang--the latter if his camp wants to play hard ball, since his current deal is already a bargain and he's playing the best out of the big three.

 

[Pancakes]

I still think it's weird to say Geno's never cared about money while he's rockin' a $9.5 million AAV. Yeah, he probably could've pushed the envelope and gotten max cap, but like, almost $10 million ain't exactly a bargain bin deal here.

His camp is gonna use Ovechkin's deal for leverage, if they want, and I have no doubt they'll try to get every last dollar of salary they can since he's 100% done after this next deal, imo. If he even finishes it.

I expect something like $8 million for Geno, and anywhere between $6 million and $8 million for Letang--the latter if his camp wants to play hard ball, since his current deal is already a bargain and he's playing the best out of the big three.

I hope we find a way to keep both even if the term/money aren't ideal.

Those guys are Penguins and they shouldn't go until they retire or unless they want to. Besides the talent is still there and you never know when one of them might just show up and have a ridiculous old man season. Joe Sakic had 100 points at 37.

 

[madinsomniac]

The Penguins re-prioritizing 36 year old Jeff Carter as "core" after one admittedly impressive but very brief run with the team while being outright hostile towards Malkin and to a degree Guentzel sounds like some yinzer bullshit fanfic stuff, to me. Good thing it's TIOPS who, as far as I'm aware, has somehow never been right about anything.

Not shooting the messenger, Andy.

yeah there are lots of words the I in TIOPS could stand for and insider absolutely isn’t one lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I hope we find a way to keep both even if the term/money aren't ideal.

Those guys are Penguins and they shouldn't go until they retire or unless they want to. Besides the talent is still there and you never know when one of them might just show up and have a ridiculous old man season. Joe Sakic had 100 points at 37.

I'm less worried about the cap hit, though I think it's gonna be pretty silly to be spending close to half the cap on three or four guys roughly 35/36 years old.

My worry is that they'll be just good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt, but nowhere near good enough to do any damage in the playoffs. So we'll miss out on premium picks/prospects while still having no real shot at competing.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't partially hoping Geno retired next summer. I don't see the team being able to part with these guys, and handing them ~3 year deals is just gonna keep us in that weird purgatory between rebuilding and contending.

 

[Gurglesons]

ITT: Neal is a more versatile winger than Guentzel.

also ITT: I hope Evgeni Malkin retires next year.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Really? I would easily.

Over the last 2 seasons, Rusty averaged a pace of 36 goals and 72 points (in a 82 game season). Rusty excels at every single aspect of hockey and is arguably a top 10-15 RW in the league. $4 mil per year.

Tarasenko is older, 1 dimensional, 3 seasons in a row filled with injuries, and makes $8 mill a season. This past season he had 4g and 14 points in 24 games.

I wouldn't trade Rust for Tarasenko even if they added a 2nd rnd pick.

 

[Gurglesons]

Over the last 2 seasons, Rusty averaged a pace of 36 goals and 72 points (in a 82 game season). Rusty excels at every single aspect of hockey and is arguably a top 10-15 RW in the league. $4 mil per year.

Tarasenko is older, 1 dimensional, 3 seasons in a row filled with injuries, and makes $8 mill a season. This past season he had 4g and 14 points in 24 games.

I wouldn't trade Rust for Tarasenko even if they added a high draft pick.

I'm not sure we watch the same Tarasenko if you think he is 1 dimensional. 7.5 a season.

I guess I see Tarasenko as a player that adds more to our roster than what Rust does.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm just worried about Tarasenko's durability and how badly his shoulder/knee stuff has affected his ability to shoot and skate, respectively.

Big chunk of money to take on in order to roll the dice that he'll be the missing Kessel element.

If we're moving Rust, I'd want futures. If we're moving Jake, try and find a 1:1 a la Neal-Hornqvist where we land a better fit even if we lose out on the statsheet.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh the reason I don't believe the "they'll extend Carter" talk is because I fully expect Carter to retire after this contract is done. But if he's willing to re-sign for a reasonable rate to basically play it out with Crosby, Malkin and Letang, I'm totally down to extend him. I don't think Carter is anything even close to what he was with the Penguins last year, but he's still probably a 35-45 point 3C that plays in all situations. He's basically what everyone loved Bonino for being, but without having poor skating.

If he's willing to sign a 2 year, $3 million AAV deal after next season, I'd be happy to give him that. The worst case scenario is that he regresses and Blueger (or Poulin if we're talking about further down the line) takes his 3C spot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Over the last 2 seasons, Rusty averaged a pace of 36 goals and 72 points (in a 82 game season). Rusty excels at every single aspect of hockey and is arguably a top 10-15 RW in the league. $4 mil per year.

Tarasenko is older, 1 dimensional, 3 seasons in a row filled with injuries, and makes $8 mill a season. This past season he had 4g and 14 points in 24 games.

I wouldn't trade Rust for Tarasenko even if they added a 2nd rnd pick.

Rust is objectively not a top-10 to 15 RWer in the NHL. He's a 2nd liner that plays with 2 elite linemates.

Whatever team pays him like a top line forward is going to realize really damn quickly that he isn't that. He's a beneficiary of his circumstances, he's a 2nd line winger who gets inflated production by playing with Guentzel and one of two generational centers.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Rust puts up solid numbers and is a pretty decent two-way guy but he's been a ghost in the playoffs for 4 years in a row now.

 

[cygnus47]

I feel like Trotz is a better coach than Sullivan, so I feel like the results probably would've been similar from a pure coaching perspective. I can't assume the roster would've been the same though. I don't think Sullivan is a bad coach, just not as good as Trotz. I think 2019 proved that.



He probably would've had a lot more success in Washington if the Penguins didn't beat him twice in a row.

I'll say in 2018, I truly think the team was just gassed after two long runs. That and mistakes by the defense, namely Letang, and a general lack of depth scoring cost them the series.



They're missing one of their best forwards.



The depth the team had in 2016 and 2017 was incredible.

Keep in mind, I don't think Sullivan is a bad coach. He's a better coach than Bylsma was, but he's fallen into the same habits. I was very high on Trotz when he was in Nashville and really wanted him here, he's one of the best coaches in the league and at the time I thought he was one of the most underrated coaches.

Agreed. Just don’t want people lumping in 2016 with the rest of his tenure because if anything, what we need is to go back to that system and identity.

 

[SEALBound]

TIOPS again...from another poster...lol

“For those that care about what TIOPS has to say, a post today states:

--According to TIOPS, Hextall has now been including Carter in talks about "the core." TIOPS believes Hextall will look to extend Carter beyond next season. TIOPS added that Hextall reportedly said something to the effect that, after adding Carter, he didn't see any real weaknesses with the team. (How'd that go for you in the playoffs?)

--TIOPS also says there is belief the Penguins will look to extend Letang this summer, if they can reach a mutual agreement about $$ & term. TIOPS says confidence isn't as high with Malkin, with some concerns as to the $ & term and if Malkin will take reduced salary, and others inside the organization not ready to commit to him with his condition, as one team source described Malkin as "He's really beat us." Malkin's agent supposedly is going to ask for a 3 year extension.

--TIOPS mentions that Guentzel has a partial NTC that kicks in July 1st 2022. Expect Hextall to listen to gauge interest. Concern from some team sources about how the Islanders game planned to physically pound the weakest link of the Crosby line, Guentzel, and how the line became ineffective and inconsistent as the Islanders successfully ran their game plan. Penguins aren't actively wanting to move Guentzel, but they do want to gauge interest and possible return because they know he is likely the piece that they can get the most return.

--TIOPS says Penguins are going 7-3-1 on the expansion draft, and Hextall almost certainly will not give up a draft pick to protect anyone. Says Penguins like the 2022 draft and are actually expected to try and acquire more 2022 draft picks over the next year.”

Outside of Jarry getting ice cold, I would agree that the team didn't have many weaknesses when you looked at how they played from the TDL to the playoffs. It just came down to individual players playing. Extending Carter though? I mean...maybe. I wouldn't say no but if he wants to do a 1-2 at a $3mil or so to extend his time, that would be fine.

I don't see anything wrong with 3 year extensions. I have to wonder what Malkin could reasonably be expecting though. $9.5mil? Lolz. $7.1 would be about right. I just don't know what he wants. If he's demanding $10.5mil, I think you have to part ways. Kinda the same with Letang, I think the numbers will be close but at his age, what team is throwing him THAT much more money to make it worth leaving?

Fair assessment on Guentzel but in 2018 he ruled so...I think its more about the opponent. If he struggles in the way he does, what value are you getting from a playoff hopeful team that makes the trade worth it? I don't see any upside to trading him unless it's another big time name.

I think we have a good 3-4 players that could go out for picks - Pettersson, Bleuger, ZAR, Riikola, Rudwedel...long shots like Marino and Matheson. Lots of ways to get some picks.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Rossi says before the injury Malkin was discussing a 3 year, 6M AAV. Pre-injury that seems low to me, but I don't know where people are getting 10.5M or Ovechkin money either. I really believe J.P. Barry would have to be on something strong to think anyone is going to pay Malkin that now. Not after this. I don't think he's that crazy. I also would be shocked to see the team commit to Malkin before seeing him skate. There's no rush. You also don't want to wait too long because if he comes back gangbusters like 2012, his value goes up again.

Letang is far more likely to get the higher number and potentially price himself out of Pittsburgh IMO.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Also, people are really down on Jake and you can't be happy with his performance. But not enough being said about how comfortable and content Rust has played the last few playoffs and two of the last three regular seasons. I'm not sure the fire is there anymore and if you're that small and not bringing passion and guts to the ice it's probably time to move on considering what Hextall and Burke are trying to do here.

I'd have a lot more confidence in Guentzel's ability to bulk up a little. He's got plenty of height, just needs to hit the weight room and he can still be an elite scorer. I'd hesitate to part ways unless we are really getting something back that's going to be impactful right away.

 

[Pens x]

Rust puts up solid numbers and is a pretty decent two-way guy but he's been a ghost in the playoffs for 4 years in a row now.

Sully has made many offensive players into playoff ghosts. If we are going to ship out everyone that has struggled under Sully as of late, we won’t have a team.

JaCK AdAmS

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sully has made many offensive players into playoff ghosts. If we are going to ship out everyone that has struggled under Sully as of late, we won’t have a team.

JaCK AdAmS

Sully sucks, but he's not responsible for Jake having the build and temperament of a teenager, or Sid forsaking all of his offensive ability for a purely defensive style, or Rust ghosting 4 years in a row, etc.

By all means, move on to another coach. I'd have done it after the last Isles series, and there's no way he should've made it past the Habs series where his JJ-Schultz usage almost singlehandedly torpedoed this team.

At some point, the players on the ice have to be held accountable. I think 3 straight underwhelming or miserable performances, 4 for some guys, is enough to hold them accountable. But people have a lot of trouble admitting Sid can't do it alone offensively in the playoffs anymore, or that Jake may be damaged goods and he's not the same Jake he was in 2017 and 2018, or that Rust was never really a big playoff producer but instead had clutch goals and solid two-way play--neither of which he has done for years now.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Jake Guentzel was on fire until his shoulder injury and hasn’t been the same since. If he can get stronger and come back next season he can still be great here. I do think it’s time to move on from Rust.

 

[Fordy]

Rossi says before the injury Malkin was discussing a 3 year, 6M AAV. Pre-injury that seems low to me, but I don't know where people are getting 10.5M or Ovechkin money either. I really believe J.P. Barry would have to be on something strong to think anyone is going to pay Malkin that now. Not after this. I don't think he's that crazy. I also would be shocked to see the team commit to Malkin before seeing him skate. There's no rush. You also don't want to wait too long because if he comes back gangbusters like 2012, his value goes up again.

Letang is far more likely to get the higher number and potentially price himself out of Pittsburgh IMO.

you know where they're getting it. they've decided they don't like malkin anymore so they work backwards and declare he wants 100 million dollars to justify it

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we could be playing a dangerous game re: Jake, tbh. You run the risk of him losing a pretty hefty amount of his value if/when he struggles again next spring in the playoffs, or if he takes another bad hit and hurts his already bum shoulder. Especially now that the league saw the Isles play him physically and how badly he deviated from his game. Everybody's gonna be gunning for Jake all season/playoffs now.

I'm not saying dump the guy for peanuts or anything like that, but I'd be really aggressive this summer in looking for a trade that made sense. If it's out there, don't hesitate to pull the trigger.

(I know we're not moving Jake. We're not doing anything of substance. Everything's peachy! From Sully, to the forwards, to the goalie situation. )

 

[Gurglesons]

Jake Guentzel was on fire until his shoulder injury and hasn’t been the same since. If he can get stronger and come back next season he can still be great here. I do think it’s time to move on from Rust.

I think the myth of Jake Guentzel not being the same is greatly exaggerated.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I bet you just can't wait to say 'I told you so' every time Palmeiri scores for the Islanders.

I really can't.

 

[Gurglesons]

I really can't.

Get it while you can, right?

 

[Darren McCord]

I think the myth of Jake Guentzel not being the same is greatly exaggerated.

Meh its a little exaggerated. But he looks defeated out there. He gets man handled and just doesn't have the same energy. Idk if the injury or what but he is definitely not the same player he was in 17 and 18

He went from an energetic kid to a cranky old man fast.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Get it while you can, right?

Hey, one run like this from a rental is worth quite a bit.