Randy Butternubs
Registered User
New thread was needed.
Yeah, pretty much. They're happy with the team riding it out and making the playoffs for that revenue, but I don't think Mario is in Hextall's ear saying "Gotta get one more Cup!" or anything.
They don't if they only play two games for 5000 people that's for sure.
Did people really think Hextall was going to say, "Yeah, this team sucks. We're going to make a bunch of moves."
The guy plays things close to the vest. If the market sucks and there aren't moves to be made, he can point to the belief that a healthier team and some self-improvement might lead to better results.
And if the market bears out some ways to improve and make some moves, he's left the door wide open to say, "We liked where we were but we think this helps us get even better," just like they did with the Carter trade.
Past time for a new thread? Does one just do it and ask a mod to close this one?
In any event, I start from the premises of and conclusions from said premises:
- The Pens finished first last year
- They haven’t had playoff success for three years, however Goaltending explains this year and COVID may explain last year. Conclusion—they are close to contending.
- Jarry was an all-star last year. So what, but definitely don’t have to move him.
- One of Matheson/Pettersson has to go. Probably not until after the expansion draft.
- Keep Freddy for new C on BART, make Teddy/Carter the basis of 3rd line.
- Angello and especially Zohorna have earned a shot at being regulars. I think Zoho has the better chance since we are going to be down LWs, see below.
- Protect Carter and Teddy which means expose Zucker and McCann which means trade McCann for futures or as part of a bigger hockey trade before expansion draft instead of losing to Seattle.
- Seattle’s choice is between Zucker/Matheson. They choose Zucker.
- If Zucker and McCann are gone then need to re-sign ZAR. Zohorna draws into lineup. NEED—top9 LW.
- NEED Bottom pairing RD. Re-sign Ceci if deal is short and reasonable.
- NEED—1A/1B goalie to compete with Jarry and DeSmith. I’d like Grubauer or Gibson. Pipe dreams. Raanta is good and would be cheap.
I don't think Hextall's being anything but entirely sincere, tbh. The FO and owners are either totally happy with the team and think it came down to a bounce here or there, or they're just gonna let the chips fall however they may before blowing it up next summer with like half the roster up for new contracts.
I have to wonder a little bit where ownership's minds are, these days. They are very quiet. Which is good... don't mistake me.
They were on the verge of selling directly prior to the B2B IIRC. And Burkle strikes me as someone who uh.. maybe wants to fade even more into the background soon.
I didn't expect it, but I had some hope they'd fire Sullivan.
I don't think ownership cares much about anything but season ticket and jersey sales anymore. Mario, being a former player, probably wants the big three to retire here if at all possible. Burkle's off doing pedo-adjacent billionaire stuff and couldn't give a shit less how the team on the ice is doing, most likely.
I just kinda figure maybe Burkle would want to retire to his new ranch is all.
Shouldn’t matter, how many times did the Bolts and Caps win their divisions and it led to nothing?
Funny, so the top line being absolutely impotent and the lack of changes didn’t enter into your reasoning for why this team failed? Because against the Isles x 2 and Habs, this top line was shit offensively. Goaltending being the one thing people keep bringing up is a bit of a joke. Jarry didn’t perform, but the offense also didn’t come from Crosby, Rust, and Guentzel as it should have.
Btw, it’s 4 years of shit.
Lost to the Caps in the 2nd round, Trotz officially enters the psyche of Sullivan.
Islanders sweep the Pens.
Habs beat the Pens in the play-in, the Pens didn’t even freaking make it to the proper playoffs, that’s how idiotic this coaching staff and that top line was for help, but we all blamed Murray.
Islanders beat the Pens again, top line does a no show for 3rd straight year, but here we are again, blaming a goalie only.
Not a lot of teams will move goalies, this was a year of trends that were down for a lot of goalies, statistically the save percentage has not been this low in 16 seasons. Context is something that is insanely lost on this fan base.
I mean it’s 100% obvious Pettersson has to go, his style of play is not conducive to the style the Pens should be playing to win. He’s bland offensively, defensively he has no physicality to stand the grind in the playoffs and bigger players for a player his size.
There’s a reason teams that Freddie played for, didn’t keep him around, he’s not a regular, he’s good for those short burts, he’s a player you replace Sceviour with on the depth chart. I would never make him a regular on this roster, if he is, we’re already f***ed even more.
They should have had a chance in the playoffs to be honest, the coach almost refuses to use them or something…oh wait he does. Both players should have had far more opportunities than they did this season and neither are that young so you need to cultivate that now or allow the ignorance of this coach to ruin them and they f*** off to another team.
I would trade Zucker, expose McCann and keep Carter and Blueger.
Penguins should be moving Zucker if they can, this summer. It’s clear he doesn’t fit in whatever garbage this system is and the coach literally had him playing on his off wing and didn’t figure out how that wasn’t working for him while Zucker came back from an injury and didn’t quite look the same, but was probably one of the better forwards in the playoffs with throwing his small frame around and actually trying to score. He’s smaller than Jake and was able to take more abuse, but you can’t have Jake and Zucker on this roster and I don’t know if we can have either at this point with the powers in the East having players that can really take it to those type of guys.
Wishful thinking that a rookie would get such an opportunity. You seem to forget Drew O’Connor exists, don’t worry, so did our moron of a coach. Thank god Drew got to play with such insane talents like Mark Jankowski and Colton Sceviour though, proves all you needed to know about him being able to play with talent right?
- I would let Ceci walk and allow some other team to sign him to some multi-year deal, he’ll likely sign with the Seattle team as depth/veteran presence. I would rather see this team go after a more physical 6th/7th RHD that can skate and play a fairly well rounded game.
DeSmith needs to be gone. Jarry is fine as the starter, but you can’t throw the guy there with a goalie that wasn’t even in the NHL last season as the back-up, even he struggled hard down the stretch which people seem to forget about quite decidedly.
Gibson is a pipe dream. The starter for him would be too costly for a team with so few assets like this. Grubauer? Why wouldn’t the Avs try to keep him? Francouz took his job a season ago and then Grubauer just earned it back in a big way, the goalie market for him is going to be high, there’s literally no chance the Pens would be a contender for him with the contract he will get and why would he come into another situation he just left twice for? He went through the same shit in Washington, then in Colorado and now he’s coming in again as a 1A/1B situation? Also, downgrading heavily from a team with a bright future to whatever shit show this is.
He's recruiting... Pool boys.
For laughs...latest TIOPS...summary from
another poster...
“Says Hextall and Burke wanted to get it out there quickly that Sullivan's job was safe, as they were starting to hear some noise about his job out there. Says they didn't see much in terms of Sullivan losing his voice to think they needed to make a change. Said that there will likely be some discussions soon, though, on potential philosophical differences around playing heavy.
Says the salary cap is expected to remain flat for the next 3 seasons, and Hextall spent a good part of the season laying groundwork on potential deals to move one or two sizeable contracts with term this offseason. (TIOPS didn't name names, but I have to believe Zucker and Pettersson are the two contracts, as he did say its not hard to figure out whose names will be out there in trade talks)
Says there is some buzz around the league that Penguins management is concerned that Crosby wore down the last 3-4 weeks of the season, because he had to do a lot of the boardwork on his line, and this could become an issue as Crosby gets older. TIOPS mentions possibly getting an elite top 9 defensive player on Crosby's line, or, the Hextall/Burke heavy player to help him in that regard.
Says that while FGMJR saw Marino and Guentzel as part of the current and future core, Hextall/Burke may not hold them in the same regard...especially Marino. He then says that Hextall is patient and won't let one bad playoffs make him overreact, but he does expect Hextall to put out a lot of feelers on Guentzel this summer.
Finally, he had some "take the field" questions with an NHL executive, which I guess meant is it something with the Penguins, or something else.
---->Sullivan with the Penguins for 22-23 season, took the field and said Chicago Blackhawks
---->Jarry with the Penguins or the field for 21-22, said Penguins
---->Will Penguins reacquire MAF, said No.
---->Asked if Penguins will go the James Neal route and trade Guentzel for a different type of winger, exec said Guentzel for Tom Wilson (and apparently was not joking)
---->Asked where Rick Tocchet will coach next, and exec said Seattle.
I think it’s cute, downright f***ing adorable that Crosby wants this core to stay together because he thinks they can win again even though the last 3 seasons, the coach has refused to change the lines to spark any sort of offense or change and his line in particular has been a detriment to the Penguins offense in addition to that. You can’t have 3 talents not performing on a single line, you either split that and hope all 3 spark changes on different lines or you go down with the ship.
They went down with the ship 3 times.
Malkin and Letang showed up offensively. Malkin’s body is not holding up like it should even in a shortened season he missed significant time and while I got jeers for the notion of moving him to wing, it’s time to move him to wing and lessen the workload for him especially, he can be the LW he’s always needed on his line, the right winger can be Kapanen, which means either you try Carter there or you move Guentzel for a 2C and then move Zucker + McCann to add some winger depth for Sid and the 3rd line for Blueger and Tanev because ZAR belongs on the 4th line and should remain there.
Nah mate with his record, he likes Pool girls. Sketchy with the DOB’s when he hires them though.
I mean it's a dude ranch, right?
Wait that IS what that means isn't it?
The only way Sullivan was going to be fired after guiding this team to a division title was if it was completely lifeless in the first round.
It wasn't. In fact, they played exceptionally hard and deserved to win. The play of one important position sabotaged their results.
Everyone can grumble about line combos or systems, but the truth is the Penguins win that series in 5 games if they have even league average goaltending. That's the bottom line, and that doesn't get coaches fired.
Man, it bums me out to see the pandemic take out so many great businesses and TOIPS is still somehow going.
The COVID excuse is so weak to try to defend this team for last season. Every team had to deal with it.
The only weaker argument I’ve seen on this site than giving the team a free pass for the habs series is those that defend Jarry since he was named to the all star team. They always forget that he was an alternate because of injuries. But the hE’s aN aLL StAr argument is amusing.
How are we close to contending when we can’t make it past the first round???
No one would take Matheson off our hands without a huge overpayment by us.
I really have no desire to protect Blueger anymore. With Carter here, Blueger is firmly our 4C for at least another season. We have big Z in the minors as well.
Except that the jackass head coach never even tried the back up goalie. Not sitting Jarry was a colossal mistake. Not pulling him after any of those goals in game 6 was comical.
Allowing turd Jarry to lose one game after another, and doing absolutely nothing about it, was unacceptable. You can’t just point blame at Jarry without asking well what did the coaches do about his poor play for the entire series? If the answer is nothing, that’s a shitty coach, and the coach should shoulder blame as well.
Don't forget that Sullivan was working with a whole new staff this year and that's just such a huge adjustment for our big special boy, too. If we're looking for more hollow excuses to help with the hand-waving.
If we make it through the off-season with minimal changes, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me ownership gives a shit or considers the window to be open anymore.
If we were a year or two removed from the Cup, sure. But the core's 35 and we're four consecutive seasons of 1st or 2nd round exits deep. Maybe, uh, try to do something.
Add but there were no fans as well. Sully needs inspiration from the crowd to resemble a head coach. Maybe that explains why he hasn’t coached in the playoffs in 2 years.
Can someone please explain to me how taking a direct hit to the knee from a 6 foot 6 240lb hockey player is a sign that Malkin isn't holding up how he should? He's not wearing down. He took a catastrophic hit to the knee.
He also put up 5 points in 4 games so who gives a shit.
Can’t wait to see a full season of Zucker-Malkin next year!!
I have stronger faith in Tristan Jarry bouncing back than I do in putting Maxime Friggin Legace in net during a playoff game.
If DeSmith was available, it would have been a different story.
Why? From their point of view, he guided them to first despite a bunch of injuries, and the team lost in the playoffs largely due to horrible goaltending.
Which is why I'm kind of disappointed that it sounds like a]Jarry is going to be the starter next year and b]minimal changes. I just don't see how this team makes any noise with Jarry in nets and with pretty much the same roster (minus the expansion draft loss) returning.
I was kind of hoping Hextall/Burke would put their own stamp on the team, not just continuing to trot out Rutherford's team.
Because we have a team that is supposedly "win now" and has done anything but.
Pens media (Borque, Steigerwald, Errey, Savran, Madden, Kovacevic) are all behind the idea of trading Malkin (DK says don't break up the core now but that's just because he's reading the tea leaves this year IMO, he changed his tune). A month ago Errey is saying on Pens broadcasts that the Pens need Malkin to win the Stanley Cup. I feel like this guy's been traded in the media every season since 2008. I wouldn't blame him for wanting out if that's what he chooses. Pens don't win any of their Cups without him, and in several years don't make the playoffs without him. Did that suddenly change this year or did I miss something?
They're sooooo dreamy out there. As in like a "smoked 10 pounds of dirtweed and huffed a bunch of gasoline fever dream" kinda dreamy.
Hey I bet somebody has charts that say they're fantastic, though. We love charts. Where's the friggin charts?
They weren't. Zucker was bad on the charts.
I'm not saying *I* don't agree with you. I'm saying from Hextall/Burke's perspective, why would you think they'd fire Sullivan after the season he had? It's clear they believe that it was *only* questionable goaltending that cost them the first round series, not anything Sullivan did.
But that's why I said, if that's the case, then I'm annoyed by the fact it sounds like they want to keep Jarry as the starter and want to keep the same roster (minus who we lose in the ED) for next year.
Either the coach needed to be changed or the roster needed to be overhauled. Doing neither is the part I find weird.
Unpossible! He was playing such a big role with a guy that he had zero chemistry with and who had just returned from injury in the most crucial part of the year! And after being consistently bumped down the lineup due to poor play ahead of that. SURELY there was some justification?!?
Nah man I think you need to look at more charts. This coach is very smart and very right, after all.
We could do much worse than the Zucker we saw in the final two games of the season.
..And we will. We'll get the Zucker we saw for the previous 60.
If Sullivan comes back with GCR and Zucker and Kapanen with Malkin next year I may just not watch.
Maybe Malkin is requesting Zucker.
People assume that Crosby plays with who he does because he tells the coach who to play with him, so maybe we should make the same assumption when the same guy keeps being put next to Malkin.
Yeah, I guess that part is bizarre.
lol... of course the local dolts are behind the trade Malkin idea... they're a bunch of lapdog cowards with zero original ideas. Plus what else are they going to talk about? Analyzing this team too deeply and talking about it on air might get their press passes revoked!
Better to just stir the same idiotic pot they have been for 10+ years.
I’m not going to worry too much about who is or isn’t on the roster until after the ED.
Except anyone advocating for trading Malkin is probably an idiot.
Ha... for the record I never thought that.
And frankly if that is the case than Sullivan is an even bigger weakling than I assumed.
How did you have ANY faith left in Jarry to even play in that game? Legace might have played as poorly, but for Christ sake, try something else. Line one sucked, our goalie sucked, but nothing was done about it.
Make some god damn adjustments. Sully game planned for this series in February and never deviated from the script until it was too late. I just feel like we went down without a fight.
What is the fascination with Teddy Blueger? Why are we 'protecting' him?
I gotta agree with others. Mario and Burkle could care less about Cups anymore. They care about their 'sellout streak' and selling stupid looking jerseys. Mario embarrassed himself years ago with his crybaby letter to the league about other teams playing too rough. Since that did absolutely nothing to change the league, and his teams and coaches have gotten softer each year, he obviously is out of touch with reality.
Yeah, I wish Lemieux would've taken a different path after that letter.
Hated winning two cups while watching Crosby get CROSSCHECKED.
Yeah, I got no attachment to TB. He's probably capable of being the 3C long term, but by the time Carter's outta here, it's not gonna matter. Hell, if we're sticking with McCann, he's probably the 3C if they ever want to play him where he's said he feels most comfortable.
Sullivan's posture in the post season reminds me of that Joel Haver bit. Here I'll just link it because it's pretty funny regardless:
